organization to help Northern Pike fishery

[AWH]

Muskies have been speared out of existence on Grace Lake? Since when? I've seen a couple this summer, and I've only been on Grace three times. And what alleged spearers admit to spearing muskies? I gotta call [PoorWordUsage] on that.

Perhaps "next to nothing" would have been a better way to put it. It would be hard to take every last one of any species out of a lake. For starters, talk to the vocal members of CLIFFS that were at the Cass Lake meeting in February. I stayed after the meeting for several hours talking to those folks. When they realize you aren't "out to get them" like many of the paranoid people here believe, let's just say that they aren't shy about telling you what happens or what has happened up there. Talk to Gary Barnard with the DNR up there to ask him about what happened to the musky population on Grace. I wouldn't expect you or anyone else to take someone's word as gospel on an internet message board. A little research will yield the facts.

Aaron

[foulpole18]

Muskies fisherman have about 120 lakes right Merk? And spearfisherman have roughly 3000. What seems to be the problem? Now I know you will pull your standard acerage spiel. I think that the minority has a much better deal here. Way more lakes to go to instead of piling onto the 120.

Not everyone is out to get you. The way you keep beating the same drum rubs people the wrong way and doesn't make spearing look all that favorable.

[jeffreyd]

Merk here are just a few of the places that you can get to help you with the overall ban of sportfishing in MN. You should know they would jump at the chance to help you out.

http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/

www.peta.org

www.ahs.org

www.sierraclub.org

[Esox_Magnum]

Merc you don't have a clue on what the MI groups do for all fishing not just muskies. I to am a board member of a Muskies Inc chapter and we do many things that are general fishing and kids related. While I'm not a MN MI member I'd be willing to bet the MN MI chapters do more for the future of Pike than the Dark House ever will.

[merkman]

we do many things that are general fishing and kids related.

Yes Esox,

As I have said here many times muskies Inc does many good things for the resource. Promoting bans on fellow sportsmen is not one of them.

[merkman]

Merk here are just a few of the places that you can get to help you with the overall ban of sportfishing in MN. You should know they would jump at the chance to help you out.

The point is... we are doing a fine job of that by ourselves without their help.

[Shawn Kellett]

"Spear-fisherman are already not allowed to harvest sunny, crappie, bass, muskie, trout, etc, so let's have a little compromise and not allow anglers to harvest Pike. It would be what's best for the resource."

The only reason why pike are allowed to be speared is because a special interest group back in the early 1900's lobbied the legislature to classify pike as a rough fish and therefore able to be taken by spear. The very next year it was repealed, but the spearing of pike was grandfathered in.

Also Merk, before you beat your drum too loud about "bans" you should do your homework. Originally spearing was banned on ALL but around 20 lakes in the state. At that time they did such damage to the pike populations in those lakes that the only way the DNR could relieve the pressure was to increase the number of lakes to disperse it.

I personally think the bowfishermen should be up in arms that they aren't allowed to shoot pike. Maybe they're too smart to open up that can of worms...

Funny, no response on this one...

[reinhard1]

i will give you one. i agree with that post. northern pike are not rough fish and should not be singled out as one. however since it is leagal to spear pike i would only advocate spearing pike under the current laws. with one exception. i just dont know how a person that spears pike can determine pike within the slot. therfore spearing should not be allowed in pike lakes that have slot limits on them. fisherman with rod and reel have to abide by the laws and so should people that spear pike. using a rod and reel in most cases you can release a pike outside the slot, with a spear you cant. does it seem unfair. perhapst, but there are many lakes you can spear pike without slot limits. it comes down to, do you want to harvest smaller pike for the table or do you want to spear anything that swims which is also leagal in non slot lakes that do not have special regs. here is a question. i personaly do not spear and do not approve of it other than rough fish..haveing said that if those who spear if pike are good enough why not the rest of all the game fish? my answer to that is it would never happen. politicians dont have the gutts nor would they think it would be a good idea. spear a bass, get real. walley on a stick anyone, of course not. but for some reason pike are not in that catigory for some. just my opinion. good luck.

[merkman]

Sounds great reinhard1

As soon as it is possible to catch and release without killing slot limit fish I will agree. Until then, what's good for the goose don't seem to be good for the gander.

It is almost as though some people feel that slot limits were created before fishing. I hate to break it to you but hook and line fishing and darkhouse spearing were around way before the laws and rules of slot limits were put in place.

Darkhouse spearing and hook and line are two legal methods for harvesting pike. Peer reviewed study after peer reviewed study shows that darkhouse spearers do not harvest more big medium or small northern pike than hook and liners. Infact these studies show that darkhouse spearers harvest northern pike at rates similar to hook and liners targeting northern pike. Since hook and liners outnumber darkhouse spearers it is not hard to figure out who takes more fish. If you somehow feel it is more ethical to fillet a northern alive with a knife than it is to stick it with a spear, I simply can't relate. If you are against all harvest then I can understand your point.

So now I spend my winters in 6 to 8 FOW passing on all other game fish except the occasional northern pike. Ban me from spearing and I will be set up with all the other crazies on the walleye and/or panfish holes.

I hate to think of the day when deer hunters are regarded as lowly as some regard darkhouse spearers or other responsible northern pike harvesters. Lasso and release will be the theme of the day, and then the anti's will be just one step away from taking all hunting and fishing away for good.

We as sportsmen have already allowed the winter catch and release season on muskies to be closed, it won’t be long and the northern pike winter catch and release season will be closed; since it is the only way to enforce the closed winter catch and release season on muskies.

[merkman]

Funny, no response on this one...

Yes there was.

[john skarie]

Merk there are no "peer reviewed studies" as you claim.

You want to find our who kills more big pike? Let's do a survey of taxidermists and see who brings in more pike over 10 lbs, anglers or spearers.

I know what my local taxidermists will say, already had those conversations.

The fact of the matter is preventing people from killing big pike with regs is here to stay. Instead of wasting your life trying to justify your warped point of view why not just be content with what you have, which is thousands of lakes to spear on in MN.

JS

[merkman]

Merk there are no "peer reviewed studies" as you claim.

JS

[Scottie Thomas]

"Peer reviewed study after peer reviewed study shows that darkhouse spearers do not harvest more big medium or small northern pike than hook and liners. Infact these studies show that darkhouse spearers harvest northern pike at rates similar to hook and liners targeting northern pike."

Merkman, would you be kind enough to post a link to one or more of these peer reviewed studies, or tell me how I can find one?

[jeffreyd]

Merk to respond to my earlier post with the list of "greenies' that would be willing to help you, you clearly mistook the comment. The reason for my post was to offer up a list of groups that would help you ban all fishing as we know it. Believe me there are propositions right now that are going to be voted on this year that may force our hands as to if we will legally have a right to fish or not.

Here in AZ, we have a bill that will be voted on tomorrow to make hunting and fishing the legal right of AZ citizens. If you are curious it is bill number 109. You should look at it to see how others at addressing the chance that we never loose our ability to take wildlife.

[john skarie]

I see no reason for a pike tag. Regs as is work just fine, and are doing a good job. Tags would be an enforcement nightmare.

My opinions are based on my education, my experience and sound stats and data.

JS

[merkman]

Merk there are no "peer reviewed studies" as you claim.

JS

[john skarie]

Creel surveys are not peer reviewed studies.

Numbers of pike killed do not reflect sizes of pike killed.

Nobody has ever stated that spearers kill more pike than anglers, so why is that such a hot point for you to dwell on?

You want to look at data that actually means something? Check out the size structure of pike in Lake Sallie and Melissa. They've had slots on them for about 15 years now. Walleyes, panfish, bass and perch all have better healthier size structures.

Local spearers are drooling to get on those lakes to kill some big ones. Biggest pike in the county are in those two lakes now.

Funny how we can clearly show that not killing bigger pike will improve a fishery across the board for all species yet spearers could care less.

Fortunately more people support healthy fisheries and sound management practices than don't.

JS

[cbrooks]

[merkman]

...Sorry guys I may have spoke a little too loosely. That was my fault.

Apology accepted.... I am getting used to it.

[merkman]

Local spearers are drooling to get on those lakes to kill some big ones. Biggest pike in the county are in those two lakes now.

JS

Once again with the assumption that darkhouse spearers are only after large pike.

I would recomend you go brush up on some studies. It is plain as day that the sportsmen (not the method) share the responsibility of the future of nothern pike.

To think that 14 THOUSAND darkhouse spearers fishing the daylight hours of a much shorter season take more small, medium, or large northern pike than 1.4 MILLION anglers fishing 24/7 nearly year round is a stretch... to put it lightly.

Keep ignoring the facts and promoting the Sportsman vs Sportsman hatred John, it's the only thing you have to prove your point.

As always promote look and release and catch and release. Let the big ones go and harvest the smaller tastier less polluted ones.

If the plan is to ban the darkhouse spearing method, then what method will be next?

It is clear that you have your views and I have mine.

It appears no amount of discussion will change that.

So I respectfully ask that we agree to disagree.

I'm OK with that.

[thatoneguy]

Mr. Skarie - the problem with that broad brush you like to use is that it almost always gets paint where it doesn't belong.

I've speared for almost 20 years, and I've never taken a pike bigger than 28-30". Most of the northerns I spear are 23-26". Care to know why? Because I just enjoy *watching* the big girls, and I only take the smaller ones to eat.

Guess what - pretty much all the spearers I know care just as much about the fishery as you. Be careful up on that high horse...you might fall off and bump your head.

[walleye101]

After 260 some posts on this topic one thing should be clear. There are differing opinions on how northern pike should be managed.

Some advocate for regulations to protect pike so the quality size potential of pike populations can be restored and maintained. To be effective quality management has to impact harvest by requiring people to release or pass on sizes they would like to keep.

Others want to maintain the opportunity for sustainable harvest of some decent sized pike. Any significant harvest of desirable sized pike is going to effect quality.

Maybe it is time to stop arguing over who is right and admit that neither objective is wrong, but not realistic to think we can meet both objectives on the same waters. It would be much more productive to shift the discussion to how to allocate existing resources (lakes) to provide a fair and reasonable distribution of both types of fishing opportunities.

[Acemac]

Why is the walleye limit 6....

[reinhard1]

arn't there already over 3000 lakes a person can spear on and only a few you cant? whether spearing or rod and reel one pike over 30in statewide per year no slots. just throwing it out there. while i choose not to spear, as long as it is leagal i would think this would be fair. how then to enforce that? i think most fisherman are honorable if not thats what the tip line is for. good luck.

[merkman]

arn't there already over 3000 lakes a person can spear on and only a few you cant? whether spearing or rod and reel one pike over 30in statewide per year no slots. just throwing it out there. while i choose not to spear, as long as it is leagal i would think this would be fair. how then to enforce that? i think most fisherman are honorable if not thats what the tip line is for. good luck.

If you feel that is fair than work to flip it around.

Ban hook and line angling from 26 lakes in Minnesota for no reason; if it really does not matter to you. You will have plenty of places to go.

But once again don't expect me not to fight the angling or darkhouse spearing bans. I don't care if the unjustified ban is directly from PETA or from fellow sportsmen it is wrong either way.