Trading or releasing T-Jack by Friday?

[LMITOUT]

Thanks Shack for proving my point.

There should be no arguing which of the two mediocre cars are best when you should be looking, at minimum, at mid-priced cars. Squabbling about Escorts, Chevettes, K-Cars, etc trying to decide which one has the most potential is why the Vikings are who we thought they are....mediocre. Set your sights at something a little better for once instead of settling for the garbage.

[Shack]

All i can say is the last couple of seasons i have shut the tv off alot of times when the vikings were playing.Quess why?????

I have been shutting the TV more than I ever thought since about 2001-02

The last year was the worst. When they brought in Gus, I knew the season was not going to turn. If anything karma , but most of all I think it threw the offensive of line for a loop, one which they never could recover?

[Shack]

Thanks Shack for proving my point.

There should be no arguing which of the two mediocre cars are best when you should be looking, at minimum, at mid-priced cars. Squabbling about Escorts, Chevettes, K-Cars, etc trying to decide which one has the most potential is why the Vikings are who we thought they are....mediocre. Set your sights at something a little better for once instead of settling for the garbage.

Yep, even though the Escort was not garbage, it was never even close to a Mustang like Favre! They did try and is was some what better when they came out with the ZX2

I also agree. Looking back now, this argument about our second and third string is pretty funny. If Favre does go down and is taken off in a stretcher, I think ice fishing will take precedence no matter who 2nd string is given to. I like Jackson, but he has just gone threw so much drama, I think at this point even I would say screw it and start over. I do think when it comes down to it, the majority of Vikings fans like Jackson and would like to see him benefit from the time spent at Winter park and on the side line with Favre. Sad part is this might benefit another team come next year?

[LMITOUT]

Once again, you prove my point.

ROFL. What point am I proving for you?? I've already told you Jackson is a dud and his performance shows that and you can see by his play that he's never going to overcome the level that he's at. He's at the point of diminishing returns and has plateaued as a player.

So Jackson is going to just magically keep improving year after year until he's Joe Montana? Is that what you're saying? Because if you are, you've lost what ever credibility as a football fan you had left. You act like you can take a player, keep working with him and giving him more chances than any player in history, and he'll continue to get better and sky is the limit. Reality check, doesn't work that way.

Get your head out of the sand and realize that he ain't going to be no Joe Montana no matter how many years you give him. EVER. I'll go back to what I said earlier that he doesn't have "it". Some players do, some don't. He don't. No matter how much time you give him, he can't overcome the fact that he doesn't have "it". Either you're born with the talent or you're not. Do all horses make it to the Kentucky Derby? Based on what you've said, with enough work any ol' horse could line up and run. HA!!

How can you just write off or ignore his past performance and then say he has a future. There are no mulligans in football. You don't get do-overs as if the past didn't happen. Do you think that the light switch is going to flip and he's magically going to be a top tier QB? I mean, come on!

[Shack]

The Ford Escort ZX2 did have some power though

Then just a little time, patience, money, blood, sweat and a few tears, they can become a mean contender against anything thrown at them :

[AWH]

What point are you proving for me? That you aren't objective. That's actually been a very easy point to prove. Especially when you can't tell me how your view is objective and you continue to prvide more opinions to back up your lack of objectivity. When you present opinions as facts, this is about as far from objective as you can get.

Now I am comparing T-Jack to Joe Montana? Wow! At least you aren't trying to stretch what's being said, are you? I have never said he will be one of the best QBs in the game. Obviously there is a level of play that he will reach where the continued improvement will level off and that will be no where near the Joe Montana level unless he shocks us all. But when he shows clear signs of continued improvement, why are you so quick to conclude that improvement will not continue? You aren't going to go from bad to good overnight. It's called progression. Progression takes time and there will be bumps in the road. And yes, I am saying he was a bad NFL QB when he first came in the league. Why would we have expected any less considering where he came from?

He was even labeled as a "project" when he was drafted. Projects generally are not a 2 or 3 year period of development. They're called projects for a reason. It would be great if T-Jack's progression was a quick one. But it's not realistic to expect that given all the facts of his situation.

Anyone that gets paid to evaluate NFL players will tell you that there HAS been progression with T-Jack's play. Saying otherwise is ignorance, denial, or someone that has simply not been paying attention to his play on the field.

Per your last post, we can see why the opinions are so different. T-Jack supporters have seen continued improvement out of the guy. You are seeing a guy that is getting worse. (Diminishing returns were your words). If that's what you are actually seeing, then it's completely understandable why you have the stance that you do. I'm not sure what games you've been watching to think that. But either way, it explains your views, if in fact this is really what you've seen.

The "it" factor. Rich Gannon didn't have the "it" factor until his 12th year in the league. Or did you see "it" in Gannon in his first 10 years in the league? I'm sure there is no one that was able to predict how his career would turn and how he would end up. "It" can take time.

Because T-Jack might not have "it" this year doesn't mean he never will. If it's going to take 12 years, I would agree that it's not worth it. The point is that it doesn't happen over night for everyone. But when you aren't objective, you can't see "it".

Would you like to know what my actual feelings are on T-Jack and what I think of his future? I believe he has all the ability to be a very good (don't read into that to say Joe Montana!) NFL QB for many years. However, I believe he lacks some of the intangibles that would make him a good fit just anywhere. You can point to all kinds of situations in NFL history where some very good NFL players have moved around and finally found the right fit to where they were able to thrive. I believe Jackson is that kind of player. Is the Vikings system one where he can be successful? At this point, I'm not sold on that. Do I believe that it could be? Yes. But I can't say that for sure.

I can even understand why the T-Jack haters believe he will never amount to anything in the league. I can see the player that those eyes are seeing. But I am also able to see more than that. The fact that most of these views (of the T-Jack haters) are not objective ones when it comes to his future and aren't able to look at the situation with an open mind is the reason I will push so hard in the other direction. Fans are known for having knee jerk reactions. Knee jerk reactions are not objective. This is more than a knee jerk reaction to T-Jack, as we've seen him for more than just a few games. But an initial knee jerk reaction (if not proven otherwise quickly) will lead to the lack of objectivy we see through out this thread. It's simply how people function.

If great QBs were easy to come by I would have no problem cutting ties with Jackson. But look at what's out there. How many top caliber QBs are out there? Other than Daunte, when was the last time the Vikings had a QB that they were able to plug in as even the clear starter on the team for more than 2 or 3 years, let alone one of the better QBs in the game? If we were to cut ties with Jackson (forget about your opinions of T-Jack when answering this), do the Vikings want to go back to what they have done for the last 15+ years just finding a serviceable (and questionable at that sometimes) QB to fill the gap until they bring in the next guy to do the same thing? I'd much rather have T-Jack than any of the guys they've been putting out there since Culpepper.

So my actual stance? It's more in support of not cutting ties with T-Jack than it is in full support of what the guy's future will bring. Yes, I believe he could potentially have a bright future. But the objective jury is still out on what his career will amount to. If they had a guy in place where we could be confident that this guy was going to be the future, parting ways with Jackson and riding Sage as your backup would be the smart move in my opinion. But the Vikings aren't in that situation.

Is it impossible to think that T-Jack could have a good NFL career? An objective person will tell you - no, it's not impossible. Are you objective or are you close minded when it comes to T-Jack?

Aaron

[FISHINGURU]

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWNS

i'm done with the junkson and sage talk...no need talking about back up QB's unless our starter is hurt....it will only be a fun debate again if favre goes down...and i hope he doesn't because he's a far better qb then either of them even at the age of 40.

it was fun at first when they were fighting to be starter, and it was even kinda fun during preseason because we got to see them play...but i'll be happy if i don't see sage or junkson on the field for another year.

[LMITOUT]

Just for fun, remember these are FACTS.....against the best QB in the NFL today. And I know the first thing you will spout off about is the yards, but let me remind you, unless you forgot that the Vikes are a run first offense. I know most can comprehend that, but if you look at the yards per catch is .1 off.

Peyton Manning after his first 19 NFL starts:

394/692 56.9% 4,650 yards 6.7 avg 33 TDs 33 INTs 73.55 QB rating.

Tarvaris Jackson's career stats (after 19 NFL starts):

306/524 58.4% 3,442 yards 6.6 avg 20 TDs 18 INTs 76.5 QB rating.

If we're going to throw around stats lets at least get them correct.

The stats you posted for T-Jack are his career stats (25 games, not 19).

So to be fair to Peyton, here are his stats for the first 25 games which are far superior to you-know-who.

512/886 57.8% 6258 yards, 43 TDs, 38 INTS.

[MuleShack]

Jackson and favre will now be able to share each others wisdom of the game and learn from each other!

I'm sure this would be a one sided conversation...

Couldn't pass it up.

[MuleShack]

Minnesota

Vikings Colt Anderson S practice squad addition

Minnesota

Vikings John David Booty QB practice squad addition

Minnesota

Vikings Ian Johnson RB practice squad addition

Minnesota

Vikings Garrett Mills TE practice squad addition

Booty's Back

Booty's Back

Booty's Back

Ladies and Gentlemen We Got 'em.

Looks like we got our 5th string running back also.

Oh No, Brooks Bollinger was cut by the Lions

[gr8icefishinmind]

Originally Posted By: gr8icefishinmind

Jackson and favre will now be able to share each others wisdom of the game and learn from each other!

I'm sure this would be a one sided conversation...

Couldn't pass it up.

Well of course it would be one sided.......that's pretty obvious!!

[fishorgolf]

Like I said, these are facts. And you are delusional if you think this is any way twisted. These are there first 19 games started. It is not my fault you are tied up in your hate for TJ. fishorgolf in case you didnt know there 16 games in a season.

shack I get a kick out of the rosencopter/predator spoof on youtube. "Get to the choppa"

Hey there partner. Were have I ever expressed any hate for TJ? I think that "someday" he could develop into a true starter but do not think he has proved that to this date.

[PierBridge]

536 post and over 10,000 views!

Well done FISHGURU and mates!...

[Rick]

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWNS

i'm done with the junkson and sage talk...no need talking about back up QB's unless our starter is hurt....it will only be a fun debate again if favre goes down...and i hope he doesn't because he's a far better qb then either of them even at the age of 40.

it was fun at first when they were fighting to be starter, and it was even kinda fun during preseason because we got to see them play...but i'll be happy if i don't see sage or junkson on the field for another year.

AFTER you eat a little CROW I'm sure you want to leave this subject...aren't you the guru who started this thread saying or hinting T-Jack was going to be cut because he was worthless......I think you were WRONG - AGAIN!!!!

[Rick]

LMITOUT talking about his beloved packers:

Their defense has been absolutely outstanding in preseason, If it carries over into the season they'll be a force to deal with as their offense hasn't lost a step after last year and continue to put up points.

At this point there is no doubt who the best QB is in the NFC North.

leechbait says about the Packs defense

Originally Posted By: leechbait

Yeah they shut out cleveland, but gave up 21 points and 37 points back to back. I wouldn't call that absolutely outstanding

and Here's "jonny to the rescue" - LMIT's statements and answer shows LMITOUT IS a Packer Backer..Note how he uses the "It's pre-season" to defend his beloved packer defense but uses the it's only pre-season to dismiss T-Jacks success,

Originally Posted By: LMITOUT

Gotta look a little deeper than the bottom-line ticker score to get the whole story there bud, especially during preseason.

Notice How the Vikes are now a mediocre team to LMITout...

Originally Posted By: LMITOUT

is why the Vikings are who we thought they are....mediocre.

Spoken like a true Packer Fan LMIT.

[Scott K]

Agreed LMITOUT = Cheesehead

[Born2Fish]

I think someone else has a thing for the Packers themselves....Or why would you keep mentioning all these closet packer fans in basically every thread you create?

[LMITOUT]

Notice How the Vikes are now a mediocre team to LMITout.

Now? I've always thought they were mediocre....and that was when they were at their best!

[PierBridge]

Acually he didn't create the thread so he has created ZERO threads of which you speak!. But if you meant Post I did crunch the numbers and it came out to less then one tenth of one percent of his post that related to closet Packer fans.

We get it you guys are in a BOX and are not going to admit that T-Jack has played better QB for the last year including this pre-season than Sage. T-Jack is playing better and probably is better than Fraid-Often-Falls and to say Sage is clearly better is LUDICROIUS at best.

So take your and ball and go home guys!...

[Rick]

I think someone else has a thing for the Packers themselves....Or why would you keep mentioning all these closet packer fans in basically every thread you create?

Even though your statement is incorrect as is your opinion about T-Jack, I am a True Vikes fan and I guarantee you I don't name call any of them like a Packer backer would. If you name call, I and a number of others may view you as trolling packer backers just like LMIT IS!!!

I don't think T-Jack is all that but I certainly don't think he's been given an honest chance. He may be on par with Sage. Some thought the same of Gannon at one time before we let him go. Another QB with mobility and had trouble reading defenses his first few years. He turned into a pretty good QB.

I do agree with most, that now is not the time to develop a QB, so let's hope Favre can do the job. I also believe Sage is the best one to be the back-up QB if Favre needs to be replaced during a game. I also believe T-Jack should be the go to go if we need someone besides Favre to start games during the season.

GO VIKES!!!!

[LMITOUT]

Rick says: It's OK for Sage to come off the bench, but T-Jack should start if Favre can't.

Say what??

What kind of wishy-washy answer is that?!!!?

And then to say that T-Jack hasn't been given an honest chance? 25 games isn't an honest chance?

You Vikings fans don't know if you're comin' or goin' do you? You guys are something else!

[Born2Fish]

Acually he didn't create the thread so he has created ZERO threads of which you speak!. But if you meant Post I did crunch the numbers and it came out to less then one tenth of one percent of his post that related to closet Packer fans.

We get it you guys are in a BOX and are not going to admit that T-Jack has played better QB for the last year including this pre-season than Sage. T-Jack is playing better and probably is better than Fraid-Often-Falls and to say Sage is clearly better is LUDICROIUS at best.

So take your and ball and go home guys!...

Thanks for correcting me on that one. Though I didn't need the help.

Personally I really could care less about T-Junk. He is a career backup and always will be(yes I am looking into my crystal ball and seeing the future). If eventually one day he turns out to be a starting QB for a team(be it the Vikes or another) I will be the first to admit that I was wrong about the guy. Until that time, I stick by what I say about him. Mediocre at best, at times shows signs of being a GOOD QB, but fails miserably when it really counts(Vikings VS Eagles). But wait it was the atmosphere(playoff game at home), and the defense(lost to a Arizona team we had beaten a few weeks earlier).

[FISHINGURU]

AFTER you eat a little CROW I'm sure you want to leave this subject...aren't you the guru who started this thread saying or hinting T-Jack was going to be cut because he was worthless......I think you were WRONG - AGAIN!!!!

poor ricky...can't come up with any new material...you'll be able to keep up someday!

there is nothing to eat crow about...junkson is a back up qb right now...and thats where he belongs...all the people that aren't junkson fans need to eat some crow because he had some decent preseason stats LMMFAO....we already know you junkson backers are just pullin peoples chains and playing devils advocate.

your guy's gig is up....its obvious your not serious

[Shack]

Well, which Friday is it that T-Rex is supposed to be traded or released? I forget

Being our 3rd backup QB and all

[LMITOUT]

After #4 methodically ran the offense to a large lead, it was free advertising for Chili to put T-Jack out there for scouts to watch. Brilliant, really, to bench Sage this week when a blowout was all but certain and then showcase T-Jack's hand off skills.