Reinventing the wheel

[MinnesnowtaWild]

Oh and switch to Suffix if you don't have it already.

[SteveD]

I watched Dtro set that hook and I was surprised by how the line just snapped - Ping with a capital P is how it sounded. Stop and think about that kind of hookset and all the dynamics at play. The reel drag was cinched down to no slip at all; the line was 80 lb test HiVis Suffic with no stretch at all; the rod was a 9 foot heavy action rod with almost no give in the tip; the fish had taken the bullhead and was swimming away with the clicker singing; dtro engaged the reel, dropped the rod on a tight line to about belly height and snapped that rod straight up to about 12 o'clock - the energy behind that hookset met the energy of a large fish going the opposite direction with a no stretch line that just popped like nothing. Stop and think about that now. The purpose of the hookset is to pull the hook loose from the bait and hopefully prevent the hook from setting back into the baitfish and to drive the hook into the mouth of the fish and past the barb so the hook is set solid and won't come loose.

As an After Action Review of that episode I would offer the following things to consider when planning your next encounter with a big flathead.

#1. If you still want or need to do the big slamming hookset then I would recommend setting the drag on your reel so that it gives well before it reaches the braking tension of the line you are using. I'm saying = Go ahead and do the hookset but incorporate a safety give in your reel to give line before it can break off. That safety net would still plant the hook home but give before your line can break.

#2: At night when I am reeling in my bullhead after deciding to head for home - I will place my rod tip near the water and point the rod back at the bait and just do a quick snap of the rod back upstream. That simple snap of the rod will pull the hook clear of the bullhead almost every single time. If what we are after on the hookset is to get the hook clear of the bait and into the big fish maybe all that is needed for a hookset is a simple snap of the wrist. If your hook is sharp you will have just pulled it clear of the bait and it should sink home. Just be ready to play a monster cat.

#3: Sometimes I think we overestimate the force need to accomplish setting that hook. It is for that very reason that I have gone to circle hooks and don't do a hookset at all but instead gain a good tight line to the fish on the initial pickup and run and then start reeling aggressively to get the hook into the fish. I am using a 2 hook Cat Bait Harness and as dtro can attest - that super sharp Gamakatsu 8/0 circle hook is firmly imbedded in the fish with just reeling to set the hook. In most cases, with the 2 hook rig both hooks get imbedded in the fish.

[DTro]

I am using a 2 hook Cat Bait Harness and as dtro can attest - that super sharp Gamakatsu 8/0 circle hook is firmly imbedded in the fish with just reeling to set the hook. In most cases, with the 2 hook rig both hooks get imbedded in the fish.

Stay tuned for show and tell

[Larry FlatCaster]

This is how I do it.... You can see from the first set that it wasn't enough.... or maybe too much.........

I do back off the drag and you can hear it whiiippppp.... When I go for it.

I still think a short mono leader does help in the way I do it.

[hanson]

Darren-

I do think you are on the right track if you've been snapping line on hooksets. I honestly can't recall the last flathead that did that to me, it was that long ago. (no jokes please ) Its also important to note the rods that I've been using, those MH Reflexes have a lot of give and not a whole lot of backbone either. I believe there is a video floating around that shows what happens when you get a big fish on a soft rod, you have to "Hanson" it. I caught several fish last year where I thought I had snagged bottom. Rather than yanking it loose, I reeled down and slowly pulled and thump, thump. Not much time for a hookset at this point and I did land all those fish.

On a similar note, I tried a few different new rods up on the Rainy for Sturgeon this year. One was a St Croix Classic Cat 8' Heavy, and the other was a Shimano Compre 8' Heavy. Classic Cat is a Graphite/Glass blend and the compre is Graphite. No use elaborating on the Classic Cat, that rod is amazing! However, the Compre was great as well... to a point. Its a rather light rod with great sensitivity from the graphite. But what happened with the Compre might keep me from using one again up there. I did have 2 Sturgeon come unbottoned, I assume I pulled the hook from its lips... errr sucker. Reasoning... 80lb braid on a stiff, stiff rod with not much drag. Then on the last evening I snapped the tip off the rod about 8" down while fighting a fish. When it gets cold, the muskie guys don't even use their graphite anymore and I'm sure the cold had something to do with that rod breaking.

And the quest for the ultimate cat rod continues, eh?

And the Power Pro, I'm safe to keep using it?

[cutter08]

If you think about it we all use no stretch line and some what long rods (7' to 9') Now think about how much slack you can pick up with that length rod and no stretch line with a fish running away from the boat. That is alot of force put on that line. And now you put a swivel with a one or two ft leader on it. That is going to be your weakest point every time. No matter how good or what brand of line you use there will be some minimal stretch to it. So what is going to stretch more the two ft leader or the thirty or forty feet of line behind the leader. I am guilty of trying to stop a big fish dead in its tracks too. haven't broke one off yet. ( just jinkst myself) All we are trying to do is set a half inch of hook past the barb. Is there a need to Grip and rip that hard? I am no pro cat guy. This is only the second year that i have been at it hard. Its just my two cents.

[Gordie]

I think we need Time Warp to check into this to really see what happens on the hook set from the line to the knots and even if possible the fishes mouth. I know that it seems like a lot to ask but that would really let us understand just how the line reacts and it may change the way we do a hook set but you have to factor in the adrenaline rush that the fisherman has that would cause or could cause a lot of varibles in the hook set itself.

with that said each one of us does it differnt no matter how much we try to do it like the other guy tells us to do it. so I think that we just need to find a way that is comfortable for us and use it.

[Shack]

When I think of hook sets I think right away of LFC's video from the Moore's contest

Good video. Just neat to watch.

The name of this thread says it all "Reinventing the wheel"

Why would you want to reinvent the wheel

You would think with all the year vested in this cat forum added up the last thing we would be talking about is hook setting. But we are

My take on this is every hook set is different even when the same rod is used. What I say to do could totally back fire for the next person. Form my many test of trial and error with different hook sets I have just gone back to instinct and what “I” subconsciously want to do. You can sit and rack you brain on what goes on during the hook set. Bait placement, where your rod is placed in the boat (straight back or off to the side) current flow, how the fish comes at your bait, how the fish goes away after the bait is picked up, debris around where the fish picks up your bait, what the fish does after the bait is picked up, how many thumps the fish allows you, right, left or up swing, full pull back start reeling or the give them a straight tip and start reeling, how the moon is aligned with the sun and earth. I could go on and on.

This year I have just given up on loosing sleep over how or what I do when the hook is set. I have found the more I analyze the situation while setting the hook, the more missed fish I come up with. When it happens do what feels right. To be honest with you Dtro if I where you with the fish you have caught "I" would not change a thing. Break offs during the hook set are one thing. That needs to be addressed and fixed. I am all for trying new things but why reinvent the wheel when the one you have has worked so good in the past. IMO just keep on trucking. A hook set is like a pair of shoes. It fits great on some people while it does not fit great on others. We could go into the differences of arm strength, arm length, height, weigh, sitting down, standing up, left side of the boat verses the right side, personal life stress issues, work related stress issues and on and on.

All I know (and learned from Dtro “fishing with confidence thread back in 2007“) is when a hint of doubt occurs when making a quick decision the end result most times is not favorable. Just let your mind do what feels best when it happens. Do not over analyze the situation. Over correction is a killer (IMO).

In the end you win some and you loose some. They key is to keep on trucking. The answer lies within.

Another thought of mine is karma. When I starting thinking something is “easy” and especially when I openly express this to others, it comes back to haunt me tenfold . The flat gods are not happy . I have also become sucker for superstition and rituals for gaining the task at hand .

[Shack]

I think we need Time Warp to check into this to really see what happens on the hook set from the line to the knots and even if possible the fishes mouth. I know that it seems like a lot to ask but that would really let us understand just how the line reacts and it may change the way we do a hook set but you have to factor in the adrenaline rush that the fisherman has that would cause or could cause a lot of varibles in the hook set itself.

with that said each one of us does it differnt no matter how much we try to do it like the other guy tells us to do it. so I think that we just need to find a way that is comfortable for us and use it.

Dang Gordie right on the same wave length I was cooking dinner on the grill and it took me at least 47 minutes to finish my last post You must of dropped yours in the minute I hit respond.

Man it is all we can do!

[hanson]

Bottom line when it comes to hooksets... "feel" for the fish first, then set the hook. In the case of a running fish, take the clicker off, thumb the spool and apply pressure to the spool. He shouldn't drop the bait. You'll feel the rod pump a few times, then lean back firm and swiftly. Hooked up!

I see more fish lost on good &/or screaming clicker runs. What so often happens is you flip the clicker off and then rear back hard, never picking up the slack in the line until you are already in hookset mode. Take the clicker off, thumb the spool a bit until you feel that weight/thump, then set firm. That should be all it takes.

If you never feel that fish, how do you know it was even a bite? Lots of stuff floats in the river and it doesn't take much debris, sticks, logs, etc to give you a "run". If you thumb the spool and feel for the fish, you can tell the difference.

These hooksetting comments are generalizations of what I've noticed over the years and may or may not apply to Darren's initial question. I don't think they do. My general point is don't blindly set the hook because your clicker is going off, feel for that telltale thump/thump first, then set.

[Gordie]

thanks Josh its like my old man said shut up and fish!! so I did just that

[Shack]

Quote:

My general point is don't blindly set the hook because your clicker is going off, feel for that telltale thump/thump first, then set.

Ah! Another question that drives me nuts Do you just set the hook on anything or do you wait to feel for that last thump that never comes

I know guys who get fish just by setting the hook on anything and not missing out. I also know guys who wait, let the clicker go, read the thumps and they get fish. Give them slack works for some guys and keeping the line tight works for others.

You could put your self in the funny farm thinking about this kind of stuff

I do agree Hanson that some of the clicker runs we set the hook on might just not be fish. this could explain a break off at hook set. You set the hook on something that is dead weight on the bottom I could see how a break off could occur. You set the hook on a floating fish (with all things done right and even a monster) I just do not know (maybe a instant run in the opposite direction) how a break off could occur.

[DTro]

Well the 50% hookset worked wonders tonight, even in not so clean waters.

A simple quick snap is all it took.

[MinnesnowtaWild]

Tonight I had a screaming clicker and got too excited and set the hook before feeling for the fish like I usually do. Now it will be the one that got away...oh well!

Missed fish or not...I still love getting away and relaxing on the river even if I don't catch anything but a snag I will still go home happy.

[Larry FlatCaster]

Well the 50% hookset worked wonders tonight, even in not so clean waters.

A simple quick snap is all it took.

And a sprinkle of Confidence with your new Green and yellow rattlers....Works wonders.......

Who else uses rattlers out there???

[DTro]

Those aren't rattles, next time we fish I'll show you a rattle

It sounds like I tied a Maraca on my line.

[Larry FlatCaster]

Okay.... You got me confused?

Those aren't rattles, next time we fish I'll show you a rattle

It sounds like I tied a Maraka on my line.

[DTro]

Okay.... You got me confused?

What I was saying was that this thing is super loud and rattles quite a bit more than those beads you use.

[Larry FlatCaster]

Cool.... Can't wait to see in action

[Gordie]

I tried the rattlers today and in the first spot a wopping 5 min and had a bite then lost the fish then on to the second spot with in 10 min got a bite didnt hook up but this is a new thing that will become part of my arsenal.

[A.W.Wolfram]

This is one of the best hook sets i have seen.

Check out the HotPocket hook set.

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[Gordie]

yea I see that hook set last friday night about at least 1/2 dozen times. mine is similar but to the side.

[Larry FlatCaster]

Is this Circle hooks or Kahles.... I can't recall what HP likes to use.

[uppdacreek]

He likes octopus style, I beleive 9/0 and 10/0