Running power to a shed or garage

[JohnMickish]

 Originally Posted By: Tima

Inspector is correct, because all other receptacles would then

be downstream from the gfci on the "load side".

The key is "load side". If you pigtail the other receptacles it's wrong.

[Roofer]

haha, it is rather simple work, but the hardest part I found is remembering all your runs and hooking everything up correctly. Luckily for me, my dad was a former electrician.

mnfishinguy, now you know how I felt last year, when everyone thought reroofing their house was easy.......just so they could pocket their insurance money (fraud)......

[Tima]

I thought you and your father have run a roofing business for

30yrs, which you have been involved for 12 of those years.

[Roofer]

Yep, what do you want to hear? Doesn't mean all we do is roofing........

[Tima]

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[Roofer]

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[BRULEDRIFTER]

Yes a homeowner can do their own plumbing.

[JohnMickish]

Roofer, I guess I'm one of the "rich and lazy" guys. My roof got totaled last year and I'm not even going to think about doing it myself.

[BRULEDRIFTER]

"If you are going to run more than one GFCI on the same circuit you DO NOT feed the second one from the protected side of the first one. Now if you have regular receptacles between them it gets tricky"

Ok I have a 20 amp circuit to my attached garage with 12 ga wire. First receptacle is GFCI (1) and then a regular (2)loaded off of it and another regular (3) off of that.....then another GFCI (4) loaded off of regular (#3)......there are then two more regulars (4 and 5) loaded off the GFCI (#4)...

First off, did that make any sense and secondly is it correct or is it a problem? It has been that way since I moved it but would like to correct it if wrong. Thanks.

[Roofer]

 Originally Posted By: mnfishinguy

Roofer, I guess I'm one of the "rich and lazy" guys. My roof got totaled last year and I'm not even going to think about doing it myself.

Doesn't mean you are rich or lazy. Just means you have insurance on your house to pay for it.

Sorry if I hijacked the thread.

[Roofer]

As far as the homeowner and the plumbing....I was talking new construction.

[Swill]

I checked and my 26gal Husky compressor is a 120 volt / 15 amp.

I have 8 open slots in my panel, but my basement is unfinished, and I am thinking of now running a new panel to the shed instead.

After receiving all this feedback, I think this is going beyond my comfort zone here. Any ballparks on how much it might cost to run power from the meter to a panel in a shed / garage?

Anyone live in Sherburne County MN or the Big Lake MN Area is an electrician?

[keith schultz]

You might want to put your compressor on it's on circut see's how it will be going on & off alot more then your other tools.most require a 20 amp breaker. at least thats what was told to me by a sparky.

[Wanderer]

I'm assuming a shed would fall under the same heading as a detached garage. Code says you have to have 20 amp circuits in a detached garage in lieu of 15's as you would in your house. [20 amp breakers and 12 guage wire]

I've been watching this thread for a while. Its been interesting to relate the posts to the work we just finished in my garage and connecting it to my house.

There are lots of opportunities to make installs that work but don't fall into current code. It changes enough to seek out those who know what they're talking about.

[Surface Tension]

Some things would help to know.

What amp service do you have to your home.

What is your total load now.

How many circuits will you need to finish your basement.

You have space for 8 additional breakers. You'll use two to run power(220)to your shed which sounds more like a shop then shed.

You want to finish off your basement. Depending on what your doing there will determine the amount of circuits you'll need.

If its a den and and bedroom your fine. If you start adding a hot tub and bathroom then things might be getting close and as I said depending on what amp service you have you might want to

go from a 100 to 200.

In the end you'll choose a dia wire according to what you'll be running in your shop. From a new 220 breaker in your panel you'll run 220 out to your shed. That wire size is determined on what you plan on running in your shed. The breaker amp/size protects the wire between the house and shed. The new panel and one in your home will be grounded together.

Inside the shed you'll have an other panel(bonding screw removed) with the power going to the main breaker. For all that matters that could be a 100 amp panel because the feed is protected with the appropriate size breaker in your home.

You can't just feed your shed off the meter. For one reason the line running to your house is rated for the size of the panel by its main breaker, so you can't go beyond that. Secondly you can't run an unprotected line to your shed.

Just like your home you'll have large draw items like your compressor on its own circuit. If you can switch the compressor to 220 then by all means to that.

[BobT]

I am really surprised by the responses I'm hearing. There are sooo many errors and misconceptions. What really is surprising is that I assume that some of those responding are licensed electricians and just being in the field should have more sense than to offer technical advise on a forum HSOforum involving the details about supplying a building with electric power. There are many various things that must be considered as noted by Surface Tension.

From the descriptions about the GFCI wiring tells me that many are either not qualified or are confused and therefore should avoid working with them. Not wiring them correctly leaves potential for electric shock.

If you don't have the code book handy or don't understand it and/or don't really know the rules I highly recommend you hire a certified and licensed electrical contractor to handle your project. At the very least, before you apply power to your circuit, have it inspected per MN law. Your inspector will be able to catch most of your errors and potentially protect you from serious injury or worse.

Bob

[BobT]

I have been working in the electrical industry for nearly 20 years with the past 15 as an electrical designer in the engineering group of industrial machinery manufacturer. I work regularly with many codes including NFPA70(includes NEC), NFPA70E, NFPA79, ANSI, OSHA, CE, CSA, UL, NEMA, IEC, and others. I am a member of an electrician’s HSOforum and have often contributed to the discussion forums where information is shared and codes debated among persons of the electrical fields including engineers, designers, journeymen, master electricians, plant electricians, computer technicians, electrical parts salespersons, teachers, etc. I can tell you that even the most seasoned veterans have argued what may seem like simple things to electricians. For example, I recall one thread that ran for weeks discussing the proper wiring of a duplex receptacle. One would think this would be cut and dried but it isn’t. I completely updgraded and updated the supply service and total wiring of my home including electric heating as well as three outbuildings. Each had its own specific conditions and unique requirements. All of my work has been inspected and fortunately very few errors were detected. In fact, I received more than one compliment from two different inspectors on the quality of my work.

After all this, I still would not even consider myself even partially qualified to offer technical support or advice about how to calculate, supply, and design the electrical system for an outbuilding of which I have no knowledge of the design or purpose. There are too many variables to consider. Here’s just a few that come to my mind. Where will the supply come from? Will it be run overhead or underground? If underground will it pass under concrete, parking areas, etc? What are the expected loads to be served? Will the environment be dusty, wet, or contain hazardous or potentially explosive vapors? What size wire is required for the supply and branch circuit conductors? What type of wire will be required to meet the environmental conditions? What about box fill? What about dedicated circuits such as welders, air compressors, refrigeration equipment, etc? What about ground fault protection? How much lighting will I need to be functional and adequate while energy efficient?

Advice offered via this forum is highly subjective and based on personal assumptions about the project including the level of competency of the person using the information.

Electricity is not something to be taken lightly or for granted. If you are not proficient it is best to leave the work to licensed professionals. Even they get tagged by inspectors.

Bob

[sparcebag]

Bob are you defending yourself aginst yourself??

I also watch post of advice and cringe at some of it.

[fishermatt]

You can't become proficient until you do some of the work yourself! Before I learned how to wire an outlet, I did not know how to wire an outlet!

I read some books, researched on the internet, talked to some electrician friends, then I wired my whole cabin myself including having it inspected, and saved myself over $2000 in the process.

Can you blame the average guy for not wanting to pay a licenced Electrician $50+ per hour (or $100) to drill holes, run wire and connect it to the panel and the devices?? No offense meant here, but it's just not that complicated!

I agree with hiring out for the trenching, running wire from the meter to the sub panel, and installation of the panel and ground. There is a lot of money to be saved by doing the rest yourself, and we are all (most of us anyway) trying to help this person have a successful project.

Nobody in the Trades should begrudge any person trying to do something on their own instead of hiring it out.

[Roofer]

I agree Sparcebag.

This is a fishing forum. Why would you take advise about something to do something yourself that you have never done before. There are professionals in different fields for a reason.

People are cheap and there is no way around it. It's only going to get worse.

Doing a house now where the homeowner built it himself, lived in it for a year, then sold it to an unknowing couple. They are finding MANY things done incorrectly. The main reason is because a homeowner can get away with more than a paid contractor. Some people say, "well, it's my house, I can do what I want".......but what happens when you sell that house to someone else? Or when something goes wrong, and your insurance company won't cover you?

Also, we got by plenty good before GFI's were even invented.

[Surface Tension]

In defense of members here that are trying and help.

Its not that easy to put that knowledge to print. A guy thats a very good electrician might be half as good about typing it all out. In fact all the electricians I know wouldn't even try.

Whether it be electrical work or what ever, its darn tough to be completely thorough without witting a book.

In the end the original poster will have to pull a permit and have his work inspected at least twice. These guys can tell a D-I-Y'er over the phone and will be sure to go over their work with a fine tooth comb. Any mistakes and the inspector will be back again for a third and forth time.

This forum is to help one another out. Those of you that contribute, we appreciate your contributions.

[BobT]

The point I was trying to make is after reading through the various responses about how to provide ground fault protection and whether the building would require it, I am convinced that the original poster must be nothing short of confused. There were plenty of inaccurate or incomplete statements made that would serve only to cause more trouble than clear the mud.

This is why I'm surprised anyone would even attempt to explain it to someone not familiar with the codes in a forum such as this. Especially without knowing all the details about the project.

I didn't intend to offend anyone. Just trying to share my surprise and concern for the safety of the original poster. I'm sure nobody would enjoy discovering that the advice they gave based on incomplete data was somehow at part responsible for someone getting hurt.

Sharing your knowledge and expertise is nice but be careful when those you share with may not fully understand what you're talking about.

Bob