Need help settling a bet

[Muskie456]

Hey guys,

I posted this somewhere else and thought after I did that this would be the better spot for the question.

If you shoot a #5 steel and a #5 lead with a mod. choke at 40 yards what shell will have a tighter pattern?

Does heavy shot pattern more like steel or lead?

Thanks for your response

[DuckDog]

Just my thoughts... Lead will pattern better as the pellets will be able to travel further at 40 yards. Steel will generally loose speed and fall off.

Heavy Shot - well, in my experience Heavy Shot patterns like... heavy shot. Better then lead, better then steel

[SmilinBob]

This is a loaded question, sorry, had to. With all factors being equal, powder load, # pellets, etc, the pattern would be the same as it is determined by the choke constriction, not the material being shot. With that being said, lead will deform in its travel through the barrel, thus potentially causing some irregularity to it, however steel will bounce off one another and do the same. There are no 2 shells that will pattern the same. The only way to know is to pattern the gun being used and average it out as every gun will pattern differently with steel and lead. We spent days talking about this subject in school. Sorry, there is no clear cut answer here, too many variables. Pattern the gun and you will have your answer for THAT gun.

[SmilinBob]

Speed falling off should not change the pattern on the 2 dimensional target, it will however change the shot string and lengthwise pattern.

[Muskie456]

I gotta tell you smiling bob your not helping me win the $10

[Fishing Realtor]

Vote here for lead:

When fired from the same distance, everyones knows that since lead is denser/heavier than steel - it carries more downrange energy/"killing power"...but it has to pattern tighter as well.

Pattern charts I've seen show spreads with the same choke throwing the same shot as having the lead load carry further by approx. 5-10 yards.

[Fishing Realtor]

Oh, and since Hevishot is denser than lead...you'd have to say it patterns "more like" lead. Thus, when patterning your gun - hevi will pattern tighter than the exact same steel load using the same choke.

Ballistics is a complicated science - there might be flaws in some of my applications...any other insight appreciated.

Now to really complicate things: does Black Cloud pattern more like lead or steel? For the time being, let's assume factory chokes, not aftermarket ones...

[leech~~]

Black Cloud patterns the dollars out of your pocket very well! Not sure if it shoots any better then the rest!

[johnsd16]

It is widely accpeted in the gun industry that STEEL shoots roughly one choke designation tighter than lead.

Look on a set of Invector Plus chokes, or benelli chokes it will say

Lead- M

Steel-F (or IM) on the same choke.

This is also why many factory Full chokes read "no steel shot". Since steel typically shoots tighter than lead if you go up in constriction (down in bore-diameter) you get more pellets bouncing off each other and you get a horrible pattern. Many people think it is a safety issue in shooting steel out of full or xtra/super full turkey chokes due to cracking or breaking, this is not the case according to numerous gun representatives.

For a promo shoot once we put a turkey choke in a browning cynergy trap and shot steel target loads out of it to the tune of 1000+ rounds with no damage to the choke or barrel. Those were low base #7s though.

This is because of this. Why I don't have a short answer for that, but in talking with engineers from Browning/Winchester, Benelli/Franchi/Stoeger, Beretta, and Remington.

I believe the question asked was referring to pattern, not effective killing energy. Downrange lead has more energy due to its density, with that said, since steel is lighter it is ofen much faster inside 30yds and thus "hits harder" than lead, but lead carries its punch longer.

I used to shoot Kent Impact Tungsten Matrix when it was first introduced, the reps assured me it would pattern more like lead than steel. When a collegue and I were given 20 or so boxes of Hevi-shot we were told the same, and we both found it to shoot more like lead than steel. Since that time however the heavy shot is no longer made in irregular shapes like it was when we first tested it.

[Cold_blood]

i have a pre steel shot remington 870 shotgun with a 28" full barrel and i have shot steel through that with better patterns then lead and when blackcloud came out i've been shooting that with some of my best patterns ever coming out of my barrel

[Crusty old Swede]

Muskie, the simple answer is the steel will pattern tighter than lead in your bet. One reason is that the harder steel will not deform on firing and round pellets fly straighter than even slightly flattened pellets. Black cloud with the funny pellets patterns pretty good because of the wad used. The smaller sizes of steel can pattern very tight, the larger sizes (starting about #2 - BB depending on choke/barrel) need less choke to pattern well.

[Lab & Ranger guy]

Muskie, the simple answer is the steel will pattern tighter than lead in your bet. One reason is that the harder steel will not deform on firing and round pellets fly straighter than even slightly flattened pellets. Black cloud with the funny pellets patterns pretty good because of the wad used. The smaller sizes of steel can pattern very tight, the larger sizes (starting about #2 - BB depending on choke/barrel) need less choke to pattern well.

+1

A "standard lead" MOD choke shooting steel, is more like shooting lead out of a "standard lead" Full choke (in general terms). The tighter the choke the tighter the pattern at longer ranges. With that being said, Black Cloud with the flight control wad and "striper" chokes like the Pattern Master (EXT), is an entirely differnt story dealing with shot strings and pattern distances.