tiger attack in sd

[Kodiak]

sounds like the kid was taunting the tiger and was leaning over the rails on the pen. The thing used him to get out of the cage by grabbing him and climbing over!??

not really entertainment but the dude had it coming, messing and taunting a tiger!

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

There were three goof ball teen-agers taunting the tiger. They now think that they set up a board so the tiger could cross the concrete "moat", and the parents of the dead kid have the audacity to say that zoo's are places that you go to, to have fun, not to get killed! Like the tiger talked the goofs into putting the board across the moat. Sounds like they are just trying to set up the lawsuit against the zoo, looking for a lottery payday. Doesn't anybody believe in personal responsibility anymore these days? I swear if it was one of my kids, I have three and four grandkids, yes I would be sad but I would really blame them for their stupidity and not the tiger or the zoo. Just my 2 cents.

Windy

[The Grebe]

Some people are just that simple minded...maybe it's the way they grew up, or maybe it's genetic...cause and effect don't seem to equate with them?

When I was about 14 the father to my girlfriend at the time, took us to an animal farm up near Alexandria.

There was this good sized Llama, big old sucker,chocolate brown and very friendly. There was a sign that said, "Spitting Llama, do not tease!"

The girls dad, being the fat head that he was, starts teasing the Llama and true to form, it spit about a cup full of goo right in his face!

Then he gets all indignant, threatening to sue, and wants to shoot the Llama in front of a bunch of kids, with a little .25 he used to carry...what a fool!

I wish they would have had a boxing Kangaroo and a wrestling Orangatang I could have pushed him in with!

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

Grebe,

Like Ron White says, "You can't fix stupid"!

Windy

[Dotch]

Got that straight, Windy. If those guys were teasing the tiger or otherwise messing with it, then I don't feel one bit sorry for them. Loved your story Grebe. Putting the guy in with the llama after it was fired up, it probably would've kicked the snot out of him. It's one of the reasons they're used as guard animals to protect flocks of sheep against dogs and coyotes. Some people just don't get it tho, do they? We've seen some of the same things. Having exhibited sheep all over the US for many years, it never fails. Along with throwing garbage in the pens and trying to feed the sheep stuff they shouldn't eat, some dummy always teases the rams by sticking their hands in the pen, even after we've warned them not to. A quick calculation tells you a rams head and the gates are both harder than a hand. When teased, a 250 lb. ram can back up pretty quickly and mash a hand against the pen. They get a lot of practice after being provoked constantly. When the people scream in agony and look at us in disbelief while holding their throbbing, flattened digits, all we can do is shrug and give them that "What did I just tell you?" stare.

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

Dotch,

In today's society after getting their hand crushed by the sheep they would proceed to sue the owner of the sheep, the manufacturer of the cage the sheep was in, the sponsor of the livestock show, the owner of the building that was housing the show and the state that the show was being held in!!!

Can you tell I am a bit old and crotchy. I am an old rich conservative who believes in personal responsibility and it drives me nuts to see things like this happen. Back in the day, if I would have gotten my hand crushed like that, my old man would have hit me in the head for acting like an one-who-thinks-I-am-silly and then made me apologize to the owner of the sheep for antagonizing his animal! Ah, the good ole days, I will take them anyday and twice on Sunday!

Windy

[PierBridge]

So you guys were at the Zoo and saw exactly what happened.

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

Pier,

There you go thinking again! You are going to get yourself in trouble! LOL

I said, "They said......" meaning that is what people are reporting on the news, internet, radio, tv etc and I also said, "IF it were one of my kids.

Never claimed to be there, just supposing, my uninformed friend!

Windy

[Shack]

I think the story has changed big time in the last 24 hours. Sounds like tiger climbed out on her own and they are labeling the young guy who died as a hero.

Not enough info yet to pass judgment like this. A lot of “good reporting” and hear say .

[Bigbartguy]

Shackbash is right, the story looks to have taken a big turn. The wall was 4ft shorter than the recommended minimum required to house a tiger. Apparently the wall was 12ft, when it should have been 16ft.

I have to say that the zoo had GREAT spin control in the beginning. 'we dont know how it couldve gotten out, the kids mustve been doing something' was plastered all over the place.

I dont know what the kids were actually doing, but if the wall was truly 4ft shorter than required, that's a BIG difference. I'm no tiger expert, but I wouldnt want my kid around it.

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

Bart,

I am not defending the zoo, just commenting on what I had heard. I have also heard that the 16 foot is just a recommendation and not a requirement. There are people saying that it is highly unlikely that a tiger kept in captivity could leap that high without being provoked. I will take a wait and see attitude, I am not putting a halo on the kids that were attacked just yet. If it comes out that they did nothing and the tiger just jumped out of his area and attacked then I say hit the zoo with everything you got and the skys the limit on the settlement, I mean how can you put a price tag on a life, priceless. But if they were provoking it and it did jump out after them then I say that you have to assess the blame equally if not in the favor of the zoo because the tiger is a non high thinking being, the kids should know better. I would also say that there should be some standard requirements in the zoo industry for animals spaces and protecting them from the people and the people from them. Agreed?

Windy

[Shack]

Windy,

That is a good approach at this point.

They said Zoo was closed for one day at first and now I think it is still closed, pending further investigation. It also sounds like the zoo has previous "Big Cat" area violations in past. Also, if you look at the map of where the tigers pen was and the two separate attaches occurred on the people, its many, many blocks away. If any taunting occurred, could a tiger seek a way out, travel many blocks, find the exact people and mall those people. I think not. Now if these people where taunting a cage free tiger, I would think this is very unlikely. Unless you conceder running away as a form of taunting, because I would be taunting my self right the heck out of there.

The wood ramp idea has been blown out of the water.To think this could occur at a zoo is nutz! just another example of good reporting in America.

Zoo's animals are taunted every day of the week. Kids taunting an animal or not, the animal should have never gotten out in the first place. Taunting has been going on since animals where first on display. Kids will do this. I can not remember when the last time I taunted any animal in a cage, but I am sure I did or was part of this when I was young and at a zoo on a school field trip. That’s why they are called kids. They do stupid stuff from time to time and then learn.

My kids went to the zoo in last year on school field trips. I could not imagine this happening to them. Taunting or not. If I where the parents, I sure would sue. They will never have their boy back. What a terrible/horrible feeling.

As long as there are visitors still in a zoo, wild dangerous animals should be monitor. At least I though they where. They should know the minute a cat like this gets out. Especially when the cat mulled a zoo keeper a year ago.

[The Grebe]

Why was my post to this topic no longer valid? I should be more specific...I wrote up about a 6 paragraph post, hit the submit button and it never went anywhere....a box popped up saying that my post to the topic was no longer valid? It wasn't like it sat there for 3 hours, just long enough to finish writing the post?

[Bigbartguy]

Windy please dont get me wrong - I'm not pinning halos on them either. 3 teens in a dark zoo just after closing is a recipe for trouble

I know that kids taunt zoo animals, right or wrong it happens. If the tiger got out unassisted - that's just plain unsafe. If they helped it get free, then I guess you get what you pay for.

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

Shak and Bart,

Sounds like we all might be on the same page. Everybody pops off their opinion when the reports start flying but we probably have to take a "wait and see" until all the facts are in now. I guess I would agree that the zoo should have to do a better job of protecting people...against themselves! Like you said, everybody taunts animals and they are just animals acting like animals, the zoo has to do a better job of protecting people, FROM THEMSELVES!

Windy

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

Just in....

SAN FRANCISCO (Jan. 18) - One of the three victims of San Francisco Zoo tiger attack was intoxicated and admitted to yelling and waving at the animal while standing atop the railing of the big cat enclosure, police said in court documents filed Thursday.

Paul Dhaliwal, 19, told the father of Carlos Sousa Jr., 17, who was killed, that the three yelled and waved at the tiger but insisted they never threw anything into its pen to provoke the cat, according to a search warrant affidavit obtained by the San Francisco Chronicle.

"As a result of this investigation, (police believe) that the tiger may have been taunted/agitated by its eventual victims," according to Inspector Valerie Matthews, who prepared the affidavit. Police believe that "this factor contributed to the tiger escaping from its enclosure and attacking its victims," she said.

Sousa's father, Carlos Sousa Sr., said Dhaliwal told him the three stood on a 3-foot-tall metal railing a few feet from the edge of the tiger moat. "When they got down they heard a noise in the bushes, and the tiger was jumping out of the bushes on him (Paul Dhaliwal)," the documents said.

Police found a partial shoe print that matched Paul Dhaliwal's on top of the railing, Matthews said in the documents.

Toxicology results for Dhaliwal showed that his blood alcohol level was 0.16 - twice the legal limit for driving, according to the affidavit. His 24-year-old brother, Kulbir, and Sousa also had alcohol in their blood but within the legal limit, Matthews wrote.

All three also had marijuana in their systems, Matthews said. Kulbir Dhaliwal told police that the three had smoked pot and each had "a couple shots of vodka" before leaving San Jose for the zoo on Christmas Day, the affidavit said.

Police found a small amount of marijuana in Kulbir Dhaliwal's 2002 BMW, which the victims rode to the zoo, as well as a partially filled bottle of vodka, according to court documents.

Zoo spokesman Sam Singer said he had not seen the documents but believed the victims did taunt the animal, even though they claim they hadn't.

"Those brothers painted a completely different picture to the public and the press," Singer said. "Now it's starting to come out that what they said is not true."

Sad to say but usually where there is smoke....there is fire.

Windy

[Shack]

Sure changes the story around. Makes the kids/guys sound like the disserved a tiger mauling them. I will agree, stupid people, but the tiger should have never had gotten out. Smoking grass, drinking and taunting a tiger in a cage is not the brightest thing someone can do, but I do not think one of them should have died because of it. I still think the Zoo is at fault big time. We will see.

Sure makes me think twice about going to a zoo .

Windy thanks for the update.

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

Shack,

I am guessing this thing is going to the courts and will probably be settled. Not sure they can pin 100% on the zoo because there are no hard and fast guidelines for enclosures. I am guessing that there will be soon though. Still, I think a jury will take the "dufus" factor into consideration especially since the kid was under age, had twice the limit of alcohol in him for an adult with weed in his system and in the car....I got to think that will knock a few zero's off the settlement. Like you said, we shall see.

Windy

[irvingdog]

Zoo's are governed by a national board, and subject to audits for standards suchas cleanliness and cage safety. According to the most recent audit done there, the cage was within compliance.

You cannot protect a fool from himself, otherwise, we're going to require an unclimbable fence between sidewalks and streets pretty soon.

Did the kid deserve to die? No. Should taxpayers have to ante up because this kid didn't have the brains to not TAUNT A TIGER? Heck no. Did Darwin nod approvingly when it happened? Likely.

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

I'm right there with you dog! Like Ron White says...You can't fix stupid!

Windy