New Canon - XTi/XT/D20 - Whats the difference?

[311Hemi]

The wife and I are looking to buy a new camera, but have no idea what we need. The XT and XTi body fits our budget, and possibly the D20 (not sure on new price?) if I can find a new one somewhere?

Can someone explain the major differences with these cameras. Is one a better choice than the next.

The XT is around $399 at some places, and that would give me around $300-400 to spend on a lens. The XTi is a little more $540 (body only) and so I would limited to around $250-300 for a lens.

I have no idea what to even look for in a lens. Most shots would be closer range outdoor at this point. Hunting shots with the dogs and fishing shots, I would like a little zoom if possible but want to make sure close range indoor shots would be good also. Wife wants to shoot stuff indoors such as foods, pets, children...etc.

Any thought when on a $600-$900 budget.

You can also email me if any of you has some suggestions on places to look or knows of any good deal, or can just explain easier over the phone. A package deal might be nice.

zachej1REMOVE at hotmail (Contact Us Please) com

remove the REMOVE from my name if you didn't get that!

[Steve Foss]

All right, here goes my take . . .

The XT and XTi are different versions of the same camera. The XTi is the upgrade of the XT. They are nearly the same, with the XT having the slightly older 8 Mp sensor and the XTi the newer 10 Mp sensor. The XTi has a few more nice features added when they put out the upgrade, but most important for what you need, there aren't too many differences.

The 20D is now two generations old. You almost certainly won't find one new (it's been replaced by the 30D and now the 40D). The 20D is a much faster camera with a lot more features than either the XT or XTi, and has virually the same 8 Mp sensor as the XT.

You should be able to find a very nice lightly used 20D for somewhere around the price for an XT/XTi, but then you'll have the worry that you don't know what you're getting when it's used.

Don't worry at all about the difference between 8 and 10 Mp. It sounds like a lot, but the reality is you're not going to make prints much larger with the 10 Mp than with the 8 Mp, and the ability to crop out more of a photo with a 10 Mp and still get a good-sized print, while being some advantage, is a pretty small one.

I've made prints to 20x30 with that 8 Mp sensor, so you can go big, depending on the subject in the image.

For what you seem to want, which isn't much very fast shooting like sports, either the XT or XTi seems quite a good fit. If you aren't interested in having the "latest," I'd say save your money and get the XT. I use it as one of my backups, and it takes excellent pictures. If you want the latest and the 10 Mp appeals to you, you can get the XTi and still be within your upper budget end.

That gives you more money to spend on a lens, and these days all entry level digital SLRs have such good sensors that the lens' glass quality makes a much bigger difference in sharpness and quality of the image than the camera does.

A good lens to look at, which starts fairly wide angle and zooms to a certain degree of telephoto, would be the Canon EF 28-200 USM zoom lens, which sells for about $360, has nice image quality and a good zoom range. At 200mm (the physics of the sensor on the cameras you mentioned actually give it the equivalent of 320mm), you've got a decent amount of telephoto for the times you want to stand a bit away from the subject.

If at some point you get more into sports or wildlife/bird shooting, you'll want to upgrade to a lens that focuses faster and has longer focal length, but the 28-200 is a good all-around lens.

You're up to about $750 with those two (the bodies will come with battery/charger and cables), and you'll just need to spend another $35 or so on a nice compact flash memory card, say a 2 Gb from SanDisk or Lexar.

That's my recommendation. Lots of differing opinions on these things, so other folks will certainly chime in to help you out.

Typically a new buyer weeds through all the advice he/she gets and takes that which makes the most sense given your budget and other needs.

Good luck, and have a blast!

[311Hemi]

Thanks for the info. Do I need to worry about that lens not having IS?

[Steve Foss]

IS is helpful, but at those focal lengths you can certainly get by without it. And for people starting out with DSLR equipment, developing a strong supporting technique (how to hold and brace the lens) is important. Sometimes a tripod will be needed in low light or other situations, but for most of your photos you can handhold it quite easily and get nice sharp pictures.

Canon makes a 28-135 IS if you think you really want IS. It's about $400, and doesn't have as much top-end focal length. When money is at issue (isn't it ALWAYS at issue?), it's about making tradeoffs.

And, while I advise clients on this kind of thing all the time, you'll get other advice here from other photographers who look at things differently than I do — their advice may in the end sound better to you.

[finnbay]

Lots of good advice from stfcatfish. Can't quibble with any of it. My personal take is that the glass you buy is the biggest factor in image quality as opposed to the camera you buy among the choices you listed. In most cases, photographers change camera bodies before they change lenses, so the glass usually outlasts the camera. I shoot more sports than nature at this time, so IS isn't a big factor for me. Many of the others swear by it under certain low light conditions and as I expand more into outdoor photography I'm sure I'll use it more as well. The two stops it gives you can make a real difference at dusk especially.

[Paul]

I own the XTi and have no complaints. I have a couple different lenses for my camera. I have a 28-80 kit lense (ok but not very wide, found myself haveing to back up a lot). I have a 28-80 USM lense from my 35 MM days, still not very wide. I recently added a 17-85 with IS and USM. 17mm really is nice when it comes to taking everyday pictures. I wasn't sure if that extra 11mm was going to be that much but it was a huge difference.

My one complaint about my XTi is the on board flash, Great if you are 2-5 feet away. If you get >10 feet away I am really wishing I had a hot shoe flash. But for a majority of the applications I have gotten away with the built-in flash.

[311Hemi]

You guys have been really helpful. A few more questions for you:

1) The XT does not have the dust/vibration cleaning mechanism.....is this important to have?

2) Struggling on what size lens to buy. The wife said she wants to do nature shots, more close ups, and abstracts, and then of course vacations & landscapes. I would mainly be shooting outdoors, be it hunting (decoying ducks....nothing very far away, pheasants, dog training events), fishing in a boat (not sure how small I need for this).

Would a 28-200 cover this, or is this too much range in a lens to expect it to get quality pics across the board. would a 28-135 be any better....or would that limit me more. The only other one I was considering was a 70-200. But with a 70-200 I would probably then have to get a cheaper wide angle lens?

[finnbay]

A 28mm lens on those cameras ends up not being a very good wide angle. Those cameras have a 1.6 sensor crop, which can be good or bad. Good for telephoto, it adds to the projected lens length, bad for wide angle. At 28mm with a 1.6 crop, it acts more like a 44 mm lens. Tough to get all purpose coverage with one lens. A combination (and I'm not proposing this) but similar to an 18-105 and a 28-200 would cover the spectrum.

[Dbl]

I agree with Ken here. Thats why so many of use end up with a bag full of lenses. Its like fishing, how many rods do you own for specific situations? I know I have a boat full. If someone could make an all purpose lens that was high quality, went from wide to long telephoto and not cost as much as a car they would be on to something.

None of this helps you with your dilemma of course. If add the kit lens with the camera, the 18-55 at less than $100 it is not a bad lens, it will work to start out with. So maybe the 28-200 will be a good choice as a second and see how it works for you. If you find yourself thinking you need something to go wider or something with more reach a few months down the road then revisit your budget and how you want to spend it.

Which 70-200 are you thinking, the f4 or the f2.8? That choice if you have the kit lens at 18-55 may not be a bad one. Both versions happen to be very good lenses and you could add a 1.4 Teleconverter to it to get it out to 280mm. It will now make the f4 lens an f5.6 lens or the f2.8 lens a f4 but that should be no problem shooting in good light. The other thing I like about the 70-200 is the constant aperature. Your aperature does not change as you zoom the lens, nice when you are shooting when the light is lower, and nice if you add a teleconverter.

The dust sensor feature is something that no doubt would be nice, more money nice? Hard to say. I clean my own sensors on my cameras so it is not something I worry about. With no cleaning it depends on how often you are taking the lens off the camera, what kind of conditions you shoot in, dusty, windy, etc. A little work in post processing and you can eliminate many dust spots until you feel its time to clean. If you bring it in to clean it will run around $50 and you will not have the camera for a few days. If you do it yourself around 15 mins and some cleaning supplies. More decisions.

[311Hemi]

I was thinking I wanted to do the body only and spend $300-500 on a somewhat better lens. Maybe I will just do the kit lens for now and then look at getting a better lens once I learn more about what I or my wife need.

I understand why you guys have so many lenses, I just don't know exactly how much picture quality is lost with trying to cover a broader range.

How many of you clean your own sensor...I would assume I can damage something if I don't know what I am doing?

[Steve Foss]

Hemi, cleaning the sensor is a bit touchy, but not really a problem. You can buy kits to do it. But if you don't swap lenses, you won't have to clean your sensor very often. Dust still gets in there but it's when you open up the body by changing lenses that more dust enters. I'd say your sensor cleaning worries are well down the road.

As for wide angle, it really depends on what you want to achieve. The 44mm equivalent of the 28mm is plenty wide for many things. It's not a great landscape lens simply because there are times shooting landscapes that you want as wide angle as you can get.

You can go with the 18-55 kit lens, but another option is to buy the body and the Canon 17-85mm, which will offer much better quality than the kit lens and a bit more reach, not to mention it's got IS. That runs about $470, but will get you a nice wide angle and will be a lifetime lens that you'll never have to upgrade. Can't say that about the kit lens, which is just OK.

Then later, if you really find it's the thing for you, you could pick up one of the 70-200 series, which is Canon's sharpest telephoto zoom series and is a nice step up to Canon "L" quality, which are their top professional level lenses.

If you buy the XT and the 17-85 and a CF card, you're right about at $900.

[Dbl]

Steves lens suggestion is a good one I agree, but if you don't want to spend more money I would not worry a whole lot about the kit lens. It does a credible job. Or maybe you want to spend the little extra on the Xti? Just more ideas.

As I mentioned I do clean mine. Can you damage the sensor, yes but you have to try pretty hard. There are a couple of products out the make the job easier. There is the dry method which include Lens Pens, Dust Aide and the like. Easy to use not much danger here but may not remove stubbon spots.

Then the wet method, using a special fluid and cloth. There are excellent directions on the web on how to do this and if you follow along step by step very little chance of doing damage. I have shown at least 10 folks how to clean there own, kind of gets you by that first step of "do I dare do this."

[finnbay]

These guys know a lot more about the specific lenses than I do. I've paid for good glass, but always seem to be lusting for something that isn't quite covered by what I have. Why can't Canon develop a 10-400L IS USM 1.8 that is tack sharp through all the f stops and can take both a 1.4 and 2 TC and weighs about 1 1/2 lbs. If they did, it would probably cost $40,000!

[Steve Foss]

Yeah, I remember how uptight I was the first time. It was totally no big deal. I've only ever used the "wet" method.

I don't clean my sensors on a regular schedule. I just pay attention to the images and when I see a few dust specks showing up as little dark circles on the image I know it's time to clean my sensors. And sometimes I just clean them to make darn sure they're clean as a whistle before a big shoot so I don't have to clone them out in post processing, which can be a pain if you have a lot of images to handle.

I'd be surprised if you have to clean your sensor more than a couple times a year. I offered to clean the sensors on a couple Canon original Digital Rebels that had been in use by a local newspaper for two years with never a lens change, and they were very clean.

[WifeKidsandDog]

Quote:

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I was thinking I wanted to do the body only and spend $300-500 on a somewhat better lens. Maybe I will just do the kit lens for now and then look at getting a better lens once I learn more about what I or my wife need.

I understand why you guys have so many lenses, I just don't know exactly how much picture quality is lost with trying to cover a broader range.

How many of you clean your own sensor...I would assume I can damage something if I don't know what I am doing?

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I'd also have a look at the new 18-55mm "kit" lens with Image Stablization and only came out a couple of months ago. I've read some good reviews about it.

I use a Giotto Rocket to clean the sensor -- I tried Eclipse and Sensor Swabs but found that I had more success with the Giotto and it's much cheaper.

I have to say though, I thought the Sensor Cleaning feature of the XTi and the Canon 40D was going to be a gimmick but it works and I really, really like it. I hated cloning out dust specks in images.

Cheryl