Cutting bullrushes

[Hammer Handle]

One of the worst things I see, is cutting off the trees near the lakeshore. I even know people that have done this...all for the purpose of viewing the lake from their cabin.

Then, in a few years they have to "haul in rocks" to protect their shore as it is erroding away.

Sorry to get off topic, but things are starting to change. I see many people planted water plants back on their shore to protect it. The DNR has people that will give you advice on how to do this.

[fivebucks]

Mike,

The rules state you can clear submergant vegetation without a permit. All emmergant vegegation needs a permit with which you can clear 15'. That is the way I read the DNR HSOforum and what I have been told.

[walleyemkr]

Fivebucks is right Mike...the 15' path to open water WITHOUT a permit is ONLY for either a) strictly submergents or strictly floating-leaf vegetation. ONLY. It happens quite often that people get an answer from the County, a lake association, or SWCD that is KIND OF right. Lakeward of the ordinary high water mark on public waters is DNR jurisdisction, NOT County / SWCD / or someone else. ANY emergent vegetation clearing needs a permit, be it cattails, wild rice, bulrush, etc...

[JP Z]

And that is the problem that arises when we "TRY" to do the right thing as told to us by an official....they are taking certain liberties with what they THINK they have jurisdiction over. I just wish more officials knew what side of the line they actually had control over, and not overstepping boundaries and then causing us the lakeshore owner the problem when the correct offical steps in and says we were incorrect and should have gone to them instead. Which is why I have asked each and everyone that MAY be responsible......and I still get differing opinions...I think some folks just have minor control issues they let all that power go to their heads.

[livintofish]

Just a ? for you then Mike. This seems to go back to what I was talking about earlier, with people wanting to do everything they can within the limits of law. Why exactly do you want to clear your whole shoreline? And what are you clearing? Just trying to understand the situation a little better.

[Jackpine Rob]

Did I miss something? I thought Mike was talking about a 15' strip that grew back each year.

I'm guessing here, but it sounds like Mike's rushes didn't get the message that they are fragile plants that aren't supposed to grow back if cut. Doggone it!

[livintofish]

jpz, That sounds like a whole lot of complication and politics to me. Now you could just research it a little bit and do the thing that is good for the environment your lakeshore happens to be in. This way you would be doing something that sustains healthy populations of willife (like that trout in your hand, there are many sensitive fishes just like them in all lakes), and you wouldn't have to worry about the law! Its like anything else in life, if your worried about breaking the law.....ITS BECAUSE YOUR TRYING TO DO SOMETHING YOU SHOULDNT BE ANYWAYS....right?

[livintofish]

Quote:

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Did I miss something? I thought Mike was talking about a 15' strip that grew back each year.

I'm guessing here, but it sounds like Mike's rushes didn't get the message that they are fragile plants that aren't supposed to grow back if cut. Doggone it!

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Evidently you did miss something, because what you said makes no sense, and he didn't even say what he was cutting...learn a bit about rushes, that is true and has been reaffirmed be several people. That was funny though.... really

[JP Z]

livintofish,

asked if I could remove branches on some trees to raise the canopy. Dnr said NO, Soil and water said YES. And not so they are twigs just a raise so yes, I can see the lake a bit but still have trees....Or if I cut trees above the high water mark, can I remove the stumps....NO....says the Soil and water......YES says the DNR, as long as you grind them and leave the roots.... Get my point...Trying to get a solid answer.

[livintofish]

jpz,

So from what it sounds like, you had the DNR Specialist out to your house, he told you what you can and can't do....Since the DNR is the MN state authority on these shoreline matters theres your answer. The DNR wouldn't tell somebody they couldn't do something if it wasn't going to have an effect on wildlife and the lake. And it sounds like your not happy with that answer, would it be possible to put a wooden bench out by the lakeshore where you could sit and enjoy the view? Let me share an observation I made this past summer while working on a number of fairly undeveloped lakes in Northern MN. It was a beautiful lake view with coniferous trees skirting the shores of many lakes in undeveloped OR more nature friendly conservatively developed areas where lakeshore "owners" had left the vast majority of native vegetation. However in many areas you could see where people had come in and ripped out everything in sight for that turfgrass lawn and either had a quickly eroding grass bank, fake sand beach, or landscaped riprap which provided a view of the lake from their house, but also a view of thier house and whatever junk they had in their backyard to anyone from the lake, or across it for that matter. I wouldn't think that to be a desirable trait, in fact I believe that is why so many people take fishing trips to the Canadian wilderness each year. Just some thoughts on what a more natural shorline can do for the looks of a lake, let alone the wildlife populations that inhabit all of that shorline brush and trees, everyone likes watching songbirds right? Just some thoughts...

[MOBY RICHARD*]

livintofish; Your right about Mike not saying what he was cutting, but you missed something also... he did not say he wanted to clear his whole shoreline...unless it is only 15' wide...

[MIKE IN lINO III]

Moby Richard is correct. I have 208' of lake shore and I failed to mention that it is rice. I want to be able to get my pontoon out on the lake, that is why I maintain the 15' opening.

You guys are correct on the different state agencies not being able to give a straight or correct answer. I had to put in a gravel driveway across some questionable wetland. When I say questionable, it does not hold water ( old farm feild) but it does have wetland species plants growing in the low areas. So I had to have the SWCD come out and help me designate where the wetland started and stopped. I learned alot from them. When I had him walk my path down to the lake we talked about how thick the woods were and the terible shape of the path due to runoff from the field. They told me that I could not bring in any foriegn material to fix the path but I could cut all the underbrush and chip it and put it on the path. They also said that I could not grind any stumps that were in the path.

Now, When I recieved my proposed tax statement this year I called the tax office because of a rather large jump in value. As I was talking to the guy I mention the shape of my path and he instintly said " you're the one with the washed out path to the lake" I asked him if there was anything I could do for it and he mentioned that some people get a permit to put sand at the lakeshore and who is going to care if some "falls" out on the way down there.

I guess my point is, depending on who you talk to you will get a different answer and/or attitude of what can and can not be done.

Mike

[JP Z]

Mike,

And my guys said the complete opposite.......Nice they really do need a set of rules that EVERYONE follows for officials. And no, I don't want to listen to the DNR when they are telling me not to do something in the Jurisdiction that itsn't theres by the way Livin......And I would like to be able to see though 40' of my 400' of lakeshore......

[livintofish]

Moby your correct thank you for pointing that out, I did understand that it wasn't the whole shoreline, but did not articulate that well. Mike it sounds like your situation is very unique because wild rice is protected and I can see where that would lead to some permiting issues, but will come back, but you are doing the right thing trying to find the legal way to do it, unfortuneatly that is just the politics of the system. I guess it just comes down to finding the MN state law and going by that. As for the runoff from the field affecting the area, I gotta think that someone would be able to restore that or give a permit to have it restored with native plants to stop the degradation, be persistant on that one. Now I don't know whether that would be the DNR or who, but if somethings being degraded in that way I don't see why they wouldn't want to fix it. Also like you say about the different answers and attitudes, just like anywhere else some people might be more helpful and others don't want to go to the effort, unfortunate...but it happens. and jpz if you thining out the canopy in a forty foot area is not the DNRs juristiction, then don't go to them, find out who is responsible for regs on what your doing and follow what they say(which it sounds like youve done), nothing else should play into this, right? Sounds like a completely valid point you have and that you have obtained a permit through whoever controls that sort of habitat modifacation. I wish you guys luck on getting the proper information and permits do accomplish these minor modifacations. Just remember the political system can be very frustrating, as you well know. But the professionals working for these organizations only want to help citizens like us and do whats best for the resource.