C&R: the BIG ones

[Matt D]

I'm curious about opinions on this issue since I've debated in my mind so many times. While it might not be practiced by some anglers, most of us would probably agree that releasing larger fish is an important part of maintaining a quality fishery. But what about those fish that are truly HUGE? (The 14.7lb eye caught last weekend brought this to mind). How much longer could such a fish reasonably be expected to live? How much would it contribute to the population during that time compared to, say the four 24 inchers that Joe Fisherman took home in his bucket to eat? What are the chances that if such a fish is released, it will ever be caught again someday when it's even bigger? After all the admiring and measurements and time out of the water (you know what I'm talking about!), what are the chances such a fish will survive if released? How big might it get if it does? Are these reasons to keep such a fish to hang on the wall or are they reasons to let it swim away to be caught another day?

Pick a question or two and let's hear your opinion. I'm guessing they run the spectrum, but lets try to keep the flames out.

[fiskyknut]

My best answer is I wish I would have caught that thing....I have seen fish longer that weigh less fairly often, but that one apparenly is gurthumus maxumus....that is a truly large fish, and nearly the one I've been fishing for! Wonder what that 34 or 35 inch fish weighs this time of year? One of these days! I'm into c&r bigtime but 14 LBS is getting LARGE, I have seen fish over 33 inches that weigh 12,13#'something. It is near the spawn now and the old betty's are heavy. I don't mind seeing a fish this large taken, {'cept I did'nt catch it!} it is the 27, 28, 29 inch class fish people keep more often up here that bothers me a bit, and I see quite a few of those, but to each his own, I know mine is still somewhere out there waiting to be hugged.

Nice fish...Later...Fisky

[Dan97]

Hi Matt...

Yep, I'm still up.....

Here's an "uneducated" opinion. That truly huge fish, I feel, would be past it's reproductive prime. It has already passed on it's "superfish" genes and is on it's way out. so removal from the lake is of no real consequence. Remember I did say "uneducated".

Personally, I would release the fish. I've been blessed with having caught a few of these huge fish and remember how it made me feel. If the fish swims off and eventually dies of old age, so be it. If the fish swims off and is caught be someone else.... Well the thought of that makes me smile.

It's a tough question not knowing all the specifics of the fishery. Maybe someone with a bit more book learn'n than me can help you out better.

Dan

[Guest]

Walleye as large as 20 lbs. have been known to reproduce successfully.

Some strains of true sumo class walleye have much longer spans of active reproduction.

This is how these giants pass on the vital characteristics needed to continue the strain. Arguably this may be the most vital long-term trophy insurance in the gene pool. They build future generations of trophy class fish.

In this day of exquisite and durable reproductions it is not necessary to harvest these valuable genetic miracles of nature.

The biggest 2 fishing thrills of my life was catching, then releasing, a 15.05 Walleye. Personally I could not imagine her hanging dead from my wall. It was better for me to know she is out there getting bigger by the year.

When and if I top her, I will go for a replica mount and hopefully be able to repeat the double thrill of the C&R.

Double your pleasure, and double your fun, take a picture and let her run.

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"Ed on the Red"
Backwater Guiding Service
[email protected]
fishingminnesota.com/ed-on-the-red/

[Guest]

I'd have to say anything over 33inches I'd probably be keeping, anything under is going back.

Yes the fish may live but how much longer?

Second...I have no problem hanging a dead 15 lber from my wall, just the cruel evil side of a conservative like me...hell that's why I'm on top of the food chain!

[Walleye One]

Take a picture and let the big fish go!

[Jim W]

Just because a fish is large or old does not relate to lack of egg production. There might be less viable and fertile eggs produced, but those piggy females keep putting them out. These aren't humans we are talking about. Keep that in mind as well. Especially if you decide to keep a fish. Feel free, you caught her.

Invest in a quality camera! My biggest walleye to date is by no means equal to that or Backwaters sows he catches( 10 pounder) and if practiced(that's one of the biggest words in the phrase "practice catch and release") enough, it shouldn't take a guy very long to snap off a half dozen photos.

Unless your alone, when reeling in a true trophy fish, have your partner ready to go with a camera. If you can, land the fish with out a net. I have some awesome photos of my fish, one has been enlarged and framed.

So practice taking photos of your fish, even if they aren't true trophies. SO when the time comes, you'll be ready to go!!!

Keep the rods bendin'!!!

Jim W

[Tully]

When I got my biggest this spring (11 lbs 11 oz)
(bow to BE) I had my 8 year old take some shots. The wind was gusting to 30+ miles an hour and then the camera got wet and wouldn't work. Man you want to talk about nervous! The pictures did in deed turn out and so did the pictures of my boys 8+ pounder. I had never caught one over 5lbs before that day and always said anything over 8 was going on the wall. I think when I caught it I went into temporary shock. I made sure she was good and ready and let her go. Seeing her swim away still makes me smile! Alot of my friends told me I was nuts but I still know I did the right thing.
Tully

[Dan97]

OK guys. I guess I stand corrected. I'm glad to hear the old "superfish" are still able to pass on their genetic superiority. Thanks for the lesson!!

My top eye to date is a 12.3 caught while I was alone. I was able to get a length and girth, a good look and back she went. No pictures. Just memories.

A year later, I heard of a 13+ come off the same area as my 12. Was it the same fish? Did she survive the stress of C&R to be caught again? I don't know for sure if it was, but the 13 was released as well. Insert a big smile here.

So what of the other questions Matt has. Such as survival and growth after release? Anyone?

Dan

[Guest]

I have seen 16 pounder's released on a certain special sumo piggy system.

I know I had a chubby just looking at her!

I know of a few over 18 in fact, just imagine that once folks, shivers Eh?

You get a serious case of slack jaw when you see one of them SUMO monsters come and go, I can tell ya that.

Cameras are a very good idea, maybe 2 or 3 to be darn sure. I hope to invest in a digital with a timer delay soon. I have missed many photo OP's due to no timer on a camera when I am out alone.

A great set-up I have seen is a RAM mount and a camera with a timer grip rigged up. You can be sure you keep things stable and right where you left them, and get the shot you need. They work well with smaller video systems too.

I have no problems with someone taking the fish of a lifetime, set your goal and stop there if you need a dead mount.

Other then that, catch all you want, keep only what you need.

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"Ed on the Red"
Backwater Guiding Service
[email protected]
fishingminnesota.com/ed-on-the-red/

[Johnny B]

I read a report from the DNR that walleyes in the ten-plus range are capable of producing over 1 1/2 pounds of spawn. More specifically, individual females can produce over 600,000 eggs, generally 20,000-50,000 per pound of fish. Therefore, if we remove a few of the larger eyes from a fishery, we are theoretically eliminating thousands of future year classes.

There is not a lot of data available on mortalty rates. Many of the published reports are in the In-Fisherman. I would be very interested in seeing a more comprehensive study done on survival rates. I'm sure that I am not alone when I say that no matter how careful you are, when you release a badly hooked fish you still wonder if they are going to make it.

Ed, 15.05: IMPRESSIVE! When and where did you get that one? There are very few people that have ever seen a fish of that caliber and fewer that would have the restraint to let her go. Would love to see pictures...

<)))><

[Guest]

I've had the great opportunity to catch 3 walleyes over 10lbs, a 31", 30.5" and a 29". I CPR'd the 30's and I mounted the 29" because it swallowed the hook into it's belly and was bleeding down there. I didn't feel comfortable letting her go to suffer and die...if that was the case. I truly believe all of these fish were capable of reproducing, and vital to the system.

The most important thing to do is bring the camera! Luckily I had my camera along for each of them (most of the time I forget it!) and also a friend to help take the photos. The self timer on the camera is necessary when your alone and it is tough to shoot photos with a large fish in your hands. It's not a bad idea to practice taking photos of yourself/camera placement just in case!!!

[Mankato-Ice-Man]

I have had only 2 8 pounders and one 9+ pounder in my life. They were all caught during tourneys, so they were all released. I ad the option to keep them, but did not.
I fully plan to get 5 or 6 pics of my dream fish, a few quick measurements and have a replica made as a wall mount. It might cost me a little more, but I feel its a much better alternative.

I really think if a fish is in good shape when you catch it, you dont over handle it, and get it back in the water, it has a very good chance to survive.

I never regret letting anything go that I have ever caught. Just hope C-P-R keeps growing.

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Born to Fish, Forced to Work!

[Steve Foss]

My thoughts have changed as I've gotten older. I kept and mounted an 8-11 from Devils Lake (N.D) when I was 19 that was the largest walleye taken to that point in open water there. At 19, I thought it looked fine on the wall. It's still on the wall at the lake cabin, and though I'm proud of that fish, I'm 40 now, and had I caught it yesterday I'd have taken measurements, photos, and sent her on her way. I believe I'd feel the same way with 'eyes in the teens, though I've never caught one that big. I've caught bass over 5, channel cats to 30, pike to 15, and won't keep any to mount. This is just a personal thing, not a message that we all oughtta be that way. There are a lot of ways to look at things.

It does hurt to watch people keeping 12 pound northerns and big cats for the table when they have lots of spawning years left, and the older I get the more I lean toward regs to develop trophy, rather than numbers, fisheries. On the Red River around Grand Forks, N.D., where I'd fished channels for years before recently moving to Duluth/Superior, anglers can keep one channel over 24 inches as part of their daily limits. I favor a no-kill fishery for fish over 24. I think that'll develop more large cats to be caught, photographed, released and never forgotten. But that's just me. Eddy, where do you stand on that? Do you find really big cats, say 20 pounds and over, where you fish toward the headwaters?

As to the long-term spawning potential of a 30-plus inch walleye, I'll leave that to the experts.

I'd just say think through what's important to you. If you want that sucker on the wall, that's fine, it's one reason many of us fish. If you put it back in the water, feel good about that but don't lord it over others or pretend you're more pure for doing it.

And have fun out there!

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Steve ([email protected])

[Guest]

Lots of questions asked and I will try to answer them as openly as possible.

I won't give away my sumo walleye waters, except to say the 3 over 14’s that I have caught and released, all came in the USA section of the Red River.

I do fish the Canadian end but I have always been on the net, and not the rod when the Canadian monsters come in, someday that will change. My biggest in Canada to date is 13 something. I have a very solid 100 walleye over 10 now, in 98 I know I had over 90 over 10. I have 2 on the walls that are around 12, they were either DOA or unable to be released successfully. All but about 15 or so of them walleye C&R’s came from the Red River basin and it’s associated tributary rivers. I have put in some serious hours on the rivers to do that too.

Yada-Yada brag-brag bla-bla-bla, yes I know. The Red River system has been very-very good to me!

The cats, I wish everything over 24” was a mandatory release on the Red River system.

Just look at what that regulation has done for the Canadian section of the Red River, truly amazing results. It undoubtedly is a world class trophy channel catfish fishery. Stu McKay and a few others were insightful enough to push the 24” restriction through with great resistance from many local interests. Now he is widely considered a hero for his efforts.

I hope to see ND & MN agree on the 24" issue in the very near future. For now we sportsman need to foster appropriate restraint to insure we will see the increase in trophy fish continue to climb.

We now see bigger cats all up and down the system. The dams that are being reconstructed will only help to again allow unrestricted movements of fish. These projects will surely benefit the whole system.

Lots of good things in the works for the Red River basin fishery, hang on to your hats, it's going to get even better.

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"Ed on the Red"
Backwater Guiding Service
[email protected]
fishingminnesota.com/ed-on-the-red/

[Guest]

My 0.2 cents worth. I finally caught a nice walleye a couple of weeks ago. It is small by a lot of peoples standards 5.1 pounds. But this is the largest walleye I have ever caught. Believe it or not I am going to have it mounted. I am proud of catching it and it is a beautiful fish. You may not think I am doing the right thing but to each his own. I am in my 40's and this will be the first fish I ever mounted.
Good fishing everybody!

[Toad]

Another walleye spawning factor to consider is the size of the eggs produced by very large fish. While more numerous 24 to 27-inch fish may in fact produce greater numbers of eggs-- helpful for recruitment through sheer numbers--generally, the biggest walleyes also produce the biggest eggs. What this means is that once hatched, fry from the largest female walleye have been given a "jump start" on other young of the year fry.

First, these larger fry are more fit, and possibly more vigorous and able to escape predators. Second, all other factors being equal, these "super fry," which have larger, better developed egg sacks to consume, reach larger size faster. This means they're more likely to avoid predation and soon contribute new generations of trophy walleye.

So just a few other in a whole stew of factors to consider. Pretty cool in a way how we, the anglers hold the power to be our own fishery managers. Here's to multiple tens for all you fellas .

-a friend called Toad

[Steve Foss]

Hey, good for you, Crappie Hunter. Every time you look at that walleye you'll remember the thrill of the fight and the landing.

Eddy: I've fished Lockport with Stu. Quite a guy, and it sounds like he was a real pioneer for cats there. I agree 100 percent on developing the fishery by following Manitoba's lead on the no-kill over 24 on cats. A day landing more than a dozen cats from 20 to 30 pounds, with a shot at a true 30-plus, would convert a lot of catfish anglers to that philosophy, I figure. Not all biologists believe that no-kill over 24 will build a fishery like that around GF and Fargo, though.

I've gotten to know a few of those guys on both sides of the river, and have pushed the no-kill over 24, though I'm too far away to do it anymore, really. Do you push for it during those meetings when the DNR and Game and Fish get public opinion on the fishery?

The Red's such a great resource. When I was a kid growing up in Grand Forks, very few fished it. That's changed, partly because of the Cats Incredible tourney, but partly because people are realizing that (with the help of the Red Lake River, which enters the Red at GF), they can not only catch cats and decent numbers and big sizes of walleyes, but also (especially at the Point), crappies and other fish. We've pulled in smallmouth, crappie, white bass, walleye, sauger, pike and cats there. Just 'cause it's silty don't mean it's cruddy.

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Steve ([email protected])

[Matt D]

Glad my questions stirred some thoughtful debate. The bottom line in terms of personal preference/opinion I think comes down to what one considers a trophy. If your idea of the fish of a lifetime (based perhaps on how much you fish) is an 8# eye, 15# pike, etc. then by all means, if you get one and want a mount, I've got no problem with that, so long as the fish you keep to eat (should you choose) are truly "eaters". At the same time, if your trophy is a 12#+ eye, 25#+ pike, etc, the same applies. The problem usually arises when somebody raises their standards for what they consider a "trophy" AND they also raise their standards for what they consider an "eater". This just shouldn't happen, period. Just because you're holding out for that 12# eye doesn't mean that a 5#-er is dinner fare -- it just doesn't work that way.

Of course, my original question dealt with the REALLY BIG fish. How do I feel about keeping these? Yeah, I think they're still capable of contributing a lot to the population. Yeah, I think they could potentially become absolute monster fish. Yeah, I think that certain people catch fish like this with the best intentions of releasing them, but spend so much time measuring/weighing/photo-ing them that they die after release. Yeah, the fish population is better off with them back in the gene pool. Yeah, they're really rare and more people should have the opportunity to catch such fish.

But ... If you catch an absolute monster (the definition of such being somewhat subjective, but not that much), I think you have every right to hang it on the wall. It's those fish in the "almost big enough" categories that really provide the makings for potential trophies. That's why slots are so effective. If every fish in that 3-5 pound range MUST be and IS released. Over time there's tons of potential for producing that true beast that some of us are after and lots of personal bests for others along with it.