Anybody here flyfish?

[PDXFisher]

The three trips I've made for muskies to Minn, I didn't feel like straying too far from that which I could get guidance for, so I spent way too much on huge lures with nine hook points each. Of course that included a few trips to Thorne Bros, where I inquired about their successes with flies, which they assured me was a tough way to go. But looking at the flies they had for sale which ostensibly target Muskies, it doesn't surprise me so much. They were all quite small, especially relative to the monstrous things we throw at them with baitcasters. Why wouldn't the flies be trying to imitate the same things that the huge lures do?

In Oregon, where I live, we throw 6"-9" tandem flies for Bull trout, which have a similar aggressiveness to Muskies (if not the size or teeth). I just got back from the Bahamas where I fly fished for barracuda, which are even more aggressive than Muskies. Again, huge flies work on Cudas half the weight of the skis we are after.

So when people say it is so hard to fly fish for these beasts, is that because it's harder to cover as much water with 50-80ft casts all day long than it is a couple hundred feet with baitcasters? Or is it peoples' experience that they just aren't impressed by flies? If it is the latter, has anybody tried truly large flies...approaching double cowgirls, suicks, etc. in length? I mean, the guys at Thorne were talking 10-11wt rods, they can certainly throw large flies with pool cues like that.

-Derek

[fisherking01]

Sounds interesting, the musky guys I know wouldn't get caught throwing flies, not a tough enough image. (Not ripping any of you, just my buddies) Honestly I've never seen anyone fly for muskies. My buddies fish muskies together, I know they don't have the patience or skill to fly fish out of a boat in close proximity to each other.

Bet it would be a blast to get a 50+ incher on a fly rod. I'd have to think on the right day it would be very rewarding. Good luck should you try it! Brent

[Random guy]

I know a few cats that fly fish for them and pike. I guide a group that comes up to red and we wade in Bulrush pockets for big pike and those guys catch some nice fish doing it.

[Meat-Run]

Hey PDXfisher,

Perfect timing on this post. For a couple years I have thought about it and I can think of two spots or lakes that I think this could be effective. Granted this is one technique I wouldn't take to Mille Lacs but on some smaller consentrated fish could be very rewarding. I know a guy in my town who smallie fishes all the time and catches 3-4 muskies by accident. It can be done and I just might give it a try.

My question is what size rod and line does a guys use? I have no clue about fly fishing and would like some quick and easy pointers on equipment. I do know how to use one but just don't have the tech'l stuff figured out. Too what costs can a guy see with such a setup?

mr

[DinkADunk]

Well you size a fly rod/line by what weight of fly you're casting. Most any fly rod with a decent reel from a 6wt on up can land a Muskie assuming you have an appropriate leader/tippet on it. Bass, panfish, crappie is nicely handled with a 6wt fly rod. That is a 6wt rod casts flies for bass, panfish, and crappie well. If you're more interested in lot's of bass and some pike then a 7wt or 8wt rod would be my choice (can throw bigger flies and/or fight the wind better). If you really want to go after pike and Muskie (bigger baits) then a 10 wt would be better on up to a 15 wt. Of course casting large flies at distance with a single hand cast would be tiring after awhile, so I would probably use a Spey rod to go after Muskie. Besides using two hands and your whole body, an 11/12wt Spey rod would be a great tool. You also have the advantage of using various Spey casting techniques to keep the line infront of you. Next weekend is the Midwest fly fishing Expo in Bloomington. A great resource if you want to learn about fly fishing.

[PDXFisher]

One thing to consider is how stiff of a rod you want, what kind of action. In shopping for my saltwater rod I cast a few. Always test cast as many rods as you can to see which feels best on the kind of line you'll be casting, most places will let you do it in the parking lot (at least around here, wonder what Cabela's would say?). They say you want as fast of an action as possible fishing for bonefish, where the wind is pretty much constant at 15 knots and up and far more of an annoyance than anything I've experienced in Minn the past few years. So I tried the typical 9wt rods before I made a choice. The problem with most rods 8wt and up is that they can cast long, but can't cast short. People will put a line of one weight higher on just to get the rod to bend a little with a smaller amount of line. This was the case with the Sage Xi, Scott's various models, and GLoomis riptide. On the other end of the spectrum, the Sage Z-Axis I could overpower too easily. The rod I ultimately chose was the Winston Boron B2X. It was the only one that could cast 20ft or 80ft.

The only one of the major brands I didn't try was the St Croix Legend Ultra Elite. I have this in a 7wt, and it cast about as well into the wind as the Winston. Great rod, but very fast action as well, and probably like all the others in a 9wt and higher. If you don't know if you want to spend $500-$700 on a rod, try out the Echo line of rods, and the Temple Fork Outfitters (Lefty Kreh) rods. They are closer to $300.

I have never cast a spey rod. As I don't want to lose my shoulder functions in my 30s, I should try it. Everyone out here is going that direction, including my father. I figure it's only a matter of time before I make the investment. They are even spendier, however, and harder to get on a plane.

As far as the size of what you'll be casting, that was my question in the first place. I cast huge flies far on a 7wt all the time, but they aren't weighted. If the best technique for muskie on a fly is to cast a huge weighted and strip fast, I would be very tired by the end of the day if I'm casting blind.

What are some of the really good lakes for visibility of the fish? I don't think I saw one muskie sunning itself last year. Maybe I need to go farther north to find some clear water? Sham and Alex was as far as I got.

If anyone wants to go out with me, let me know when a good time is, I still have to plan my trip. I'm watching here patiently to see when it's on before I buy my tickets. Don't worry, I'm not the typical elitist fly snob (as oppposed to the neckless gear chucker). I just like to catch fish, I don't care how.

[RK]

Hiya PDX -

I know a few guys who fly fish for muskies a fair amount, and I've done it myself some. It can definitely catch them.

It's definitely a challenge, but I don't think the challenge is what most people would think it is. Landing them certainly isn't an issue. You could probably whip a 25-pounder faster on a fly rod than you can a 6'9" jerkbait rod. When a 10-weight loads up, the fish never gets a break, and it tires them out in a hurry. Saw that first-hand many, many times guiding fly fishermen for pike in Alaska back in the mid-90s. I don't think tossing big flies is the problem either. Frankly, although big flies work, I think a 4-6" Clauser, Dahlberg Diver or Bunny Fly works just as well as a big monster fly, and it's a lot less brutal to cast.

I think the real challenge is the math.

Even on a good lake muskies are such a low density species that it's tough to reach enough fish to make the percentages work out in your favor. You just can't cover a lot of water with a fly rod. If you look at standard gear muskie techniques, most, if not all, of our methods are what the bass guys would call "power fishing." Even our "finnesse" techniques like soft plastics are, for the most part, the same tactics we usually use, but with squishy things instead of hard things. It's still cast, reel, cover water. That approach is a near necessity in all but rare situations, and it's made so by the numbers involved. The numbers game makes fly fishing for them tough unless you are in the right situation.

The cases where I've seen it succeed are:

- When you can sight fish. Actually, when fish are shallow and you can sneak up and sight fish them, a fly rod might be the best way to catch them... A fly is so subtle and in their face in a non-threatening way - it's a whole different deal than even weightless plastics or jigs.

- Fishing very confined areas that are high-percentage spots. In other words, when you have fish located and can make a spot on the spot presentation and keep at it until one bites.

- In rivers. Just because the current helps you define small areas to target.

- In lakes with high populations. The math thing again. There are some small fish, high numbers lakes in Ontario that are a gas with a fly rod...

The main thing with a fly rod is you have to either fish with another fly rodder, or with a guy who's pretty patient and willing to help you out by changing his pace and letting you do your thing.

Just some thoughts...

Cheers,

Rob Kimm

[DinkADunk]

I finished building a 9', 9wt rod for my wife (steelhead, pike, whatever) a month or so ago and took it out in the yard today to see how it casts. It was built on a mod-fast Rainshadow blank and did a nice job backcasting into the wind (had a 5" foam popper reject, hook cut off, attached to the line). Within a couple of minutes I was able to shoot all the line with only a single haul as well as maintain good control going after my 20-30' targets in the yard. This should be fun.

Anyhow, I'm thinking of going up to Cass Lake this summer and will probably use this rod to sight fish Muskie on the flats. Last year I caught a few, had a few more follows, and saw a bunch of Muskies up on the flats. There are a couple of places on 'tonka that a fly rod would be worth a try but Cass, or a lake like it, would be a good place to try.

[PDXFisher]

Yeah, RK, that's what I suspected, and feared. I figured I would have a really good chance if I could see them, but I have also read where you guys said the ones "sunning themselves in the flats" were just digesting/metabolizing in the warmer water and weren't prone to striking. So far at Independence, Waconia, Shamineau, Alex and many days on Tonka, I haven't seen any Muskies that weren't striking my topraider or already hooked by someone else.

I wasn't so worried about landing them. From what I've seen, Muskies are a pretty wimpy fight for their size. A 10lb bonefish is way harder to land than a 'ski thrice its size (will spool you three-five times) and a 20lb barracuda will jump a few feet high 5 times while spooling you at least twice. But I think both far easier to catch/fool, or maybe their sheer numbers and lack of pressure just make them easier.

What rivers would you suggest? I'm far more used to rivers than lakes, being a fly guy from Oregon. Are there some good Muskie rivers in Minn that have miles of bank to walk (ie, not private land)?

Thanks for the Cass suggestion, Dink. I was trying to remember the lake I had read about on here that had lots of flats and that was it. Are there any more like that?

[DEADhead]

I'll be out on Big Detroit, Sallie and Melissa targetting weedbeds on the flats. Many of the NW MN muskie lakes will have good flats to fish muskies.

I don't know of any rivers that have a lot of public access/easements and have heavy concentrations of Muskies. I know the Miss. up in Brainerd and Little Falls can produce some nice Muskies, though you might get a lot of by-catch when fishing up there.

[T-water]

I would definitely check out the book Pike on the Fly, forget the author. Great book with the best writing about lake and river pike I've ever come accross. There's also a HSOforum by the same name but I didn't look at it much. I know they have the book at Thorne Bros.

[PDXFisher]

Actually, I ordered the Pike on a Fly book the night I made the original post, along with the Muskie on the Fly book.

Anyone know these guys?

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[Write-Outdoor]

I actually had a guy stop me today and ask the same question about flyfishing for muskie. He saw my Muskies Inc sticker on my truck and just started talking. I'll tell you what I told him, take a nice relaxing trip to the heart of Minneapolis. These lakes are hardly pressured by anglers, they are accessible 100% from shore because each one is part of a park, and there are big muskies in each one. Here's a breakdown...

Lake Harriet--The original Minneapolis muskie lake with 54 inchers and larger coming every year and lots of 50+ coming as well. There are also good numbers and you can catch them up shallow, especially in the morning/evening. I prefer the morning though because it's just quieter. The water is pretty clear and you can sight fish throughout the summer.

Lake Calhoun--Pick an end to start on and just walk until you don't want to walk anymore...which should actually get you the 3+ miles around the lake. My vote would be to begin at the beach on the north end and walk along the mooring areas for the sailboats. Great area and I've seen a lot of them there and had lots of follows. If you walk the other way I've caught them that way and the shoreline is great, there's milfoil about 12 feet from shore and then, within casting distance, the outside weedline ends around 15 feet deep. It's a great area and don't be afraid to work your fly along the inside weed edge. The water here is VERY clear.

Nokomis--I caught a nice 41 inch tiger muskie and another 36 incher on the same day in water less than two feet. They cruise the shallows during lowlight conditions picking off the sunfish and bullheads. You can actually watch them shark around the shallows. Just park your car anyplace and walk the shoreline paying careful attention for fins. I'm not kidding here either. Water clarity is getting better but in the heat of the summer it can be a bit murky.

Early morning is best on all three and don't be afraid to fish inside the swimming beaches. Just make sure nobody is around! Another benefit to these three lakes is that they have a very sandy bottom and you can wade out as far as you want in each one.

[PDXFisher]

Interesting, I've read about those and talked to the various kids that work the fishing sections of the various Ganders about them. I've never gone there because when I visit Minn I stay in Watertown, so Tonka, Waconia and Independence are closer. There is also "family" in Verndale and Northome, hence the Shamineau and Alex trips and interest in Cass and Mantrap.

Lake Rebecca is also very close, but I've never been there. Is that another place I should be thinking about? Small, but I imagine with the regulations that pressure is fairly minimal?

[vermilionwally]

I just bought a fly rod and have heard that you can catch Northerns and Muskies on them. What kind of flies are best to use and how do you fish them?

[PDXFisher]

First of all, what weight did you buy? There are a couple of books out on the subject, which have not been delivered to my house. Check Amazon. As I haven't tried it yet, I don't think I should be giving advice, though I have plenty of theories

[vermilionwally]

I think its a 6 weight. i just bought a starter kit and if i like it i will upgrade later this year. I know 6 weight is probably to light for musky and pike.

[DEADhead]

you're looking at a minimum 8 wt for pike (although you can catch hammer handles on a 6 wt) and minimum 9 wt for muskies to be able to cast the large flies used to catch these fish. large clouser minnows and bunny patterns like reynolds pike flies are the norm when fishing subsurface, sizes range from 2 to 3/0. dahlberg divers and rainy's tsunami are good surface flies, again running about 1/0 to 3/0 in size.

it's a whole different world casting a rod like a 9 or 10 wt, from your 6 wt. A lot of stream trout guys have a hard time switching over to the big rod from their 4 or 5 wts. Just a heads up that it can challenging casting a big flies on a big rod,even if your not a newbie...