Global Warming or What?

[Guest]

I seem to think something is very wrong with our Big Blue planet. On one of the NPR news stories they said that the past 10 years have been the warmest. Will if every get cold for more then 1 or 2 weeks in a row? In need of some answers- Morrocco Mole!

[Guest]

Morrocco,
Don't believe everything that you read in the "news". Many people believe in global warming, I however believe it to be a load of dump. We have only been officially keeping weather records for approximately 150 years, yet the earth has been around for much longer than that. I think it is rediculous that we embrace global warming so easily, when the earth has gone through periods of ice ages and tropical stages forever.

Here's another bit of news that should lessen people's beliefs in global warming. Dave Dahl, recently reported that the ice sheet, which many believers of global warming cite as proof there of, is actually thickening, and not thinning.

If that isn't proof that global warming is a hoax, than I don't know what is.

Another thing, you'll notice that most of the people who argue global warming exists, have very little expertise in the topic, and even less fact. They are also, more likely to be PETA memebers!!

GOOD LUCK!!!!
Rusty

[cold one sd]

I agree with ya Rusty. Some people like to get on every new bandwagon. The bad part is that it seems to keep most of them employed. What the heck is wrong with working for a living? Maybe we are the dumb ones, but I doubt it.

[hawgTime]

Does anybody remember last winter? We were wishing for a little warmth!

I think we're scheduled for another ice age in about 100 million years, so we better enjoy the warmth why we can---oh ya--start saving money for auger extensions too.

iceageTime

mike

[fish4walleye]

I don't think I'd mention global warming to citrus growers in Fla. or anyone from Carolina's or Georgia,,ya might end up with 2 holes in your ashanty end

[Guest]

I was going to respond exactly the way HawgTime did until I scrolled down and seen that he beat me to it.Anyway, last year was record cold and snow.I don't think I ever drove on a lake into april like last year.The media latch onto something for a while and after it gets old,they'll move on to something else.

[SpikeRoberts]

...and what a well orchestrated hoax it is too -- thousands of meteorologists, geologists, physicists, and biologists, including dozens of Nobel Laureates, hundreds of world governments including the Bush Administration, scores of the world's leading industries (insurance) and companies (British Petroleum & Dutch Shell) all buy into this dump.
Next thing you know they'll be telling us smoking is bad for us and you can't catch a 13 pound Walleye on a paper clip covered with cheeze whiz!

[ludy]

Spike I like your res except I like velveta or prep-h

[ludy]

Spike I like your res except I like velveta or prep-h

[Guest]

Spike,
I'm not trying to pick a fight here or anything, but, I detect a good bit of sarcasm in your response. I have seen the numbers on the global warming concept, and while it might be true that the average temps have risen in the past few years, all be it a matter of a half, to three quarters of a degree, as if that matters that much, there is still no proof positive that man made chemicals or carbon monoxide from vehicles is increasing the sizes of the holes in the ozone layer. As a matter of fact, mother nature herself seems to have more to do with it than we do. It's kind of like the tree huggers saying, there are less trees now than there was back in "the day", when actually, there are more now than there used to be. Wood is a renewable resource. Anyway, back to global warming. Its hard to beleive that life as we know it is going to change so drastically that the polar ice cap is going to melt, and we will all drown to death. I have faith that the human race will not let that happen, if that is even possible. Good luck, and good fishing, try to stay warm.

Set the Hook!!

Lundman

[Guest]

Because of our stupidity, our little planet is doomed anyway. Between global warming, over population, chemicals & waste, and I brain that cant leave well enough alone, we will mess up the planet somehow.

[fiskyknut]

Our mother earth will take alot . Perhaps no more than we will be fortunate to see.
Up here I'll take this warmth, I'm not growing oranges. Snow would be alright till it piles up. We wanted ice and we have it, lets not let the lil "la nina" get us down.

easy 2 feet of ice where I was today...clear.

Regards

[cwmn]

20 years ago the word was we were going into another ice age, now it's global warming. Every time these so called scientists open their mouths they show how stupid they are.
Now I'm not saying that we aren't doing some bad things to this planet but you can't say we are in for global warming with so little info, a real scientist should know better. Beside Water World looked like a pretty cool time, I want the neet sail boat the Mariner had.

[Guest]

Lundman has some good points. Well educated. Currently there is not enough evidence to say for sure what is going on. The earth goes through warm and cool cycles. Currently we are on the upper end of the warm cycle. I can't remember how long it will be till we cool off again. We will not see the cool spell antime in our life time.

We can't hide the fact that we are polluting and over populating this earth. Personally I think that over populating is more of a concern than global warmning. If we dont' get the population growth in check we are in for some serious problems. For example we will soon be out of oil! Now personally I don't want to use a hand auger to drill because we have no gas since we ran out of oil. Now this problem I think that we will see in our life time. That is just my couple cents worth.

[GullGuide]

CWMN,
That was just what I was thinking...hehehe
Besides, that trolling yourself as bait trick looked like a real rush!!
Also....Melting icecaps = more water = more areas to fish!!! Can't be all that bad, and all the new structure to fish....like submerged towns and stuff....wow!!

>"////=<

[Guest]

Global warming is a accumulative effect that influences the weather by many means.

It doesn't automatically mean the weather will warm up, as seen in a green house effect model. In fact it may mean many areas get even colder as the atmosphere becomes saturated with humidity and sun light diminishes, a possible ice age scenario.

Oceans slowly become warmer, weather patterns change here and there, species adapt or become extinct, many supple changes take place before we see the clear picture. Fossils in the geologic record show this process is not new. If it has happened before, if may again.

I for one find it difficult to believe that we can not be negatively impacting the worlds self regulatory system with billions of tons of hydrocarbons.

We live on a big planet that is just a big blue glass bubble, an enclosed bio-system that traps gas's generated inside.

If you fart in you coveralls it's yours to keep, unless you fan it away. The earth however can not fan it away into space like we can.

Another good analogy is CO2 in a fish house. We burn a fuel that produces a gas we can not breath. Since the fish house is a enclosed bio-system it will slowly build up because nothing inside will consume it. Eventually killing you if the proper breathing gas ratio does not regain the upper hand.

Same situation here on mother earth, if we produce more then the bio-system can consume we will pay for the excess, it only takes time.

------------------
"Ed on the Red"
Backwater Guiding Service
[email protected]
fishingminnesota.com/ed-on-the-red/

[Guest]

Old Mother Earth will survive. The inhabitants. . .well that is another story.

I look at it like basic thermodynamics. The Earth receives energy (not heat) from the sun. That energy is handled in only a few ways.
-It heats the earth.
-Plants absorb it and use it to grow.
-We use solar cells to create electricity.
-It is reflected back into space.

Eventually this energy leaks from the earth into space. This is the only 'real' energy removal process.

Assuming that neither the amount of energy ariving or leaving changes very much in a short amount of time, and the earth has been at a relativly constant temperature over the past several million years, it should remain fairly constant.

But there is a simple X-factor. For the past several million years, mother earth has been building a savings account. This mass store of oil, natural gas, and coal. This is energy from the sun, transformed, and stored. Mother earth has been putting this away for Millions of years. We are going to take this energy reserve and burn it up in a 300 year span.

So, unless the earth starts leaking more energy into space, the earth will warm up. But we will burn up the oil soon and then things will cool off again.

Naturally the earth will leak energy faster if it is warmer, but if you beleive in the green-house effect then we will all get a lot warmer before things cool off.

Personally I don't beleive the green-house effect is that great, but I do beleive that burning up millions of years of organic matter reserves in a few hundred years will cause some damage. The good news is we only have a limited supply that will go dry in the near future (relative to the millions of years of build up).

I don't have a fear that all will come to an end, but I beleive that sticking your head in the sand on the issues is not the right answer either. People need to be aware of how their actions effect their surroundings. We talked about this with people leaving their trash on the ice. It only takes a few a-holes to make a nice lake a trash dump. Someday we will run out of oil and we will have to fix our polluting ways. Maybe then I can enjoy my fishing trips without the continuous auger buzzing around me.

kgm

[Guest]

For some reason, some people seem to think that earth, NOT, I repeat NOT "our mother earth"!!! (My mother is right upstairs reading!!!) was created by humans. News flash!!! It wasn't. we were put on here for some reason or another, and I don't think anyone can prove why. I think we are managing to coexist fairly well. The earth is not under our control, as man cannot outlast nature. The earth will dispose of us, when it pleases, so we might as well enjoy our lives while we're here, rather than kill ourselves over another 3 years of existence.

Earth itself creates more harmful gases each day, via volcanos, etc... than every vehicle in the world. So who's doing more harm?

The people who believe in it certainly reserve that right. But I hope the people preaching that global warming is a fact (Which it isn't by any means)do not own snowmobiles, gas powered ice augers, cars, or anything else harming this fragile environment, and only heat and power their houses with renewable resources, because that's what their side says we should all practice in order to preserve this ecosystem forever.

What do you say, not many have been willing to give up their freedoms to let a CO check for a fishing license in their ice houses, are these same people going to let the Radical Left tell us how we have to live. Believe it or not, their trying to do so right now. My TEN cents worth

GOOD LUCK!!!
Rusty

[Guest]

Well, put. The Earth is not your mother! Global warming.... What a bunch of hot air. If there is global warming God bless it. Maybe with shorter winters and longer growing seasons we up here in MN will eventually have 20 pound bass, 25 pound walleyes, 4 pound bluegills. This is a fishing forum isn't it?

P.S. I haven't thrown my long underwear away yet.

[Polar Bear]

Well stated Rusty !

It always amazes me how some otherwize rational people can swallow the "worst case scenario" argument hook line and sinker.

The most rabid, militant environmentalists always attempt to further their intellectually bankrupt arguments with the admonition that our actions will "destroy the earth". Here's a news flash: we simply don't have that ability, even if we wanted to.

Why is it so difficult to understand that species evolve and dissapear? Humans were not here 2 million years ago and won't be here 2 million years from now. Deal with it!

In a tick of the cosmological clock the entire run of the human race will be over and your "Mother Earth" couldn't give a ****.

Excuse me, I need to put on my fur coat, fire up my 10 cylinder SUV and go harpoon a whale.

Regards, Polar Bear

[bushbunny]

By & large, it seems to me that global warming is a byword for our left wing to access funding, whether it be government or private, on the premise of researching this currently popular subject. It provides them with a a more than adequate tax free living from sympathetic sources. With the wide number of conflicting opinions, I think that perhaps some of the research being done on the subject is somewhat tainted by smoke or chemicals. I agree that we have only been keeping weather records for an extremely short time and that weather changes are an ongoing phenomenon that we do not have a lot to do with. The sky is not falling!

[SpikeRoberts]

Rusty et al,

1)The concept of ‘mother earth” is derived from a variety of pre-Christian religious traditions that is carried on by those that believe the earth metaphorically “gives birth” to all life on earth. Such a perspective offers a worldview that all biological, hydrologic, and geologic systems are interconnected (a pretty basic scientific concept really) and that all people are “brothers & sisters.” While this may not be your cup of tea, I would expect that you could grant the respect towards another’s religious tradition as you would expect from them.

2)Granted, the science of climate change is not certain – but then again no science is 100% certain as all science is based on probabilities (something anglers should be very familiar with). In this case, the most up-to-date, complete assessment of the best scientific evidence (Climate Change 2001: The Scientific Basis; Houghton et al eds; Cambridge University Press) shows that:
a)there is greater than a 90% chance that the earth has warmed by 0.6 degrees C in the last century and that average temperatures will continue to climb over the next century.
b)That there is between a 66%-90% chance that this warming is outside of the range of natural variability (i.e. it is the result of human activity). Yes “mother earth” does produce a variety of greenhouse gases, HOWEVER, the earth has evolved into a self-regulating system – all the gases that are produced by the earth are re-absorbed by the earth. As a result of the process of converting energy stored in fossil fuels to energy services (transportation, light, heat, etc.) described succinctly in a previous post, we have released more greenhouse gases than the earth can absorb – exceeding the self-regulating capacity and nearly doubling the atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide.

3)Are these percentages high enough to warrant the implementation of greenhouse gas mitigation strategies? Given the potentially dire consequences – well, probably speaking, yes. Admittedly quantification of the affects of global warming on human and biological systems is very difficult. Climate change probably won’t lead to the end of human life, but it can change significantly the quality and character of the way we live our lives – regional famine, disease, and water shortages are within the realm of likely (but not certain) possibilities.
At the same time adopting mitigation strategies provides are variety of ancillary benefits (which, given the current knowledge, are very likely). The transformation from fossil fuels to other energy sources (wind, solar, biomass, small hydro, hydrogen) can provide social, economic, and environmental payback. For example we could reduce localized air pollution, acid rain, and mercury deposition. We could provide a profitable new market for agricultural products. We could diminish the US economy’s vulnerability to world oil market price fluctuations ultimately cutting down our military presence world wide.
Rational decision-making requires that we take the course of action that maximizes expected utility and minimizes expected risk; the rational choice here is rather obvious – the adoption of mitigation strategies, sooner rather than later, is the “best bet.” No reasonable person expects these changes to happen overnight. It will take time to further develop and install alternative technologies and to eliminate the barriers to market entry that they face. These obstacles can be overcome by reducing the financial incentives to the fossil fuel industry (subsidized by approximately $25 billion dollars/year; that’s corporate welfare folks) and increase the financial incentives for the development and use of renewable tech. This is primarily a structural issue and the action of a few committed individuals cannot have significant impact. However, on a personal note. I don’t own a snowmobile or a power auger, I do drive a fuel efficient vehicle and I have taken steps to increase the fuel efficiency of my house. I would happily use renewable energy source were they available. I do these things not only because they are the proper thing to do environmentally, but the also the smart thing to do economically.

4) The difference between a CO “knocking and walking” into your shelter and the implementation of regulatory statutes designed to mitigate the emission of greenhouse gases revolves around the Constitutional caveat known as “due process.” The latter go through due process, the former does not. No right is absolute – when the exercise of your rights infringes on the health & safety of others you are subject to restriction. BTW Rusty - in response to your question on the CO thread – a CO cannot enter your boat w/o your permission or probable cause just as s/he cannot enter your ice shelter w/o permission or probable cause.

As a member of both the environmental and sporting communities, I’d like to point out that the goals of the two aren’t really that different. That is, both groups want to improve the use of our natural resources so that they can be sustained over the long term. As such it might be in both group’s better interests to get past the growing antagonistic relationship to form political coalitions and work together on preservation projects.

There’s your nine-cents change Rusty and, please, give YOUR mother my regards, I will do the same to OURS.

Robert Hinrichs
Doctoral Candidate
University of Minnesota – Twin Cities

[This message has been edited by SpikeRoberts (edited 01-23-2002).]

[Cyberfish]

I am glad Spike mentioned the religious connections in the "Mother earth" concept.
Many people are unaware that it has its roots in pagan mythology and Pantheism. ( the idea that the universe itself is God.)

Cyb

www.gemfishing.org

[Polar Bear]

SpikeRoberts,

1) The concept of "Mother Earth" implies a sencience of being that I reject out of hand. You might use metaphors casually but must remember that pagan beliefs should not be the basis for any type of scientific decision making. (Terra-centrism of the midddle ages ring a bell?)

2a) Regarding your "potentially dire consequences": Similar statements are always used when discussing the range of possible effects of warming. Every time the press does a story on these possible effects they invariably focus on the worst case scenario. As someone with a background in the sciences, I'm struck by complete lack of coverage of the full range of possible outcomes. Its like doing a story on Disney World but only concentrating on the poor guy who slips and breaks a leg in the pool.

"regional famine, disease, and water shortages are within the realm of likely possibilities.": May I remind you that these problems have existed since the beginning of recorded history? The difference , of course, is that we now have an explaination for the cause: Global Warming! Too bad the pharoes in ancient Egypt didn't know about this instead of blaming thier unhappy weather gods.

As I'm sure you know, regional famine is well recognozed to be a political problem. Simply put, starving Africans can't afford to buy our excess commodities, and we aren't going to give the stuff away. I'll admit its a repulsive situation, but that's how the real world works.

And finally, certainly you are familiar with the famous flops of the "best scientific evidence" school. I don't think its worth our time to delve into that quagmire but let me remind you that some of the EXACT SAME PEOPLE who are now screaming about the horrible effects of global warming were warning us, just 20 years ago, of disasterous global cooling! Ever read "The Coming Ice Age" ?

Interesting thought: Meteorologist Dave Dahl of channel 4 (Twin Cities) stated on the radio that the current state of technology is good for forcasting weather up to 4 days in advance. Longer range forcasting is merely a guess! They only attempt longer range forcasting because the public demands it. If the best science available can't predict with any meaningful certainty what the weather will be next month, how can you expect to be taken seriously about predictions for the next century?

Fear is a powerful emotion, I think breeding fear in the masses as a means to forward a political agenda is almost criminal.

Polar Bear

[Guest]

Spike,Polar Bear, Rusty,

All I can say is, "Holy Balls". How's that for a religious connotation? LOL Wowsa, I gots me some learnin' ta do eh? Sounds to me like the answer is to get people to stop breeding like rabbits, and the consumtion issue will take care of the rest of it, huh? No, wait, that would be too simple. BRRRP!! 'Scuse me, had walleye for supper!!

Lets go fishin', and, like I always tell my 6 year old son, don't forget to:

Set the Hook!!

Lundman