AC EFI problems!????

[Meat-Run]

I have I think one of the first years the AC EFI's came out on a 1994 580. The problem that I'm having is that when I get it started it runs perfect just sitting or on a jack stand. So when I take it around the yard or just about a 100 yards or so it dies like it is starved of fuel or loss of power. This sled has been gone threw by two mechanics at the Tech. College (free labor) and have replaced and checked every sensor on it and comes up ok. I put in a new battery so it isn't a battery issue. Also I noticed when I go up and over the snowmobile on a snow bank thats when it dies. When it dies I can't started it right away and leave it site for about and half and hour or so and it will than start on the second or third pull and then I have to feather the throttle a little to get the RPMs up. Once there up it purrs like a cat until I start driving it again. I have been stuck many times with this sled and does the same thing. Dies and then wait about half and hour or so and starts back up.

Whats killing me is that it is in perfect condition and is two up with reverse and I'm keeping it for times like now with deep snow and to take my kids ridding when they get a little older. PLEASE HELP WITH ANY SUGGESTIONS OR EXPERIENCES, I'M DESPERATE AND FRUSTRATED. I'm not a so called mechanic but I'm not inclined to take things apart and feel comfortable getting them back correctly. I just can't put to much more money into this possible lemon.

Any advise would be huge!!!!!!!

mr

[MN Mike]

Not sure how the spark system is setup in those but I had the same exact problem on my '86 Pantera, run to be heck for about 1/2 hour or so, then quit, let it set for a while, run like crazy again, ended up being the exciter coil on the stator plate. If yours has one, you will need to do a ohm test on it when it is cold, then warm it up and then test it again ( you have to test it when it is warm, otherwise you will probably get normal readings when it is cold ). They should have the specifications for the readouts and what wires to test at a cat dealer or if someone has a tech manual.

It was very frustrating since it would only happen when it was warm, drove me nuts for about 2 weeks.

Mike

[ChuckN]

Quote:

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Also I noticed when I go up and over the snowmobile on a snow bank thats when it dies. When it dies I can't started it right away and leave it site for about and half and hour or so and it will than start on the second or third pull and then I have to feather the throttle a little to get the RPMs up.

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With this symptom I'm wondering if there is a problem with the fuel pick-up line inside the tank. Hard to start after it dies...maybe starved for fuel? Fuel pump/lines needs to burp itself after a while?

Take the tank off and inspect the inside components (fuel lines) within the tank to the fuel pump. Maybe replace the necessary parts, and I'm unsure what the older EFI models had if different from the carb models.. In carb models I know this is a common problem in older sleds.

[Meat-Run]

My co-worker mentioned I should check out he "voltage rectifier" ???? Is it possible that it just isn't recharging the battery even if it is new? I would think that even with a new battery I should be able to get a bunch of miles on before it dies? maybe?

mr

[Meat-Run]

I called a couple mechanics today and they say check the voltage and it should be around 12.5 volts, is this about right? One mechanic said that I might have moisture in my tank because I did put in 87 octane in just to freshen up the gas and he said that alone will add moisture to my tank. I'm not sure If I believe that but don't think that will cause my sled to conk out every 5 minutes and start up again half hour later, will it?

Mybe its my stator again but I just don't know.

mr

[Meat-Run]

Ok, lastnight I checked out my voltage on my battery cold and while it is running and is at an even 12.5 volts or higer. That checks out ok. Then I looked into my gas tank and the gas is crystal clear not milky so I know the gas is still good. I put the sled on the jack ran it for at least half a mile or more and then took it down went around the yard and it died not eve 1/10 of a mile and left me dead in the yard.

-I have fresh gas

-filled oil reserve

-good battery that is being charged by motor

Any other suggestions guys!????

mr

[Cheeser]

Meat-Run, check three things:

First, when you turn the key on, the fuel pump should 'cycle' for about a second or two to make sure there is adequate fuel in the rail. Is the fuel pump doing this?

Second, if you stand on the right side of the sled and open the hood, you are looking at the top of the ECM. Now, if you look at the side of the ECM that faces forward, there should be a clear flat circular window about the size of the end of an Ice Buster Bobber. Inside that window is an LED that will flash codes. When the sled dies, before you turn the key off you may want to open the hood and make note of the flash sequences.

The normal code should be a single flash about every second. Anything different and you have a trouble code.

Last, you may want to check your kill switch just for good measure. In your tool kit there is a bypass dongle that you plug into the wiring harness at the base of the handlebars. (there should be a diagram card attached to the dongle) plug it in and bypass the kill switch. It's a quick test, and it's free.

Let me know what you find; I have a manual that will decrypt any codes you have.

Hope this helps,

--Mark

[Meat-Run]

Cheeser,

Hey thanks for the advise. After my last posting I have unfolded several interesting minor problems. 1. huge mouse nest in the air box choking any air going to the engine. 2. cleaned that out and check all wiring from kill switch to turn key and battery, all test out in great working order. 3. started doing "omh" testing on the stator and think thats the issue. When cold it starts fine except the rpms are a little low and need to feather the throttle a little then once up and going it works great. Once on the sled and moving at an accelerated speed the coils in the stator heat up and seperate and cause the engine to die like I hit the kill switch or key.

Today I need to confirm it with a mechanic at the dealership because he has been guiding me with info via telephone to keep from bringing it in. One thing that do need to do is give Paul at Brainerd Sports & Marine allot of credit. I have called him several times regarding this and he has been awesome about helping me with out trying to "sell" me on "just bring it in and we'll look at it" approach. He could easiely do that but has opted to suggest help via a phone. Now that's service and when or IF I need service I will recommend them because they have been very honest with me.

Back to my problem. The omh test were showing cold 45 omh's and when warmed up at idle after it kills it's around 60.1 omhs. Now is this to high? I need to follow up with Artic Cat and see but what we have noticed is that its the stator acting up.

mr

[Cheeser]

mr,

Glad to hear you have it narrowed down. Electrical problems can be very frustrating. I can look in the service manual when I get home and get the specs for the stator resistance. They go bad more often then they should, and new ones are expensive. There is a company that will re-wind your stator for ~$200-250. Let me know if you are interested, I can send you the info.

FYI, my 94 EXT 580 EFI had a bad DC rectifier/regulator. I could start with a new battery, and ride about a day and a half and then the machine would just quit. A new one was $171, but I got one off of hsolist for $50. I got lucky.

--Mark

[Meat-Run]

Yes, a rectifier is definetly still in my mind but we did check the current or "charging" to the battery several times cold/warm/hot and it is checking out ok. This has been an on-going challenge MENTALLY for a long time now and I just want to pinpoint the problem and fix it, you know closure. Once I confirm that is the issue I just might purchase a brand new one because I have heard that rewind stators aren't always the fix-all and might go threw 2 or 3 for the same life span of a brand new one. I'll cross that herdal when I get there.

Please do post what the current levels are suppose to be for the stator. One plug is suppose to be around 45 omhs and the other 4 plug is suppose to be around 450 omh's. Now that I'm typing this I'm going to give AC a call and conclude what I'm thinking.

mr

[Meat-Run]

I just spoke with the mechanic at the local AC dealer in town and he said that on the 3 prong plug-in. Red to Green should be 450 omh's and Green to Brown should be 45 omh's. Well the G and B check out between 45-60 and he says that ok. But R and G didn't come close to that 450 at all. He agress that it is the stator and they can test it in the sled or out. So I might yank it out and bring it in and then order a new one maybe. AC says that they do warranty the stators for about a year he thinks so I might do the rewind if that is the case. Thanks for all your help and advise.

time to trade them sleds in and get my self a wheeler.

mr

[Cheeser]

Your AC mechanic is right on.

Here are the resistance test values for the stator:

Charge Coil (1) 450 ohm ± 20% (360-440 ohm) red --> green

Charge Coil (2) 45 ohm ± 20% (36-54 ohm) black --> green

Lighting Coil 0.14 ohm ± 20% (.11-.17 ohm) yellow --> brown

Battery Chrg Coil 0.70 ohm ± 20% (.56-.84 ohm) yel/red --> yel/red

mine tested as follows:

C Coil (1) 414 ohm

C Coil (2) 44 ohm

Light Coil .15 ohm

Bat Coil .69 ohm

There is a company in Mass called Stator Corp. (508) 478-5700 they charge $200 w/2 yr warranty for a rewound. I know several guys that have gone this route with good results.

I was under the impression that an AC stator only has a 30 day warranty - I could be wrong. Check with your dealer to make sure. Factory AC stators are between $450-499.

Factory stator part number is 3003-907.

If you are thinking of getting rid of the sled, then the rewound coil might be a more economical solution. I would wait until fall if you can so the warranty is closer to the riding season. You should be able to get two full riding seasons on the warranty.

I'm thinking of trading mine in on a wheeler also. I think I would get more use out of it.

Hope this helps, good luck.

--Mark

[Meat-Run]

Cheeser (mark),

I can't thank you and this HSOforum for all the awesome help that people are willing to give out. PRICELESS!!! Thank you and I'm going to printout your info and keep on file till fall. Next time your in Brainerd I would like to buy you a beer or beverage of your choice. Thanks!

Meat-Run

Trent Baumann