Getting More Hooksets?

[Dennis Steele]

When I worked with race horses I used to cut up old horse shoes and use them for sinkers.They were pretty snagless.Tried the spark plug thing too.
I don't think that sinkers above 1oz will be banned.It does not seem to be the ones they are targeting.
I have a tough time remembering any nite I have fished with you Sam.Its even a wonder I can remember who you are.
fishhead is still alive.I just decided I didn't want to be a closet catman anymore!
Famous?! ya right!

[DARK30]

The sound of your clicker taking off is great but one reason the large flatheads may be dropping the bait could be that very sound we all love.. The sound it makes goes right down the line and to the fish, Thats why I turn it off as soon as possible. Feeling the line go out under your thumb in the freespool mode is just as much a delight as hearing it!

WET NETS!

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cast,cast,cast,cast......

[Dennis Steele]

I think I would have to agree with Dark on that one.I have a reel that is realy noisey.It's good in a way becuase it can wake a guy out of stupor but I am sure that a cat can feel those vibrations charging down the line especially when your using a braid.WIth every click there is a slight increase in tension on the line also.That could also alert a wary cat that something is amiss.I do believer these cats aren't stupid and I know that many of them have been caught at least once.They are learning!Pretty soon they will be hunting us!

[korn_fish]

Canopy -

Fishing directly in the wood is more difficult and if your not paying attention to your rod. YOu will probably lose it and will definitely lose the fish. They will have your line wrapped before you can blink.

No clicker for me when Im in the wood. And yes, the bait can wrap you up as well, but its all part of the game.

AS far as the same snags holding channels and flats. Yes, they probably hold both, but only a few of them even get me to look at it twice in consideration of flatheads. It's hard for me to explain what I look for in a snag, but the best I can do is say that the thickest and nastiest of snags, the kind that you could walk across are the ones that I will get right up in and drop a bait in a pocket. Kind of like what bass fisher man do when fishing the slop.

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catchabiggun
http://www.angelfire.com/mn/flatheadpride/index.html

[Toad]

What I've always noticed is that snags frequented by numbers of flatheads typically only hold larger channel cats-- if any at all. That smaller channels aren't in these holes is simply due to the fact that they soon become dinner for a smiling flathead .

Clickers spooking flatheads? Hmmm. Haven't ever seen that happen. But then, I usually fish the less pressured portions of the Minnesota River upstream from Mankato (and smaller Iowa rivers). So most of the bigger flatheads I've had a hand in catching have typically ripped the clicker good, then just kept on truckin.

That said, I also don't doubt what you guys have observed for a second. Flatheads are supremely aware of their surroundings. Little bankside fire, good; big bright blazing fire, bad. Loud music is a no-no, too. 'Nother thing sorta related to this-- don't know whether you guys have noticed this-- is if you miss that first real good run in a particular hole (especially if it's a fairly confined area), that fish often spooks (turns off?) the other flatheads in the area, at least for a awhile. What do you guys think?

-a friend called Toad

[Dennis Steele]

That an interesting thought.I guess I have not realy noticed it myself.I would think that catching a fish would turn off fish in the area but I have had nights where you will get a fish every 10 to 20 minutes.Of course when I am fishing areas like these the fish are moving through on their nightly snack hunt and are not actually holed up there.

[CANOPY SAM]

I hope you folks don't mind, but I just reread this whole thread and there is so much useful information here I thought I'd get it moving again.
Thank you all very much for your input, by-the-way! There are obviously some very talented and successful fishermen on this site, and your suggestions are greatly appreciated. Is that enough "sucking up"? Okay!
I've got a few more questions. I'm really curious about the water further up the Minnesota river. Some of you have obviously spent some time up past Mankato, and I've seen it mentioned as "less pressured" water. I'm wondering if there are really big fish up there? Some have told me that the fish get larger as you get nearer the Mississippi. This is the case with the channel catfish in the Red River of the North. The farther down river you go (North in the case of the Red) the larger the average fish get.
If I'm fishing really tight against a snag and I hook a good fish, do I have to just horse that fish outta there as fast as possible and get no fight out of em' what-so-ever? Is that fun?
And speaking of a really big flathead fight, what am I in for when I finally do get hooks home on one?
I have to say that I'm releived to know that I can set the hook almost immediately on these fish - although it sounds like it takes a bit of "gut feeling" to know exactly when. I was kind of concerned about waiting a long time to set the hook for fear of gut hooking a big fish and mortally wounding it. And that raises another question. If a person does unfortunately end up with a really big fish that is bleeding badly or gut hooked - I almost hate to ask this but here goes - how do they taste?

[cvikes80]

The big ones dont taste very well. If its a real nice sized fish and you think it has no chance you can always get it mounted, keep in mind though that cats can live through alot. It would have to be pretty obvious that that they wernt going to make it before i would resort to keeping it.

[CANOPY SAM]

Oh, I just thought of a couple more! Dennis and Dark, you guys always talk about a "smart fire". Is that earlier post about a small fire "good", big fire "bad" what you guys are referring too? We used to build towering infernos along the shore at night and the cats didn't seem to notice. Do you guys really think that a burning fire nearby can spook fish?
And if the clicker on your reel can transmit the sound down to the fish and spook em' into dropping the bait, what would be a more subtle, yet effective way to rig for these flatheads as a strike indicator?

[Boar]

Very captivating stuff, I have to get the computer moved into the bathroom, this beats any mag I've read. Tons of info from every direction and humor to boot. Hats off guys. Later, Boar

[DARK30]

I suppose you could build a REALLY big smart fire. You can always jump in the river to escape. I wouldn't think a fire light would hurt. Sometimes I wonder if the sunlight can get through that water.

I do think drag tension and clicker noise will loose you fish if they are being pickey. I use my own "Flying Bobber" as a strike indicator with no clicker on. Maybe I should sell alot of them bobbers and make a million dollars so I can fish in Brazil every Febuary!

WET NETS!

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cast,cast,cast,cast......

[Dennis Steele]

I don't think you understand the definititon of a "smart" fire.It is not about using the right material or building the right kind or size of fire.It has something to do with how "intelligent" people become after siting next to it for some time.

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Minnesota River Guided Fishing
"fishhead"
[email protected]
mnriverguidedfishing.homestead.com/

[CANOPY SAM]

I guess that means I've probably never had a "dumb" fire, huh?

[korn_fish]

I have had different opinion on the size of the flathead/channel compared to how close you are to the Miss.

My experience is there are more numbers of fish as you head towards the Miss, but if you go the other way, the numbers are down, but fish are generally bigger. However, that is also because I tend to fish the same way regardless of the stretch. That is I try to fish dense snags next to deep holes. With that said, there are a lot more deep holes the closer you get to the Miss, but the "dense" snags that I look for are further apart. If I would fish deep holes alone, I might find a totally different patternt to the whole size/numbers thing.

Back 4 and 5 years ago when I was on the river 3-4 days a week is when I found the "pattern" to be true. That is the last time I actually kept logs of my trips. Getting a job after college that had me travelling put my on-water time to maybe 3 days a month, so I gave up on the logs.

However, back in the log days my biggest fish on the West of Mankato (new ulm/Judson/cortland area) was 56 lbs, avg was around 30 lbs and total caught was 50 over 21 nights. To the East, north east (towards belle plain), avg was 18 lbs. and biggest was 40 lbs with a total of 91 flats over 27 nights.

As for channels, too many to count

I would allways take "first-timers" to the belle plain, hendersen area as I could almost always give them a 20#.

As far as fighting the fish out of cover. You will do best if you get them out of cover as quickly as you can. I don't think you have to worry about "no fight". As many a musky fisherman have said, the allure to musky fishing is the fight, althogh with muskies, the fight is in the first Minute, where as the flathead, the fight lasts for over 2 minutes.

Now depending on your gear set up, a 10 pounder can give you a good fight. You get into a 20+ and your going to have a blast. 30+ and your going to get bruised ribs 45+ you better hope you drank enough milk to keep the ribs strong cause they might feel like they are going to break

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catchabiggun
http://www.angelfire.com/mn/flatheadpride/index.html

[This message has been edited by korn_fish (edited 03-25-2003).]

[CANOPY SAM]

Thanks for the information Korn Fish! Those are some really incredible numbers - you've got me sold. Less pressure and more big fish west of Kato. I've heard the river is really pretty the farther west you go as well. Sounds like I'll be takin' my kids out there for some camping trips this summer.
Are there some nice islands, sandbars or campsites that you could suggest for areas to start my initial catfishing adventures?

[korn_fish]

Canopy - No islands worth camping on that I know of. AS for sand bars, there are a few, especially with this low water. I'll have to bring out my maps to look. There is one large sandbar, and I mean large that gives a person great access to some great cattin just downriver (towards mankato) from cortland landing. Problem is, the Cortland landing downright sucks and majority of time you can't get a boat in there unless you can drive through 4 feet deep muck to get to the island and then slide the boat in the river from there. This access is really only accesible in high water. But you can get there by putting in at Judson and heading up stream aways. I could best show you on a topo map where the general area is. There are other snadbar areas to camp on, just that the one I mentioned above is by far the best one I have been to in the last couple of years.

My fishing is not generally done on sanbars though. But banks (usually steeper mud banks) but I know how inviting those sandbars are. To me, my sucess quickly jumped when I got off the sandbars and hit more good looking fishing spots rather than good looking camping spots.

Since my time came more precious to me after moving to the cities and I don't have as much time to "study" the river, I have used online mapping service to get aerial photographs of the river where I can zoom in so close that you can pretty much tell where the sandbars are and get an idea which bends are going to be "lookers" before you actually get on the water. that site is mapcard.com. I pretty much have a set of binders now of each river stretch between landing to landing from Redwood falls to Mississippi confluence. It also helped me when my GPS went belly up and I was guessing where I was on the river. Those maps quickly helped me identify landmarks (farms, creeks etc) so I knew how much further my next "promising" bend was.

[DARK30]

Hey Korn, sounds like you know your stuff! I'm looking forward to comparing notes sometime this summer if we get the chance.

WET NETS!

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cast,cast,cast,cast......

[CANOPY SAM]

Steep mud banks huh? How is it then to get around up there with a small boat and a short shaft motor? Can a person carefully, and safely do a bit of exploring without bringing and extra prop and some sheer pins?
Is there a lot of really shallow water? Maybe it would be better to go up with the canoe and search out a likely spot to fish from shore for the night?
I've had to carry a boat accross deep mud several times up the Red River of the North. The landings up there are horrible almost all the time. Not much fun draggin the boat through slop just to start your day!
Darks got a point. Maybe we could get together some time when the water warms up and do a bit of scouting up around your old stompin' grounds?

[korn_fish]

You shouldn't need an extra prop. If your boat uses sheer pins I would bring a few extras with since they are not bulky. But I have banged up my share of props and mostly are due to being dumb.

How big of boat and motor do you have? I went from a 10 horse johnson on a 12 foot jon and could go anywhere. When I went to a 14 foot with a 20 horse merc, I was happy with the extra gear I could carry and the added speed I could get. But thats when the problems started. Going faster just means more damage if you hit something.

You should be fine. Just take your time.

As for getting together some time to compare notes, I would be happy to do so.

[Boar]

Hi, I took real notice to that cliker part, I have 50 lb power pro on an ambassadeur 6500c3. I had my wife hold the reel and I took the line and put it between my teeth 50 ft away around the corner in another part of the house with the tv turn up so I could'nt hear the cliker. As I pulled back I could feel tension and vibration from click click to a very fast pull. Its obvious that a catfish can feel even more so. I understand that you can remove the left side of the reel to expose the the cliker mechanism and bend the upper half of the c ring to reduce tension, do you guys do this or recomend it? Later, Boar

[DARK30]

Boar, Most of the time the clicker works just fine on big Flatheads....They take the bait and don't think twice. Sometimes though, I think they get a little pickey. Thats when I'll turn off the clicker and either adjust the star drag to hold the bait in place or even hold the rod in my hands to detect the bite. If I'm fishing from the bank and I'm not right by my rod, I put one of my little "flying bobber" inventions on the line so I can see any action down below...including the bait action.

WET NETS!

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cast,cast,cast,cast......

[korn_fish]

I don't think that the clicker affects it too much. since it is there from the start and constant when they pull, I don't think for the most part that a flat cares. But I do notice though, that if I run up to a rod where the flat is taking line out, that as soon as I get close to the rod, or when I first touch the rod, that many times the fish hesitates. I beleive this to be from the sudden change in vibration of the rod/line from me holding the rod, or vibrations going through the ground and through the rod holder and down the line. But like I said, it is usually only a hesitation.

Abu Garcia reels with the clickers have an additional way to adjust tension to the spool when it is in free spool, regardless if the clicker is engaged. It is the round knob on the right side of the reel, right behind (to the left) of the axel that goes into the reel housing for the crank. You should be able to adjust this appropriately so you shouldn't have to adjust your drag setting and possibly miss a fish becuase the drag setting was screwed up. You can adjust this so you could still have it in free spool, but with enough tension to keep a big lively bait in one spot.

You should repeat your experiment with the line being pulled out, with this now set to different tension levels and see what the difference is.

Although many people don't have clickers and use the "flying rock" or "flying stick" technique, there is another alternative but not as cheap as a rock or stick, but will alert you much better than the clicker. Strikesensor .com makes a conversion piece from their ice fishing tip up beepers that attach to rod holders. This way, you dont have to have the clicker on but still have it in free spool and will be notified when something takes your bait. I haven't tried it yet, as I just heard about them this winter but looks like they should work fine. Since I already have the beepers for my tip ups, all I need is the rod holder adapters.

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catchabiggun
http://www.angelfire.com/mn/flatheadpride/index.html

[This message has been edited by korn_fish (edited 03-28-2003).]

[Boar]

I've scared pike into dropping a bait running across the ice, KOOM, KOOM, KOOM. I guesse when a cat wants a bait he's going to take it tension, vib or not. When useing a reel without a cliker I've come close many times to losing a rod just because of the sheer agressive attitude at that time. I was thinking of that free spool tension gizmo knob today, thanks for bring that up. Brings to mind a qoute. "If it ain't broke, dont't fix it." Thanks, later, boar.

[Boar]

Nother Q, What's a flying bobber? A stike indicator I pressume.

[DARK30]

I made what I call the "Flying Bobber" out of a wine cork. Cut a slice through the top of one end with a razor blade and attach it to your line about a foot off the end of the rod tip.

If your bank fishing and your not right by your rod, you will see the cork go out if you get a bite. You can also drill a small hole in the other end of the cork so you can use a small glo stick if your fishing past dark 30 or so.

You can also tell if your baitfish is lively and kicking because the cork will pick up the slightest vibrations that the rod tip usually dosn't.

If you need another "Flying Bobber"....Just drink another bottle of wine!

WET NETS!

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cast,cast,cast,cast......