Moon Guide

[DRH1175]

How many of you have used Jeff Murrays Moon Guide. I used it last year. And though I didn't get anything to brag about. I would like to say I did say many more deer during the hours stated pretty much all year. What are others experiences with the Moon. I just ordered another and am excited to get it!

[Ray Mysterio]

I go by the research of a guy by the name of Charles Alzsheimer. He has compiled research data on the moon and whitetails for going on 13 years and he has many books out on the topic. He states the best time to be in the woods throughout the fall. This year, the best 10 days to hunt will be Nov. 2nd to the 11th. This will be the chasing phase of the rut and will be the most daylight buck activity of the year. Last year was an odd year and the chasing phase was real early. But anybody in the woods from Oct. 14th to the 23rd last year saw alot of activity. I know I did.

I have followed this for three years and found it to be dead on every year. There is a couple things that can keep deer from moving though. You have to take into consideration warm weather, hunting pressure, and buck to doe ratio. These three factors can supress the rut.

Just my 2 cents.

Mysterio

[ddp]

Hey Ray,

I tried to google charles and can only find little info. Where did you get the book? or does he have a HSOforum?

Thanks,

Dustin

[BLACKJACK]

I've read quite a bit of Charles Alzsheimer's stuff in Deer and Deer hunting magazine, he sounds very knowledgable, but this appears to be one of those 'come up with a theory to sell books/moon guides'. The rut is determined by the amount of daylight - ask any biologist. Its easy for Charles to say 'be in the woods Nov 1 - Nov 15' because the rut in the Midwest peaks around mid Nov. And the bucks are ready to breed in Oct - seeking phase - so Oct 15-30 is also a good time to be in the woods because of lots of deer activity. And I've also seen bucks chasing does around Thanksgiving time.

I personally take the whole first week of Nov off to bowhunt, before the gun hunters start, and also several days before the 2nd gun season (this year Nov 9&10) because the rut is peaking, but anytime between Oct 15 and Nov 20 is a good time to be in the woods, you could see lots of deer activity during that time period because of the rut.

I would pay more attention to the weather during that time period, hot weather will have more of an affect than the moon phase, if it gets hot, anything above 45 degrees, work that day and hunt when it cools down.

[Ray Mysterio]

I was very skeptical of Charles research years ago. Since then I have found out that he has a 35 acre high fence pen that he watches his does and knows to the hour when bucks start chasing them and also knows to the hour when each do is bred. He has collected this information for 12 years and can now predict almost to the day when the bucks will start seeking/chasing the does and also when the does will be bred. Basically Charles has found through his scientific study that the does estrus cycle is not cued by daylight hours but is cued by the moon light. He has seen every year that the bucks start seeking and chasing around 3 days prior to the second full moon after the autum equinox. He also sees breeding start within days of last quarter moon every year. If you look back at the moon phases from last year, you will notice that the second full moon after the autum equinox was two weeks early last year. I now believe in this system more than every because last year I noticed more deer movement from Oct. 14 - 23rd than any other time all year and I spent many hours in the woods last fall.

Does may be bred early, but that usually means they are probably yearlings and yearlings sometimes come into estrus early. Does are also bred late, but 30% of the time the first breeding is not sucessful and the doe comes into estrus for a second time around thanksgiving.

The one thing I have asked a biologist friend of mine is to show me scientific data that daylight starts the rut. There is no data, it is a hypothesis. Granted, Charles work is still a hypothesis but he is going on his 13th year of a 15 year experiment and will submit his scientific results upon completion. We will all know the truth then I guess. No one is right or wrong until a solid scientific experiment is published.

Don't mean to disagree with ya Blackjack, but I feel real strong about this and I feel that Charles research has put me on more deer.

Hope the woods give up a good deer for ya.

Mysterio

[Ray Mysterio]

DDP,

I picked up the book at one of those hoyty toyty book stores. I believe it is called Hunting Bucks by the Moon or something like that.

Good luck,

Mysterio

[Ray Mysterio]

DDP,

Sorry, it's called - Hunting Whitetails by the Moon.

Mysterio

[ddp]

mysterio,

Thanks for the info. I have never really used moon phases or any other pattern to hunt before. I am an open minded guy and always open for new theories. Heck, I think half the time is right place at the right time. Free time is tough to come by these days. I wish I had the time to chose either work or hunt. So when it comes to riffle season, I have 3 weeks to gett'r done. We hunt in the Superior Nat'l Forrest pretty much out in the middle of nowhere. In the big woods, you just never know where the deer are hanging out and or when they are going to move. I was wondering if you know what the dates are going to be for prime time this year(according to the book). I think you may have mentioned them in a previous thread but I am in the middle of typing this one

Also, I am thinking southern MN is on a different schedule than the nothern. Specially north of two harbors. Any input would be great.

There is a waiver attached so you aren't liable if I do not get one this year

Good hunting,

Dustin

[BLACKJACK]

Ray, to each his own. I've seen too many gimmicks come down the pike - flashlites that show blood, miracle scents, etc. and most of them claim to be tested by biologists and hunters. Its a commercial world and they're all trying to sell you something. The more people they convince, the more they sell, the more they make. This moon guide has the same appearance. Face it, anytime in late Oct/early Nov is a good time to be in the woods as far as increased deer activity.

All I know is that between Oct 20 and Nov 10 I'll be in a bowstand as much as possible, whether we have a 'second full moon' or not. I'll pay more attention to the weather, if its warm, I'll go pheasant hunting instead, but if its below 30 degrees that first week in Nov, I'll be deer hunting!!

[Ray Mysterio]

Dustin,

Thanks for the waiver. This year the best dates are Nov. 2nd to the 10th. Basically, Charles research is done in Maine and New York so it should be accurate for all of Minnesota.

Like I said before though, there are three things that can supress the rut - warm weather, hunting pressure and high doe to low buck ratio.

Good luck this fall.

Mysterio

[BLACKJACK]

Quote:

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This year the best dates are Nov. 2nd to the 10th.

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Theres my problem with the whole moon theory, Charles is picking an 8 day span. Any deer hunter worth his salt knows that deer are going to be active during the days leading up to the rut!!! Now if he could say, and prove, that Nov 5 IS THE DAY I'd be tempted to buy his moon dump. You'd be better off donating the money that you paid for his moon book/guide to charity, and I'll tell you that Nov 1-10 will be good in 07, Nov 4-14 will see high deer activity in 08, Oct 29-Nov 9 will be great in 09, etc. You get my drift. Late Oct, early Nov will always see increased deer activity because of the upcoming rut - save your money.

[Ray Mysterio]

Blackjack,

I will agree with you that in late Oct. and early Nov., a hunter will see increased deer activity. You have got to remember though that Charles is a scientist and is reviewing his scientific data that he has collected when he makes his predictions. I'm sure he sees an increase in activity in late Oct. But he is telling the average hunter who may only have a few days or a week to hunt all season, that these days are probably the days that the bucks will move most during daylight hours. He looks at his data and can tell a hunter that based on my information, the most daylight activity is in this window of days. Then, the hunter can plan his hunt around those days and give himself the best odds possible.

I also follow the moon while fishing and I can tell you without a doubt that it makes a difference in the activity of muskies. I think it does the same with whitetails and pobably many other species. Hopefully when his scientific study is copletely published, we will learn that the rut is triggered by the moon and that the money I spent on his book helped him find out that information. That would be great. Until then, I won't loose sleep over the 14.99 I spent on the book. The more information that I can bring with me into the field, the better.

Mysterio

[slimngrizzly]

Well put Blackjack. It dont take a scientist to figure out that deer activity will increase in late october and early november.

* My predictions- Oct. 20 thru Nov. 15 will be good for the next... forever!

I think Charlie is probably one of the most educated biologists, writers, photographers, etc. But in a way its just neat, interesting, yet "useless" information. I take off the week before the gun season each year. I dont care what the moon, what the temp, wind, snow, ...whatever. I prefer ideal conditions but the fact is, it better happen then or its not gonna happen. Once the gun season hits, for the most part, everything is smart and NOCTURNAL, or stupid and DEAD.

Here the best free advice I can give. Read all the success stories on big bucks you can, look up all the scientific information on mature deer travel times, watch all the Drury videos that are out there. You will find that there is no truths in deer hunting. Now review ALL that information and you will find that ALL the fellas that killed big bucks ALL had only ONE thing in common. THEY WERE IN THIER DEER STANDS AND NOT ON THE COUCH!