Questions on 4-H fair projects

[fishinchicks]

My 3 daughters will be entering photos in the digital photo category at our county fair next week. This will be the 3rd or 4th year for entering photos. Every year, they get a couple blue ribbons, and at least one red. Last year, the judge did not like that one of the girls antiqued a picture of a flag (it looked like an old newspaper photo), and without explanation gave her a red. (Part of the whole judging thing is to give the student a reason for a ribbon, be it a blue, red, or whatever. With the red and below, the kids are supposed to learn what they did wrong, so they can fix it for next time.)

My question - do any of you have experience in judging kids at county fairs? If you do, what are you looking for in the digital category. So far, the only winners have been the simple enlargements. I was under the impression that a little more creativity could be used with the digital photos to set them apart from conventional.

So far, the photos that they have picked out are some of their best ever. Some will look great as enlargements, but others would be fun to play with.

After the fair, I will let you know how they did, and maybe post a picture or two that they enter.

[buzzsaw]

My only thought is that they weren't impressed with a photoshopped image. We might like what crazy things we can do to pictures, but a judge is probably judging a picture for what it is and anything that is given a distorted photoshop look is probably dropped from consideration. What types of things are you photographing?

[Steve Foss]

I have not judged images at fairs.

But judging, unless there's a posted set of criteria, and even to some degree if there is, is very subjective. What one judge sees as excellent another wouldn't look twice at.

Are there set judging criteria? Because digital is widely seen as a way to easily depart from the "truth" of film photography, it's possible this judge didn't like what was done to the photo for that reason. But that's just speculation, and what one judge experienced at this type of contest tells you may be nothing close to the reason the judge gave the red ribbon.

Why don't you ask the judge about it specifically. If a red and below ribbon is meant to be a learning experience and the judge didn't offer comment on what the learning moment was, you, or your daughter, should ask. You also could enter some straight enlargements as well as some that have been played with, and see what the judges this year think about those altered images.

The other thing is, I'm sure your daughters are proud of their work if it satisfies them. Ribbons and compliments are nice, and we need all the encouragement we can get, but photography is art, and art is about satisfying the need to create in ourselves. I'm glad they're doing things they like to do.

We look forward to seeing some of those images, and good luck to those young shooters.

[fishinchicks]

Thanks for the reply's.

Usually the only thing different the girls do to the photos is change the color - as in sepia, antique, newspaper, etc.

The exhibit suggestions list: a computer enhanced enlargement, a photographic image which has been completely digitally processed, and the final suggestions says "digital photography exhibits are any exhibits taken with a digital camera or any photo not taken with a digital camera, but digitally enhanced in any way.

The conventional photography category is more specific as to what the judges are looking for.

I am not upset that my daughters occasionally receive red ribbons, sometimes that is what their work deserves (the more time you spend, the better the project is a much repeated phrase in our house) It would be nice if the judges and the students had a few more guidelines and suggestions for the digital category.

As for talking to the judge after the fair last year, she made herself very unapproachable. The judges decisions are final, which I whole heartedly agree with, but I would have liked to hear her side of why she doesn't feel the need to offer explanations. I wasn't the only adult that was upset by her attitude, so she may not be back at our fair this year, anyway.

I was just curious what some of the more experienced shooters think about this. I will admit, I do not know nearly as much about photography as I would like. I have a really good point and shoot digital in the inexpensive range. The girls can do wonders with my Mother's Day gift!

One photo that will be printed and shown is currently the wallpaper on our desktop, taken by my 12 year old. We are proud of our daughter's work no matter what the judges think at the fair.

We really like looking at the subject matter that the State Fair trip winners have posted at the State Fair every year. There are many talented youth with a great eye for composition, color, and style. If you go to the fair this year, stop by the 4-H building and check out the winners. You will be impressed!

[Steve Foss]

Well, fishinchicks, given how you described the guidelines, it looks like the organizers have drawn a firm line in the sand between digital and film.

Even a film slide or negative that's been scanned into a digital form to be printed takes some digital "enhancement" to make it turn out like it looks on the slide, and apparently that would have to be entered in the digital category. And any digital image coming out of a DSLR will need some manipulation, such as saturation, sharpening, etc., to be true to life.

I'm not going to get into a long speil about how film printing and enlarging have used their own enhancement techniques for generations, or how using different lenses to create different perspectives also alters what is "real." Fact is, while film users can manipulate, digital users can manipulate far more easily, and I understand the judges' desires to differentiate between the two.

In professional photography circles, while there is great debate on this point, in the end the reality of the image, the desire to make it true to what the mind remembers, comes down in either format to the integrity of the photographer.

I don't know how they label each image to be judged, but you may consider labeling those that have been significantly altered as "photo illustrations," which makes it clear they have been changed and also says loud and clear that you've used modern methods to take a basic image and change it to the way the artist's eye wants it to be seen. As long as it's clear what's been done, so the viewer knows what he or she is looking at, it's all good. I mean, what if abstract or impressionist painters had been all caught up in what was "real" to those who went before them? Art should stretch the boundaries.

It's too darn bad that judge was afraid to engage with the contestants. What a different experience it would have been had she just waved those young shooters over to her after the contest and started talking to them about those images and what she liked and didn't like about each one. Standoffish people like that shouldn't judge the work of our children, regardless whether it's a prize Holstein, a lovely Rhode Island red or a photograph. That judge passed up a precious opportunity at a learning moment, and the loss is as much hers as it is the contestants'.

Hope your girls and you have a great time, and remember to share some of that work with us. We're all judges, after all, and we know what each of us likes.

[Swimmer]

Quote:

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We really like looking at the subject matter that the State Fair trip winners have posted at the State Fair every year. There are many talented youth with a great eye for composition, color, and style. If you go to the fair this year, stop by the 4-H building and check out the winners. You will be impressed!

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I will definitely visit that exibition, if we're lucky enough to make it to the fair this yr.

Not sure if I'm visualizing the photo correctly, but perhaps the judge thought the composition/alteration was somehow degrading to the Flag? Thus her stiff attitude too.

[fishinchicks]

Here is the flag picture. I like it because the colors of the flag stand out more than if it were the original shot.