Carp Chumming Time Capsules

[Tyler Holm]

I’ve used this method before a few times and though I would share.

Buy a gallon of the whole kernel sweet corn. Dump it into a gallon ice cream pail and if there is room, add water till the pail is full. Freeze it solid. Go to an arts and craft store and buy some netting material. The holes in this netting material must be small enough so corn cannot slip through.

Remove the frozen ice corn ball from the pail and place it in the center of your netting material. Now wrap your netting completely around the ice ball and tie it tightly at the top.

Before you go fishing, you’ll then need to tie a rope or piece of heavy fishing like to the ice ball or netting. Make sure this not is secure and be sure the length is ample considering the depth your are fishing.

Drop this ice ball into the water near where your going to be fishing. It will sink to the bottom. This will slowly release scent as the ice melts. Make sure you bring in the netting and corn before your done fishing. You may also want to bring it in when you catch one as it can easily get tangled.

It’s a good idea to still throw corn chum as you normally would. With a little practice, this can be an effective method to lure carp to your fishing hole. I didn’t give every single detail, but use some of your own ingenuity to create your own methodology that catches fish.

[Scenic]

Chumming within the state of Minnesota is not legal. It falls under littering.

[Tyler Holm]

Thanks for the warning Jeff. I've only practiced this method in South Dakota where chumming is perfectly fine. Make sure you check your state regulations before practicing chumming.

[barnyard]

Actually, it is only illegal to chum with vast amounts. I have asked several enforcement agents about chumming, all of them have said that it's not a problem unless we use so much that it either rots on the bank or causes an odor problem in the water.

We were prebaiting a spot and were approached by an officer. He asked what we were doing, we told him and he asked when we would be back. We told him and he stopped by when we were fishing.

Turns out, he was curious as to the size of fish we were catching.

When we chum, we usually have at least 1-5gallon bucket of corn.

Clean up after yourself and you will not have a problem.

The funniest "chum moment" was on the Horseshoe chain. We were experimenting with fermented soybeans. Holy dump, do they stink.

We had tossed about half a bucket and were starting to catch fish when a DNR guy stopped. He agreed that the beans stunk and was shocked when we caught a cat and it puked up some beans in the bottom of the boat. He also said that there was no problem chumming the small amount that we were using.

He did question the wisdom.

Tom B

[barnyard]

And to add to the above.

We use spods and spod rods for our chumming. When we 1st started, we were concerned that when we were casting the spod, we needed to reel in a line so that we wouldn't get a ticket for fishing with too many rods.

The 1st time we were checked, we asked about it. The officer said that as long as the spod did not have any hooks, we did not have to reel in a line as the spod rig was not capable of catching fish.

Every check after, each guy gave us the same answer.

Tom B

[Lunker]

That doesn't necessarily mean that all wardens will be as nice about it.

[barnyard]

Quote:

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That doesn't necessarily mean that all wardens will be as nice about it.

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I agree and we were concerned about that and called St Paul. They basically repeated what all the wardens had told us.

That was 3 years ago. We've been using spods to chum for carp for 4 years now, this summer will make 5.

Tom B

[Blue Kayak]

I've never tried this, but I wonder if anyone on the forum has? In England they use PVA (Poly Vinyl Alcohol) bags, about the size of sandwich bags. These bags dissolve very quickly when wet. You can fill them with dry bait (chum) and put your baited hook inside. When the bag dissolves your bait is in the area with contents from the bag. Wacker baits sells them in the USA.

[Dennis Steele]

I do question the legality of this practice but must admitt, at times I will throw out a burlap bag full of rotting fish (tied to the boat) while fishing for channel cats.

I have wondered what amount of material in the water is considered littering. The scent trail left by the solids or only the solids themselves?

I only throw out the bag when I arrive on the spot and take it when I leave the spot.

It does work. If there are cats in the area it usually triggers a feeding response from them and we do well.

[barnyard]

I've used the PVA bags, or tried would be a better term. The theory is that the bags dissolve when you cast them out. The problem that we had is that we use field corn boiled in our super secret, super bait and your bait has to be perfectly dry to use in a PVA bag. Your hands have to be perfectly dry also.

If your hands or bait are damp, the bags start to dissolve. Bill Engvall talks about camping with "rapidly dissolving toilet paper." Using damp bait with damp hands and PVA bags will make that joke even funnier.

If you want to try PVA bags and are going to the Sturgeon Excursion, I'll give ya a couple to experiment with. Not that you would use them at the Sturgeon Excursion....., but I'll be there and could bring the bags.... I doubt that I will use them.....

As far as the amount it would take to be considered littering. The DNR office in St Paul and all of the officers that we have talked to said that it would either be an extreme amount, or an amount that left a mess or an amount that caused others to file a complaint. They all agreed that a 5-gallon bucket of corn would not cross that threshold.

The "chimming issue" for us, has been as big a misunderstanding as the "can't throw back rough fish" thing.

Alot of people are under the impression that it is illegal to throw back live carp and suckers and that they must be killed and either thrown back or left on the bank to rot. Even after pointing out in the manual where it says NOT to do that, we have still had arguments with people about it.

I think chumming falls into that same category.

Tom B

[barnyard]

While I didn't fish it this year, there are quite a few people that chum during Carpfest at the Coon Rapids dam. Participating in that event was what prompted researching the subject. We chummed and wanted to make sure that we were legal and could not be disqualified.

Tom B

[Tyler Holm]

Barnyard,

See you at the Sturgeon Excursion. We'll talk PVA bags.

[Blue Kayak]

Barnyard -- thanks for the first hand experience with PVA bags. I think they were developed to be used in hospital laundries for contaminated bedding and clothes. So, fishing is an incidental use. Maybe there are some other things that would work better. But I guess that whatever dissolves in water will be tough to keep dry when you are fishing.

If you google "Minnesota Statutes" you'll find an online site with all of Minnesota's statutes and rules. There are a number of ways to search them including keywords. I searched both statutes and rules for "chum chumming" and found no entries. When searching for "litter littering" there were quite a few entries. However, I did not see any that seemed to apply to chumming. Not saying that I couldn't have missed something though. Something causing objectionable odors was mentioned, as was cigarette filters.

[barnyard]

In Europe, where PVA bags are more popular, many fish with boilies and dry mixes or method mixes. I can see where they would work alot better in a PVA bag.

Our preferred bait though is wet and to dry it out so that it would work in a PVA bag is an awful lot of work.

To understand this all better, knowing where I came from and my fishing philosophy might help.

For 15+ years, I was die hard muskie guy, MI member and all that. I worked my can off fishing for muskies. For me, carp fishing is the antithesis to muskie fishing.

Muskie fishing is hard work. It involves standing and casting for hours on end, concentrating on the structure being worked, cast placement, lure selection and action. Muskie fishing is work, both physical and mental.

Carp fishing, is sitting in a lawn chair, waiting for the bait clicker to scream. For me, carp fishing is a relaxing diversion, with the bonus of cranking in a 20-30 lb fish.

PVA bags, boilies and all that, to me, unnecessisarily (bad sp) complicate things. We fish under the belief that American fish are not as edumacated as their Euro cousins, so why go to all the trouble, when simple works just as well.

That's not to say that we don't use some Euro ideas. We use bait needles (homemade devices, but copies of Euro products) to thread our corn (field corn, you call it "maize") onto hair rigs (that we tie ourselves while waiting for the next bite.)

We use circle hooks with absolutely amazing success. According to diehard Euro carpers, circle hooks don't really have a place in the carp angler's box.

We used to use Euro flavoring agents, but after our favorite flavor dissappeared, we started experimenting with Kool Aid. For the most part, it works just as well and is significantly cheaper.

Now, I am not an expert on Euro methods, but we do pretty darn well with our bastardized technique.

I bought the PVA bags during a day of insanity. A day when I thought I neeeded to make carp fishing more complicated than it needs to be.

So, I will bring my PVA bags to the Sturgeon Excursion, get rid of them and I can return to Mayberry and fish the simple life again.

Does that make sense?????

Tom B

[CatManLee]

This is funny, because when I called the "Main DNR Office" I was told it is illegal in Minnesota no matter how you chum. I don't think there is anything wrong with chumming as long as you don't litter plastics and things like that, but if it's natural stuff, blood & guts, fish parts etc, that should be allowed, simply because you can find that stuff already in the water. But again, plain and simple IT IS ILLEGAL TO CHUM IN MINNESOTA, So if you get caught it's your own fault.

[Blue Kayak]

I just sent the following e-mail to the DNR so hopefully we can get it in writing with the statute or rule cited. I'll post their response here.

Greetings,

I participate in a forum primarily related to fishing (www.fishingminnesota.com). Recently there has been quite a discussion on whether or not is legal to chum for fish. I searched the Minnesota statutes and rule web page and found no entries when searching for "chum chumming" in either the statutes or rules. I did find quite a few entries for "litter littering"; however, none of these entries seemed to relate to chumming.

Is it illegal to chum while fishing? If so, what is the legal citation prohibiting chumming?

[barnyard]

I sent almost the same email to the DNR on Sunday night.

No response yet....

Tom B

[Blue Kayak]

I haven't heard anything yet from the DNR either.

[Bobb-o]

if you got a ticket while chumming for carp or cats wouldnt that almost be the same as throwing your sunflower seeds out the window of your car?

[CatManLee]

Basically yah, but there are plenty of other laws that make no sense. So why question this one? I see your point, I really do. Heck if it was legal to do so, I would chum when out catfishing, it couldn't hurt to try.

But my point is this, if it's the law...Obey it. To me this law is exactly like the one that says "Only one line per angler in Minnesota" when fishing open water. Why? Who knows? You can't keep more fish because of another line, but you could catch more. So whats wrong with that? I don't know, but thats how I see this law as well, honestly it doesn't make alot of sense, but what are you going to do?

[Tyler Holm]

Here's something to think about...

Here in Rochester we have a lake called Silver Lake. It holds honkers year round and they will come and eat food out of your hand. There are also great numbers of carp in Silver Lake. There are machines that you can buy a cup of food to throw out and feed these geese. This food consists of wheat, grains, oats, and corn.

Evidently it’s OK to scatter this "goose food" around the shoreline and in the water. If some of the corn drops to the bottom, is that chumming?

Rather than paying for this "goose food", I've seen people bring bread, corn, and other "goose food" to feed these geese with. Cops commonly frequent this area and they don’t seem to bother anybody for scattering this “goose food”.

[Blue Kayak]

I received the following e-mail from a DNR employee:

“We use a combination of statutes to determine that chumming is illegal: Minnesota Rule 609.68 Unlawful deposit of garbage, litter, or like, MS 97C.325 (A1) Prohibited methods of taking fish and MS 97A.025 Ownership of Wild Animals. There is not a specific rule that states that one can not chum.”

I tried to find MN Rule 609.68, but it does not exist. I believe the DNR meant to cite MN Statute 609.68 which is shown below along with MN Rule 6105.0210 which repeats the statute and gives the penalties for violating the statute. MN Statute 97A.025 Ownership of Wild Animals seems to have no relevance; I don’t know why it was cited.

At first glance the DNR response seems to imply that chumming is illegal in Minnesota. However, if you check the referenced statutes I think Tom B was exactly right when he said, “It's not a problem unless we use so much that it either rots on the bank or causes an odor problem in the water.” I also think Dennis’s method of suspending rotting fish in a bag and then retrieving the bag is also legal. Likewise, I don’t think there is a violation with Tyler’s iced corn. But, I’m not a lawyer. Here are the statutes. Maybe someone with legal training has another opinion.

MN Statute: 97C.325 Prohibited methods of taking fish.

(a) Except as specifically authorized, a person may not

take fish with:

(1) explosives, chemicals, drugs, poisons, lime, medicated

bait, fish berries, or other similar substances;

(2) substances or devices that kill, stun, or affect the

nervous system of fish;

(3) nets, traps, trot lines, or snares; or

(4) spring devices that impale, hook, or capture fish.

( If a person possesses a substance or device listed in

paragraph (a) on waters, shores, or islands, it is presumptive

evidence that the person is in violation of this section.

© The commissioner may, by rule, allow the use of a

nonmotorized device with a recoil mechanism to take fish through

the ice.

MN Statute: 609.68 Unlawful deposit of garbage, litter, or like.

Whoever unlawfully deposits garbage, rubbish, cigarette

filters, debris from fireworks, offal, or the body of a dead

animal, or other litter in or upon any public highway, public

waters or the ice thereon, shoreland areas adjacent to rivers or

streams as defined by section 103F.205, public lands, or,

without the consent of the owner, private lands or water or ice

thereon, is guilty of a petty misdemeanor.

HIST: 1963 c 753 art 1 s 609.68; 1971 c 23 s 68; 1988 c 685 s

36; 1990 c 391 art 8 s 56; 2003 c 28 art 1 s 19; 1Sp2003 c 2 art

8 s 12

6105.0210 PUBLIC USE OF WATERS AND LANDS WITHIN WILD, SCENIC,

AND RECREATIONAL RIVER LAND USE DISTRICTS.

Subp. 2. Restrictions. Restrictions:

A. Pursuant to Minnesota Statutes, section 609.68,

whoever unlawfully deposits garbage, rubbish, offal, or the body

of a dead animal, or other litter in or upon any public highway,

public waters or the ice thereon, public lands, or without the

consent of the owner, private lands or water or ice thereon, may

be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 90 days or to

payment of a fine of not more than $100.

MN Statute: 97A.025 Ownership of wild animals.

The ownership of wild animals of the state is in the state,

in its sovereign capacity for the benefit of all the people of

the state. A person may not acquire a property right in wild

animals, or destroy them, unless authorized under the game and

fish laws, sections 84.091 to 84.15, or sections 17.47 to 17.498.

HIST: 1986 c 386 art 1 s 4; 1991 c 309 s 13; 1996 c 410 s 58

[Tyler Holm]

Jerry,

Nice job on the research. It's nice to have information for the authorites.

[Blue Kayak]

I received a more detailed post from the DNR this afternoon. Here is the post from the DNR.

===Start of DNR Post=========>

Thank you for your question about the legality of chumming in Minnesota. We have no law that specifically uses the term "chumming." Instead, we have a variety of laws that have application to this activity.

Based on Minnesota Statues 609.68 it is unlawful to deposit animal parts or the body of dead animals in a public water. So chumming with animal parts or whole bodies would be illegal.

Based on Minnesota Statutes 97C.325, it is illegal to take fish using chemicals, drugs, medicated baits, etc. Also under Minnesota Statutes 97C.341, it is illegal to use game fish, goldfish, or carp for bait. This would mean that any fish food, corn, or other similar substance with these items in it could not be used for chumming.

Based on Minnesota Statutes 97C.065 it is illegal to let any substance enter or be disposed of in state waters in quantities that injure wild animals. So what is a quantity of corn, fish food, or other similar substances that would be illegal? My answer is that it depends on the type of water body, current water quality, weather conditions, health of the fish, cumulative effects, etc. So, I can't tell you that a bucket of corn is ok, when under the right conditions it could cause a fish kill. Instead, it is an area of the law that we are considering clarifying as it relates to chumming.

<=====End of DNR Post============

I don't follow the logic in paragraph 3. I don't see how food products like corn or bread are equivalent to,"(1) explosives, chemicals, drugs, poisons, lime, medicated bait, fish berries, or other similar substances;" mentioned in Statute 97C.325. However, I suppose a conservation officer could consider these items to be litter.

[Tyler Holm]

From the sounds of it you can't use medicated baits to take fish. What about Power bait & Gulp. Those are medicated with chemicals. I don't see how these are different than fishing with corn. This is an entirely different subject that chumming.

I give up with the laws or lack there of on this matter. I'll continue to fish using tactics that are environmently friendly, and not harmful fish.

Once again, the information is appreciated.