Toyoders.

[JohnMickish]

Ok, is this a good move or a bad move. The only problem I have is that since they don't have a "cast iron, single cam pushrod production V-8" is that they get a clean sheet of paper (like dodge did 10 years ago) and Ford and Chevy are still using 50's technology for their engine blocks.

I think Toyota will have an unfair advantage in the engine technology by not having to sort things out for 30 years (current small block rules started in 1977 I believe) to be competitive right from the start.

One of two things should have happened a few years ago, either all manufacturers should have been given the change to come up with a new design or maybe have a generic spec block/head/crankshaft and let each manufacturer do what they want with it. They already have common templates why not a common block?

[OUTDOORNUT]

Just one more indication that Japan is going to take over the world......without firing a shot!

[harvey lee]

They can always go with a spec engine,but then that opens up a whole new can of worms.It would take the motor out of the game and then you would be down to driver and set-up.

[JohnMickish]

Not the whole motor, just the block head and crank. That would leave each engine builder the opertunity to use their own rod length and piston design as well as intake manifold and rocker arms. There is alot of power/tuneability in piston design and rod length, let alone the intake. Just a thought that would be nice but will never happen, like yellow flag laps don't count and if you cause a caution you go tail end charlie.

[harvey lee]

I would think that the block,head and crank would work,but I also never see that changing.Sending someone to the rear for causing a caution would be great but that also will never happen.A local track that we race at will send you to the trunk for causing a caution if they feel like it and alot of times the wrong one gets the trunk.

[marine_man]

Here's more info on who's going to be running toyota's in 07...

Toyota announces NASCAR Nextel Cup teams for 2007

January 24, 2006

By Bruce Martin SportsTicker Contributing Editor

CONCORD, North Carolina (Ticker) - The Toyota invasion of NASCAR continued Tuesday as the Japanese automaker announced the teams that will be a part of its program in the 2007 Nextel Cup series.

Bill Davis Racing, Michael Waltrip Racing and newly formed Team Red Bull will each campaign two Toyota Camrys in America's most popular racing series.

Toyota officially announced it would move up to the Nextel Cup and Busch Series next season after its successful effort in the Craftsman Truck series.

Although the Camry is built at an assembly plant in Georgetown, Kentucky and has been the highest-selling car in the United States eight of the last nine years, the company's heritage is in Japan.

NASCAR long has been the showcase of the American automotive industry, but Toyota's inclusion breaks with tradition.

"Surprise, it's me," said team owner Bill Davis, who first partnered with Toyota in the truck circuit in 2004.

Davis' two-car Nextel Cup team uses the Dodge Charger. However, the team has had its factory support pulled by Daimler-Chrysler over the past three years because of its involvement with Toyota.

Waltrip, a two-time Daytona 500 winner who has left Dale Earnhardt Inc. to be an owner-driver in Nextel Cup this season, also will oversee a two-car operation with Toyota in 2007.

"As surprised as you are to see Bill, you have to wonder what I'm doing here," Waltrip said Tuesday at Lowe's Motor Speedway as part of NASCAR's annual media tour.

"When I went out to see what Toyota had to offer, I thought, 'Darn, if I can plug into this, I can compete with the rest of these guys in the Cup,'" he continued. "Thus, the dream was born for me top be a team owner. Now, I've got cars I can race these people with."

A native of Owensboro, Kentucky, Waltrip believes the Camry will be a thoroughbred in NASCAR.

"I'm not going to bring a mule to the Kentucky Derby," he said. "I'm bringing a race car to the Daytona 500."

Waltrip follows older brother Darrell, who was an owner-driver in Nextel Cup in the 1990s before retiring after the 2000 season. Darrell Waltrip also is a spokesman for and a part-time driver of Toyota trucks.

"DW encouraged me to operate my team as a business," Michael Waltrip said.

Team Red Bull will be managed by Marty Gaunt and has purchased the old Penske Racing South shop in Mooresville. It is in the process of forming the team and will announce drivers later this year.

"We haven't sat down and said whether we will have a young driver or a veteran driver," Gaunt said. "That will all develop this year."

[lawdog]

Quote:

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A local track that we race at will send you to the trunk for causing a caution if they feel like it and alot of times the wrong one gets the trunk.

---

AMEN! Then you get the "involvement rule" talk too where even if you didn't cause it, if you stop to avoid it you are at the back too. What a crock and they are all judgment calls too. Don't think at some point you won't get totally screwed on these deals, because if you race for any length of time, you will. I personally think I got honked three times just last year on this type of stuff. No consistency in these judgment calls and NASCAR doesn't need any more inconsistent rules!

[JohnMickish]

Lawdog brings a good point to this rule, but don't you think if your local track had 57 cameras and instant telemtry the chances of getting caught in the "involvement rule" go significantly down? All NASCAR has to do is realize that the 8 and 24 are no different than the 66 and 22. Oh, who am I kidding.

[eyepatrol]

The Daytona 500 will no longer be the Great American Race...it will be the Great International Race.

I'm usually more on the passive side of the line, but I'm not all that enthused about this occurring. I've always thought of NASCAR as an American sport in my mind...one we could call our own. I don't mind foreign drivers taking a shot at being a driver...it's like foreign players in Basketball, football, or baseball. But how many people would welcome a football team named the Japanese Red Sundevils or Japanese Islanders or something like that? I mean...let's look at the sport's name...NASCAR...National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing. Does it now need to be IASCAR? International Association for Stock Car Auto Racing??? I just think NASCAR opened up a can of worms when they allowed it to happen in the truck series.

I wonder how the "good 'ol boys" from down south will handle this...the ones that bleed red, white and blue....will they cheer the driver, or boo the car? I guess time will tell....maybe we'll all become accustomed to Toyota being a part of the sport, just like we've become accustomed to nearly everything in our homes being foreign made.

Alright...I've said enough.

Just my $0.01 worth here.

[OUTDOORNUT]

What saddens me the most is how quickly D.W., Mickey, Bill Davis, and Larry Mac jumped at the chance at some of the sweet Yen. Bill Davis is a putz and I really don't see his org. going anywhere, with or without help of the Jap's. (about the same as when the Petty's thought Dodge was going to save them)

I will forever boo and boycott any Toyota, any sponsor(s) on their cars/trucks, and any driver willing to go with them.

So now we will have two prodominate American sponsors in NAPA and CAT all riding around on the hood of a Yota! Hey Joe Blue Collar construction worker, you operate a CAT everyday, why not be a fan of the Bill Davis CAT Toyota?? A what? HeII no! My business is also done at any NAPA, hello Checkers, Bumber2bumber, etc.

France Jr. is really starting to [PoorWordUsage] me off! All about the $$! What a tool!

[eyepatrol]

Quote:

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What saddens me the most is how quickly D.W., Mickey, Bill Davis, and Larry Mac jumped at the chance at some of the sweet Yen.

---

And these guys are suppose to be "ambassadors" of the sport.

[lawdog]

Quote:

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Quote:

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What saddens me the most is how quickly D.W., Mickey, Bill Davis, and Larry Mac jumped at the chance at some of the sweet Yen.

---

And these guys are suppose to be "ambassadors" of the sport.

---

They are, NASCAR loves that these guys help bring Toyota's money into the sport. It also goes along with their "diversity" stuff. Face it fellas, this isn't our same old NASCAR...

[OUTDOORNUT]

From the press release:

This is big news from a business standpoint. If Toyota is willing to come and spend money developing a NASCAR stocker, then what's to stop BMW, Audi, Nissan, et al, from doing the same?

If you look at what it costs from a competition standpoint, the highest-dollar NASCAR team has a budget that is approximately one-tenth of a top-notch Formula One operation. This excludes Ferrari, which spends the equivalent of the gross domestic product of Bolivia on its F1 racers.

To the American audience, NASCAR's exposure is better than F1's, and the company does not have to sponsor the Cup and Busch teams it fields, though Toyota does sponsor its factory Truck Series team for Bill Davis Racing.

But Toyota said Monday that its Nextel Cup teams won't follow the pattern that made it so successful in the Craftsman Truck Series. Toyota always has heavily supported the teams financially and provided the same engineering help, and that will change in 2007.

Perfect! They can get American $$ to sponsor their cars and gain a fan base!!!

Team owner Robert Yates, who has fielded Fords for nearly 20 years in the Nextel Cup Series, agreed that NASCAR's strict templates will make it tough for Toyota to dominate.

"I know our whole point is to race on Sunday and sell on Monday, so that's the part that I want to make sure we kick their butt," Yates said. "I'm sure they want to kick ours, but I think NASCAR handles the competition side of it so we can be competitive."

Thank You Mr. Yates, glad to see there is still some fire left from the red, white, and blue Americans!!!

A short list of some of the Sponsors that are backing the Japanese Automaker (Some might [PoorWordUsage] you off)

CAT

Napa

Coke

Allied Steel Buildings

U.S. Army

Bosch

Sherwin Williams

Lincoln Eletric

Waste Management

Rally's/Checker's Burgers/Fries/Colas

Remington

[lawdog]

One other thing to remember though Nut, I think all the Camry's that Toyota sells in the US are built in North Carolina, whereas my last several Chevy trucks were built in Canada.... In some respects they are as much an American car company as GM and Ford are aside from their headquarters location.

[NAPAFISH]

I heard that these racing Camrys will be coming out of Kentucky. Nut I think you pushing this issue the wrong way being that we are close allies with Japan

[JohnMickish]

I just wonder how the limit on teams is going to work here. Toyota operates all of it's truck teams as one team with off-shoots. All the chassis and engines come from one shop and sent out the the teams. Isn't this what they are trying to stop Roush from doing?

[OUTDOORNUT]

Dog & NAPA,

Is it going to be O.K. when Japan comes in and buys up one or all of the Big 3? Heck Honda already has their fingers in the GM group. (running Honda motors in the Saturn) By the way that new Honda truck looks way too much like the Avalanche. So your going to be o.k trading in your Chevy and driving around sporting a Honda/Toyota/etc. emblem on the grill?? Last time I checked they are still referred to as "Foreign" They are "assembled" in the U.S., but the $$ is going back to Japan.

It goes the same for Government agencies buying "foreign" cars/trucks. The U.S. government has no reason to be buying anything besides U.S. automobiles.

What it really comes down to is how is Japan making money building cars and trucks, but yet the U.S. Auto Makers are closing plants, laying off workers and recording record losses???? Maybe a little cancer called the UAW?? Heck they buy the steel from us, ship it across the world and make a car with it, ship it back across the world and still turn profits year after year!!

So Joe Smith is making product "X" in Luverne, he hires some of your family, friends, and keeps the community working and making money, but across the border in Iowa they are also making product "X" would you fell o.k. buying/accepting Iowa's product? We are friends with Iowa, so in NAPAFISH's mind it is o.k., but because of it your plant in Luverne is suffering, now there has to be layoffs, plant closers, etc.

I guess I may be a lot outspoken, but I know I'm not the only one afraid of what is going on in America as a whole. Basscather seems to have some opposition to this also, so thanks B.C. Maybe we are the only ones left that believe our forefathers fought and died for the American Dream, so yeah I'm a little upset to see that dream being overtaken by the "foreigns"

[JohnMickish]

There is a thread in the outdoor discusions area about this very subject. It seems we all want the "beAmericansupportAmericagoredwhiteandblueprotectamericanjobs" (in Mikey speak) but we all all cheap bass turds and won't pay the extra few dollars to purchase American. The job you save by purchasing American made might be your own.

[NAPAFISH]

I lifted this from a Time magazine article entitled

How Foreign Plants are Booming

Why do overseas firms seem to thrive, building profitable cars with US workers, while Detroit languishes?? For example, in the first quarter of 2005, Nissan made $1063 on every vehicle sold in North America, while GM lost $2311, according to Harbour Consulting. For starters, the transplants, generally with reputations for higher quality than American brands, dont offer the deep discounts that US makers employ. And foreign companies dont carry the legacy costs that drag US companies down. Workers at foreign companies'nonunion shops make roughly the same in wages and benefits as unionized employees in Detroit. The Asian and European firms arent saddled with crippling pension and health care obligations. GM spends $1525 per vehicle in the US on health care compared with $300 per vehicle at Toyota. Thanks to newer technology, the foreign manufacturers are more effcient too. The Big Three are closing the production gap. Gm takes 23 hours of labor to produce one vehicle, down from 32 hrs in 98. But that is still longer than Toys 19.4 and Niss 18.3. The real question is what kind of cars do Americans want.

I am not endosring this article nor do I endorse Toy or Niss. I think that the big three should manufacture a car that consumers would demand

[turn_in_poachers]

I dont see what the problem is letting Toyota enter in Nascar. Seems to me like this is turning more into a "Americans vs. Foreigners" thread. Come on, why does foreigners and Japan have to be in quotation marks? Implying something here? Who cares what kind of car they drive. Doesnt it come down to the driver and his skills to pilot the machine? Yeah, you got a fast car, but if some schmo cant drive worth a rats (Contact US Regarding This Word), its useless. I see this discussion going on everytime the topic of domestic vs imports comes up, or what some people refer to as CORN VS. RICE. Is it because the domestic racers feel threatened? Maybe there's a new top dog in town that might actually win. Seeing what Toyota did with the Truck series, shoot, I think they have just a good of a chance as anybody to win. Why do you think the Camry was the best selling car now for a couple years? Its not because its a "foreign" car, its because its reliable. They run good and they last a long time. Is it wrong to want a car thats reliable? Am I getting frowned upon purchasing a foreign car? Yeah, thats a pretty pathetic point of view for someone to have. Im a big fan of domestic cars. I was this close to buying a new Ram to pull a fishing boat. I love the old classics. Who doesnt love Detroit Muscle? But then again, I love driving my car 250,000 miles with no problems and just regular oil changes too. Ive had good experiences with "foreign" cars, and Ill continue to.

Seeing that this is a fishing thread, Ill bring up another related topic. Read somewhere else in another forum that some gentleman would never EVER buy foreign made fishing equipment. Made in the USA all the way. He felt they were inferior. Hey, thats fine with me. But how does your Yamaha 4 stroke run? Does your Shimano/Daiwa reel feel nice on your Shimano rod? I bet its a nice setup to throw those new Lucky Craft pointers you just bought. I sure do love those Senkos, but since its a guy with a last name of Yamamoto who designed them, I aint buying any. Do whatever you please. But think about it. Whats "made" in the USA nowadays? Like it or not, most everything is made overseas now and shipped here.

Arent we all just "foreigners" here? Where are your great great grandfathers from? I think the only people who can call themselves Americans is Native Americans. I dont endorse Nissan or Toyota, but I think Napafish is right when he said "I think that the big three should manufacture a car that consumers would demand." I drive a Toyota. Is that a bad thing?

[JohnMickish]

I believe NAPA's article to be correct as I have read similar articles. Here is what I don't understand. Pensions are dragging American companies down, Social security will be bankrupt in 30 years. It seems that the government has taken the approach we are not smart enough to figure out driving without seatbelt is a bad idea but we are smart enough to manage out own 401k's.

I would be very curious to see if any of these plants from the "other" makers offer any kind of retirement. Maybe a guy is just supposed to work till you die from now on??

[PERCHJR]

Just another way of CASHCAR selling out, thanks to "Baby Brian France"!!!

GOOD LUCK AND GOOD FISHING!!!

[eyepatrol]

I don't think it's American's vs. foreigners here. In my opinion, what I'm wanting is tradition....NASCAR had traditionally been an American sport with American brand cars. Every day we see and use foreign made items. I think it's nice to call something your own, from your own country. NASCAR was that. Change is inevitible, yes. But sometimes change just doesn't feel right, and sometimes, change isn't right. I don't like the change NASCAR made...simply put. Nice thing is that I don't have to, but am I going to change their mind about it...of course not. It would probably take the vast majority of the fan base to do something like that.

I myself try to keep to the subject in which the post was written about, and that is Toyota coming into NASCAR...and more so...the cup series. Talk about whether a car is a good reliable car for personal use, or whether we're going to use a foreign made fishing product....those are for other forums or should be made as a separate post.

Lastly (and this should be a separate topic), but I would say no, we aren't all just foreigners here. Yes, the Native Americans were some of the first people to be here, but how far back in history do you really want to go??? Hundreds of years...thousands of years??? This is the United States of America...has been for over 200 years. Those of us that were born here, live here and are citizens of this country are not foreigners...we are citizens and inhabitants of this country. There isn't anyone alive today who is a legal citizen of this country who should be called a foreigner or consider themselves as one...that's my opinion, but law also states such too.

[imgonnamisshim]

OK- So I really had no intention of saying anything on this one, but I have been reading so many forums the last few days, and this is one of the only ones I actually feel I may have a valid opinion on. First off, in reference to Toyota cars entering the cup-it's a change no doubt, but what an interesting one at that. I see two sides of it-those Camrys are (Contact US Regarding This Word) fast, and I happen to have a friend that races ASA around here, and he traded in his big truck to drive that because of the speed...Next side, those big exhaust pipes that tend to find their way on to Toyotas or any of the other foreign brands. I want to attempt to illustrate my mind wandering through this. Imagine one of those huge three inch exhaust pipes on the back of ______'s (insert driver name) car. Yep-that would take a whole new realm of "getting used to" for me.

I have been watching NASCAR with my dad since I was a young girl, and I was reciting stats, car numbers, crew chiefs, etc., at age 5. I grew up watching the Petty name grow and evolve, and I think no matter what car, brand or otherwise, is out there, THE NEED FOR SPEED is why we watch. If I can still yell at the tv and get that overwhelming rush of adrenaline at every caution, I don't care what kind of car it is-BRING IT ON!!!!!!!!!!

Have a great weekend!!!!! Don't forget-Bud Shootout is two weeks from tomorrow!!!!!!!

[turn_in_poachers]

Thats very well put. I agree. It doesnt matter what kind of car it is. As long as its going fast with a good driver, thats all that matters. By the way, I cant stand those big muffler's that sound like theres a big hole in it. Cant even hear yourself think with all that racket.