Ice Fishing

[hanson]

What do you cat guys do when the water turns hard?

Does ice fishing have an equivalent to catfishing, other than icefishing for catfish? Last time I checked, baitclickers and ice fishing don't go hand in hand.

Don't worry, I've got the icefishing for cats thing down pretty well on one of my favorite MN lakes.

[I Da Man]

I watch Big Cat Safari..over and over and over again.

Clean up the reels, new line on some, gear up hooks, sinkers and swivels for next year, from my favorite connection, that is an on line order store.

Since I'm not a cat eater (no...my nose isn't going up in the air) winter time turns into a "looking for a jerk" time.

Hav'en some fun killing time until the waters flow at 55 degrees again!

[Ralph Wiggum]

Hanson,

I actually read an interesting article on winter-fishing for flatheads. It was found on the In-fisherman HSOforum. You should be able to find it if you search around a bit.

[Dennis Steele]

Do you know what makes a screaming run under the ice?

PIKE!

I have 2 Epixor EB 20 spinning reels that work great on a 32 or 34" heavy ice rod.

Most of the time when fishing cats throught the ice the cats bite pretty light but once in awhile they will make a hard run too. Good for the second rod.

I have however had pike take off screaming. You get the same chill down your spine when you hear the bait alarm go off!

I like fishing the pike better with the bait runner gear than with tip ups. I just prefer fighting a fish on the end of a rod than just pulling up line.

I bet a small bait caster with a clicker would work as well.

[I Da Man]

I 'spose I shouldn't make a big deal about this because it will have the opposite effect I'm looking for.

I'm a firm believer in everyone having a right to thier own views...just don't force them on me....and I won't for mine on you...BUT!

How can any magazine...talk about flathead fishing and then come back and say..."don't do it" (my words not thiers) Stange says the laws should likly be changed, but we don't have the info...

Here's the info you need Doug and Mr. DNR...they are dormant here in MN/WI in the winter months. Yeah, some bite on a lure wiggled in thier face...but they are dormant. I'm not an expert...by anyway shape or form...but when you pull up a log (they don't fight) from 20 to 30 feet of water...after it's been sleeping for a couple months...It's not rocket science to know it's not making them healthier.

25% of the fish he caught were snagged...what number of fish (not percent) did you snag last year?

I feel so strongly about this that I would go so far to say that the two fella's mentioned (and I'm sure they are otherwise good guys) aren't catfisherman.

Leave the Flatties alone in the winter months. They need thier beauty sleep too!

Ps you will rarly see this side of me.

[hanson]

Guess I got 2 separate topics to reply to...

#1 I think you may be correct Dennis about Pike fishing. I don't specifically target pike too often during the winter but when I do, it is definitely like flattie fishing. Some days are slow, agonizingly slow. Other days are fast and furious. We generally use live baits- decoy sized sucker minnows. But we also use nice, dead, stinky bait as well- cisco, smelt, or herring. Every time a flag flys, my heart starts beating a little faster just like when I hear that clicker going off. True, I'm generally targeting trophy pike on trophy pike lakes so that may lead to the excitement. A couple of my favorites are Lake of the Woods & Devil's Lake, ND. You don't know if it will be a 5 pounder or a 25 pounder. I can't wait, gonna try to make it out to Devil's Lake early ice again this year. Our group last year pulled 8 in the 5-8lb range last Dec. once we figured out the pattern & location. Hope to improve on that this winter.

#2 Brian is getting hot under the collar. I understand where you are coming from. I've never fished P4 in the winter for flatties so don't have the personal experience to add. But from the winter flathead episode on In-Fisherman's video "Catfish: Predator on the Prowl", I have a decent feeling for how the fishing is. The guide commented that some days you snag more than you legally hook, and other days you legally hook more than you snag. Of course all these fish are stacked up in wintering holes for easy pickings.

I'm glad that they exposed the vulnerability of these fish as well as a technique to catch them- rip-jigging large multiple hooked lures through the school of fish in the hole. No wonder fish are snagged. (little sarcasm there guys.)

Anyway, in my opinion, I think that episode was filmed with the intent of educating us fisherman about a species of fish (flathead cat) that needs protection during that specific time of year because of how vulnerable they are. I don't think this has been accomplished yet and has probably showed more people how to fish for flatheads in winter than it has gotten fisherman behind legislation for the protection of them during these months. Maybe I'm not reading that message right but I agree with you Brian, its kind of hard to prove a point while you are having a good time catching the fish at the same time.

[I Da Man]

First of..I should know better than to knee jerk reaction when reading this stuff...Sorry for the melt down!

The fisherman mentioned aren't to blame, it's legal. Is it wrong for In-Fisherman to report on legal fishing? No (although I don't recall seeing a spearing artical lately) and they did point out both sides...

It's your fault...and just as much my fault for not bringing this to the DNR and either WE education THEM...or THEY educating US as to why this should remain legal.

It's already against the law to keep a foul hooked fish...so if they bite...there's 30 years and 20 lbs of meat in the grease...legally.

There I go again!

[Guest]

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I'm a firm believer in everyone having a right to thier own views...just don't force them on me....and I won't for mine on you...BUT!

Stange says the laws should likly be changed, but we don't have the info...

Yeah, some bite on a lure wiggled in thier face...but they are dormant. It's not rocket science to know it's not making them healthier.

25% of the fish he caught were snagged...what number of fish (not percent) did you snag last year?

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Well.. how many people are going to Horseshoe this year to ice some cats? I think they graph is always showing something but it takes a while to get one to hit.. they are *dormant* also.. anyone practice catch and release on these?

*The laws should likely be changed* .. I would guess because the fish are excessively vulnerable, not because its killing fish.. unless they are harvested.

"Yeah, some bite on a lure wiggled in thier face...but they are dormant. It's not rocket science to know it's not making them healthier."

When the water was 85 degrees this summer, I had a heck of a time releasing a few fish.. I would seriously question whether this is better for the fish than reeling up a log in ice cold water. The fish wouldnt be as fatigued... they have enough energy to deal with current all day in the coldest water... or they wouldnt be here.

25% of the fish being snagged.. I guess if they are stacked like cord wood and someone is jigging.. that will happen. How many fish a year do any of us snag tossing jigs for walleyes in the spring? Buffalo, carp, walleye, whatever.. it happens and we are not trying with acceptable walleye presentations.

Perhaps it wouldnt be as unethical if a stationary bait was put down there vs a jig where fewer fish would be snagged? That I would agree on.

Law should be changed? I dont know about that. Maybe. How many people actually fish for them in the winter months? If the law is changed.. what do we change the season to? Should I lose the right to catch lethargic channels in March, or flatheads in April when they are still scooled up and hitting just about anything?

I guess I agree to disagree for the most part.

[I Da Man]

I think I would be hard pressed to compare a flathead that lay dormant on the bottom with silt on thier backs to a swimming, eating channel cat...or anyother fish for that matter.

I'm no expert on fishing channels on Horseshoe, but from what I've heard from the guys that do...they are slower to bite in the cold weather months...but when they hit...you know it.

I'm not sure if you've ever had the opportunity to meet or fish with Fisher Dave, he had very good luck channel fishing in wet water last March(?)...by the looks of his posts and in talking to him. Since that is known flathead water...I'm wondering if he foul or legally hooked any flats there? I'm betting not.

Sure, the best thing we could do for a flathead is to not ever fish for them.

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*The laws should likely be changed* .. I would guess because the fish are excessively vulnerable, not because its killing fish.. unless they are harvested.

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Let me explain my point here a little better. I've witnessed on a certain pool where people have snagged numbers of large flats and kept them... I believe that these people feel once they have a flathead in the boat and it was foul hooked, it's easier to keep them...if the season was closed...they are taking a much bigger chance at being fined ect because the possession of them is against the law.

Again, the way it is now...it's ok to target these "stacked logs"...Is it legal to shoot a bear while it's in it's den hibernating?

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Perhaps it wouldnt be as unethical if a stationary bait was put down there vs a jig where fewer fish would be snagged?

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As unethical? No...just that you wouldn't catch anything but channel cats. Every report that I've read, every person that I've talked to (bar NONE)that has fished (can you call it that) for flats in winter dormant months has used a jig of some type. That should tell us something right there!

Opps! I forgot about the guy that uses dare devils....

As far as changing the laws goes...again, we can't confuse the issue with channel cats. Flats are the only known sport/game fish that "hibernates"...for lack of a better word. The season would have to change from north to south. In MN I would suggest it be closed from Nov to May 1st. Including the Minnesota River...which should be catch and release only during the "open season". As old man Dark 30 says "that could be a Red River for flatheads given the chance."

The occasional hooking or snagging while targeting other fish will happen.

To quote a well know flathead fisherman "you can't call yourself a catfisherman when you target flatheads in the winter".

(leaving pulpit now...)

[Guest]

I guess the point I was making, if 75% of the fish are taking the bait.. they are not dormant. If you have fish down there in numbers that is 4' long.. they are going to be snagged by just about anything short of an anchor(maybe that too).

From what I understand, the cats being iced dont hit all that aggressively either.. but the fact is, they are eating.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe warmer water discharges are a factor in the area of the wintering holes in question. If the water is 40 degrees.. the fish are not going to be as lethargic as they would if the water was 34 degrees.

When i was catching channels very early this year.. on the cold nights(below freezing), there would be a skim coat of ice on the surface of the water the following morning(this is a river with some current).. it was cold. The water temps were still hovering around 40 when the flatheads turned on. These fish were not *logs*.. they hit quite agressively... in fact, way more aggressively than they were in July in the hot water.

I guess the real answers are key. This is a specie of fish most commonly found in warmer water regions of the country, and that is where the conclusions have been drawn on the *life of a flathead*.. or all the information humans really *know* about them.

I know there are several lakes/reservoirs "down south" where it is common for folks to fish for blues and flats drifting with cutbait in the winter months over deep water. Obviously the air temps average much warmer than here, but what is the average water temp in the middle of winter(there).. maybe 45 as a guess? Lets assume it is in the 40's for a moment. Would that make it much different here fishing near warm water discharges near deep holes of the river where the fish stack up(tons of food there too)?

Many people "down there" target the fish because they are the most vulnerable that time of year.. the fish are schooled up in the warmest water where there is a good supply of food. They dont feed as often, but they do feed. They dont have to feed as often because their metabolism is much slower in the cold water. I suppose they could get a dirty film on them if they are not moving much.. hanging out in the warmer water with food swimming in front of them all day... hmmm.. sit in one spot and inhale food when needed? Sounds like the easy life to me... similar to any gamefish holding tight to structure. The food will come to them.

I dont think it should be illegal to fish for them. This is a colder water climate and the fish have adapted to it. I dont think that peoples harvest practice should change from any time of the year.. no harvest especially if they are foul hooked.. sounds like an excuse to me. I will not go into harvesting these fish because most of us are highly against it for the most part, and is an entirely different issue.

This sounds very similar to what the sturgeon season is to me.. 1 1/2 months long? .. with about a week of it on average that is highly productive. We are allowed to harvest 1/season over 50" if we choose to do so.. but its not hard to hook into quite a few fish even if you dont know what your doing, and some catch 50/day...

Now ask yourself.. is it ethical we should be able to fish for them when they are that vulnerable?

I guess its all a matter of opinion. I think it should be left up to the individual angler on their own practice. I dont think a law to change it would be proper in this case.

[Guest]

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What do you cat guys do when the water turns hard?

Does ice fishing have an equivalent to catfishing, other than icefishing for catfish? Last time I checked, baitclickers and ice fishing don't go hand in hand.

Don't worry, I've got the icefishing for cats thing down pretty well on one of my favorite MN lakes.

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Wow.. I better comment on the subject!!

Most of the hard water season.. I do whatever I can NOT to drill a hole in the ice and fish it! I will get the "real rods" out and find fish in a few spots I know that stay open year around. This year.. i hope the finances work out ot head south with the boat for a month or so(mid jan-mid feb) and get the worst part of winter over with.

Ice fishing.. yes I will make it out a few times because it is still fishing.. kind of.

Ice fishing Sucks!

[I Da Man]

It surely is a matter of opinion...

We have to keep in mind that we are talking about MN and Flatheads. Not channels...sturgeon are biting (jigging isn't very efficiant for sturgeon)...not down south...but here in MN.

Warm water discharge...no disagreement there.

It's been documented that many flats have over 1/4 inch of silt on their backs and they will lay behind a rock or other material to break the current. In fact, these divers report that they many times will make a chain, one behind each other to keep them out of the current.

How many people are doing it...well some weekend I can show you...far too many...

...and articals that promote it aren't helping...some could say a thread like this isn't helping either...which I would agree. The only reason I took this thread off topic was because of Ralph's comment refering to the IN Fisherman artical...(nothing personal Ralph)...

Again, the season should be closed during the dormant months (IMO... excluding warm water discharges ) and I'll do everything I can to educate folks to leave them alone until the season does protect...the stacked logs...

ps let me know when the channels are biting...I have a new wet water rod to try out...

PS anyone seen a good spearing artical lately?

[Guest]

Some weekend you will show me...

Should I stock up on 1 oz jigs?

[DTro]

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I'm not sure if you've ever had the opportunity to meet or fish with Fisher Dave, he had very good luck channel fishing in wet water last March(?)...by the looks of his posts and in talking to him. Since that is known flathead water...I'm wondering if he foul or legally hooked any flats there? I'm betting not.

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ROTFLMAO!!!

(rolling on the floor laughing my a$$ off)

I'm sure someone will let you know why

[Dennis Steele]

Well....I have not caught flatheads through the ice or in the winter months. I won't.

I have caught flateheads in April. Several of them after a warming trend and rising water. Temps were around 40.

These fish did bite.

They did not fight and I was concerned watching them drift away. That is drift away, not swim away.

I am all for closing the season when the water temps are typically under 40 degrees.

Where do I sign a petition!

[I Da Man]

dtro...friends don't always see eye to eye...or cat to cat in this instance....but they are still friends in the end.

Ps Hansen? What was the question?

[hanson]

The question was what do you cat guys do when the water turns hard and you have to put away the long rods?? What holds you over until next cattin' season??

We can all blame Mr. Wiggum for turning this topic, eh? Just kidding dude! Its a rather interesting discussion.

[hanson]

Just to touch on the channel cats that live under the ice on the Horseshoe Chain. I do not believe they are dormant. They are swimming around, they actively chase baits, they put up one heck of a fight when hooked, and they will flop around on the ice for a long time when you keep one.

True- they are easier targets because they can be found in wintering holes but that doesn't mean they are easier to catch, maybe just easier to locate. To be effective against these cats, you have to chase them around with your electronics and when you find a pod of 4 or 5 fish on the flasher, drop your bait down and start actively jigging above them. Alot of times they'll smack that jigging spoon like you wouldn't beleive. Other days, they are finicky but that is no different than any other species of fish- bluegill, crappie, walleye.

I generally don't snag many either. I may get one wisker hooked every now and then but most of the time that hook is set solid in the mouth.

[Dennis Steele]

I've watched those channel cats under the ice. They are active.

A lot of the times they just cruise along going very slowly.

I have seen them feed in several ways also.

Sometimes they will actually swim along the bait rubbing their skin on it, like a kitten would rub against your leg. I am surprised more aren't foul hooked when they do that.

THen some will just move slowly toward your bait and open their mouths and pause with the bait in their mouth. Never seeing the gills flare to inhale it. Just park their mouth over the bait.

Never seen on the camera a cat just slam the bait, but I sure have witnessed it on the end of a rod!

Any way that is what this catman likes to do when the water turns hard.

Second would be chasing walleye and pike.

Not much of a panfish guy. They are fun to sight fish, but I just don't get the same excitement as cats, eyes, and pike.

[I Da Man]

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Not much of a panfish guy. They are fun to sight fish, but I just don't get the same excitement as cats, eyes, and pike

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But they sure taste better in butter!

Guess I can't say that...I've never had cat before...maybe this year...if I'm lucky...and Hanson shows me how to do that jigging thing on 'shoe...

Mr. Steele? Are you having a cool cat's event agian this year? Do you have an idea as to when? Just wondering if I need to get some new decals for the truck... I know...I know.. I'm such a w....

[Guest]

I wasnt trying to start a debate.. and Brian is right.. we are ALL just friends here.

I dont think any one of us is entirely right, nor entirely wrong. From my fishing experiences, I dont think these fish go as dormant as people claim either. I have never had a flathead *come up like a log* that others have claimed to happen, or have witnessed. I am not saying it doesnt happen, or wouldnt happen... it hasnt happened to me is what I am saying.

The only cats I have brought in with little fight are a couple mid-size flatheads in the summer months that I caught on walleye gear.. in this case, I dont think they ever knew they were hooked. It seems the harder one pulls, the more they fight back? A 30# flat is easier to land on 15# mono than it is on 80# power pro and a broom stick.. maybe they panic with the excess resistence? Channels in the spring of the year in the cold water dont fight that much.. they fight a little, but eventually start to roll on the surface when they are under 5 pounds, and the water is under 50 degrees... when the water hits 50, there is no holding back. Flats have no problem stripping drag in the 40 degree water temps. This spring when we were catching these flats of all sizes, and large channels thrown in.. none of them had a problem fighting their way out of the net when we went to release them(elevated location).

[Dennis Steele]

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But they sure taste better in butter!

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Um....WRONG!

If you haven't had catfish, then you just don't know what your talking about. Well at least the way I do them.

We'll just list those panfish as number two.

Cool Cats?

Same cat place, same cat time.

March 4th.

I bet my stickers are bigger than your stickers!

Lets all talk about Dave in front of his face! (or his 'puter screen anyway)

I've noticed on some topics, that Dave has a tendancy to take the "counterpoint".

I wonder if Dave just does this to show everyone that there is a flip side to the coin.

I don't take Dave's posts as argumetative, because I am sure they aren't ment that way.

Its easier to see when you are actually face to face with That Guy.

[Ralph Wiggum]

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We can all blame Mr. Wiggum for turning this topic, eh?

Just kidding dude! Its a rather interesting discussion.

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LOL, well you have to admit, the Cattin' forum hasn't seen this much action in a while.

[I Da Man]

Ralph...

Among otherthings Dennis has called me..."Big Mouth" is close to the top of the list.

Hope to meet you at the Cool Cat's event...maybe I did last year and just don't know it?

Dennis, bet is on! If I'm invited...

Let's see...if I win...I get your River Pro...and if you win...you can have my daugher. Been trying to get her out of the house for 6 years now...

Ps Boat's don't talk...I would be coming out ahead if I lost!

[Ralph Wiggum]

I da Man,

Pretty sure we've never met, although I've fished with Dennis, That Guy, Manny, and Fisher Dave ( ) before. Not much of an ice fisherman (haven't gone in about 6 years), so you probably won't meet me there.