Junior MOST OVERRATED EVER?!?!?!!!!!

[lawdog]

Let's compare Jr. to Jimmie Johnson so far in their careers:

Driver 8 VS. Driver 48...

Wins

15 in five years for #8

14 in just three years for #48

Points finishes:

16, 8, 11, 3 and 5 for #8

5, 2 and 2 for #48

I think its painfully obvious that driver 8 is again shown to be more hype than actual success!

And it also shows this 48 kid is really good...

Now lets look to the 24 car:

33 years old vs. 30 years old for 8

70 career wins vs. 15 for #8

4 Cups vs. ZERO for #8

Rookie of the year for 24 vs. NOT for #8

3 Daytona 500's vs. 1 for #8

4 Brickyards vs. NONE for #8

I could go on and on, but reality isn't too big for all you 8 worshippers so I won't bother. Besides, this has already proved my point to any reasonable person.

[HOF#13]

I'm not big fans of Gordon or Johnson, but they definately deserve their due. They are good. Gordon's record speaks for itself. I don't really think it is too fair to compare wins between Jr. to Gordon however. I mean really Gordon has been in the series 7 more years than Jr.

You should really just compare the years they have all been on the track at the same time. I did.

Gordon - Avg finish: 12.73 Wins: 10

Johnson - 12.27 14

Jr - 13.97 10

Lawdog, while even these statistics prove your point that Gordon and Johnson have been better (slightly), I think the stats also prove that your comment that Jr is the most overrated driver ever is simply rediculous.

[JohnMickish]

Hows this for a Jr. quote, coming after the 500 and why Jr. didn't help Tony win.

And don't forget, Stewart led the most laps at Daytona last year, too. But in the end, Earnhardt Jr. had the better car and Stewart ended up pushing him to the win.

Earnhardt Jr. offered no apologies for not returning the favor this year.

"I wasn't going to sit on his bumper till the checkered fell. You know, that wouldn't have been a whole lot of fun," Junior said. "I had a chance to be back-to-back Daytona 500 champ. That would have been awesome. I felt like Tony can appreciate somebody trying to win the race."

Yea, is it any wonder why nobody works with him, other than teammates?

[lawdog]

But you didn't look at many stats. Jeff Gordon was also a champion in that time and Jimmie Johnson finished 2nd twice in that time as just one other example.

My point is this. Jr. is a good driver no doubt and I've never said he wasn't, but to say he's the best or that he is or will be better than a guy who has done what Jeff Gordon has is simply ludicrous. Gordon's the third winningest driver of the modern era and has the third most championships ever for pete's sake. Jr. hasn't won a single championship (never even finished second even) and wasn't even rookie of the year. What has he done to warrant the lofty position so many have annointed him to???? Take out his plate wins (in cars that were so good that career failure Mikey Waltrip can win three times in them) and he's done darn near nothing to earn this hype. Couple with that with the fact he's hyped far more than any two or three other guys out there combined and that's why I say he's easily the most overrated...

Having said that, I still like the guy, I just think his fans and the media are beyond ridiculous in how high on a pedestal they've elevated the guy. I don't hear Matt Kenseth's fans claiming he's the greatest ever. I don't hear Ryan Newman's proclaiming him to be the new king. etc. etc. 8 fans just need to be realistic about what he is and what he isn't!

[Zimm]

Because he has a personality!!! Enough said. He can relate to the common folk with a cold beer. My $.02

[JohnMickish]

Does he have a personallity or did the medea give him one? Bringing up Kenseth, compare Jr. to him.

Jr.;

15 wins,

Two busch championships

Daytona trophy

Top 10 in points twice.

Kenseth;

9 wins

Busch runner up

Coke 600 winner

Winston cup winner

finished top 10 in points 3 times.

A little more useless info. Jr. has an career average finish of 9.39. Not bad, but not as good as Gordon, Stewart and Kenseth's. (5.6, 7.17, 8.81)

Now these two guys came into the series at the same time and I ask all of you "Jr. is the greatest" people this one question.

If you could switch shoes with either Jr. or Kenseth and HAD TO RETIRE TODAY! which career would you like to hang on the mantle and look at. The Daytona trophy or the Cup?

Yes, I don't like the guy and I didn't like his dad. Dosen't mean I don't respect him, he's just statistically far from the best. Now, if we are talking t-shirt sales to rednecks and bleach blond bimbo's, then Jr. is by far the leader of the pack.

[Zimm]

Don't ask me if he has a personality, ask the 1,487,512 people who voted for him last year for most popular driver. Did I forget to mention this is the second year in a row he has won the award! I'm out.

[HOF#13]

I'm not disagreeing with any of the stats. I'll say it again, Gordon and Johnson are great driver's. However, to me...I like Jr, and personally think he has earned the right to be called a great driver.

The simple fact of the matter is that each one of us has our "favorite" driver, and the driver(s) we dislike...for whatever reason, sensible or not. Each one of us will sit here and defend "our" driver with everything we have, because to us, for whatever reason, in our view that driver is the best.

The thing here is that as of late, and it was mentioned in another post, is that we have gotten away from just poking fun at each other and keeping it light hearted. Heck, we can all fight amongst ourselves about Gordon, Johnson, JR, Kenseth, etc, etc, etc...and it can stay serious and go on and on, but then it's really not fun. What I find kind of funny is how we are sitting here fighting about these drivers, and in all actuality there are all pretty much friends with each other. I have heard Jr, Gordon, and Johnson all say how they have gotten to be pals, and have actually hung out together outside of the race setting.

[JohnMickish]

All I'm saying is favorite driver and best driver are usually not the same. One's personal attitude may cloud the facts one way or the other but we are all smart enough here to see what the facts are and the system used to gather them, right?

Didn't Bill Elliot win the favorite driver like 16 years in a row and had to take himself out of the running? If anyone can top that look me up in 15 years and I'll buy you lunch.

[HOF#13]

Not disagreeing with you at all mnfishinguy. I guess really all I'm saying is, there is no way you could change my mind, and no way I could expect to change your, or anyone else's mind on "best or favorite driver". It seems all posts regarding this topic get pretty heated. Since that being the case, I would just prefer to see the posts stay fun and light hearted, and a little less attacking and serious than they have been. Heck, I am sure I have even been guilty a time or two.

PS - Not pointing a finger at you or anyone else for that matter. I enjoy all of the posts and insight from everyone here.

That being said...LITTLE E is the best!

[NAPAFISH]

I would rather have a beer with Jr. or even Kenseth before Gordon, he seems from what I have seen and heard to be a regular kind of guy. Call it redneck call it what you will.