Cwd in se MN

[Satchmo]

4 hours ago, delcecchi said:

In fairness to the DNR, these deer were dumped before they knew about the cases in SE MN.  

 

Secondly, I wonder if they normally only have a couple deer to get rid of, since allegedly they normally give the meat to food shelves or other programs.  

 

That said, dumping all those in one place was really dumb and shouldn't have been done.  

 

As for testing, until CWD was detected in the region I don't know how much testing was being done.  Certainly not every deer harvested was tested, I don't think.   I wonder what the test costs?

Not true. They freely admitted that the heads dumped there were specimens from their CWD protocols. Which they didn't follow obviously.

Edited January 6, 2017 by Satchmo

[delcecchi]

1 hour ago, RebelSS said:

UPDATE:

 

Action taken, (yay!) and more DNR psychobabble..... 

 

http://www.postbulletin.com/news/local/dnr-removes-deer-carcasses-admits-error/article_e23d8548-42b5-5889-b6a1-7dd37949082d.html

I wonder if my email to him had anything to do with the story?

[leech~~]

11 minutes ago, delcecchi said:

I wonder if my email to him had anything to do with the story?

 

Yes, yours and about 10,000 others I'm sure!

I'm just waiting for PETA to catch this and say "If it wasn't for hunting, all these poor Deer would still be alive"

[delcecchi]

5 minutes ago, leech~~ said:

 

Yes, yours and about 10,000 others I'm sure!

I'm just waiting for PETA to catch this and say "If it wasn't for hunting, all these poor Deer would still be alive"

To the post bulletin?   10,000 emails?   Maybe 10 others, I would buy that.   Or he saw it on kaal.  Or the DNR called and offered an interview.  

 

I actually thought the DNR response was reasonable.     Although somebody will get their butt kicked over the heads, and from now on CWD will need to be accounted for as they pick up carcasses and dispose of them.   And that many in one place? 

 

As for the location, I have lived in Rochester for a long time, and I still drive places and it's like "holy carp, where did all those houses come from?".   

Edited January 6, 2017 by delcecchi

[delcecchi]

And back in the day it was out in the tullies.   I am still thinking someone is veracity challenged, since if they had been dumping there for years folks would have noticed the bones etc laying next to the trail.  

 

Me thinks someone got lazy when tasked to go dump the carcasses since it was probably multiple trips.   

 

I mean, 150 yards from the parking lot, next to the mowed trail?  Seriously?

 

Pyle?  Pyle!!. 

Edited January 6, 2017 by delcecchi

[RebelSS]

And they coulda just dumped 'em at the MAYO incinerator. They're in cahoots, anyway.

[PurpleFloyd]

8 hours ago, delcecchi said:

In fairness to the DNR, these deer were dumped before they knew about the cases in SE MN.  

 

Secondly, I wonder if they normally only have a couple deer to get rid of, since allegedly they normally give the meat to food shelves or other programs.  

 

That said, dumping all those in one place was really dumb and shouldn't have been done.  

 

As for testing, until CWD was detected in the region I don't know how much testing was being done.  Certainly not every deer harvested was tested, I don't think.   I wonder what the test costs?

It's fair to say that if CWD is a big concern for them, then their policies should be designed to treat all deer carcasses as if they are contaminated after all that is exactly the way they expect us to treat every deer we take, every minnow we put in the bucket and everyvoat and trailer we take out of the water. 

This is not simply a question of whether they made a simple error in this one situation but rather a question if whether management really has a handle on how their own staff is required to handle the same things that they are in charge of forcing us to comply with. 

[RebelSS]

Well said. 

[swamptiger]

 

 

 

[delcecchi]

Deer and minnows are not the same.  One of these things is not like the other....

 

The big question to me is how did deer with CWD show up in the middle of a clean area?   Fell off a truck? 

 

I think the DNR has a problem with deer farms that they aren't willing or politically able to address. 

[RebelSS]

Ah, but they are alike. They can be considered the "means" of transmitting something the DNR is allegedly in charge of trying to prevent the spread of. Different species, same overview and outcome.

[rkhinrichs]

Yea the guys that dump the deer their were probably just out of college trying to get done early! I don't blame them the DNR is messed up from the top down! Show me the uppper management/leaders and I will tell you the culture. they set the standards! 

 

 

Juat like the difference between the patriots and browns??? The owner, GM, and coach all stable and Have high standards. Browns well.... I don't need to make a case for them!

[delcecchi]

41 minutes ago, RebelSS said:

Ah, but they are alike. They can be considered the "means" of transmitting something the DNR is allegedly in charge of trying to prevent the spread of. Different species, same overview and outcome.

 

 

These deer were dumped before there was any knowledge of CWD in the area.   I never thought I would be the voice of reason....  The big pile of deer was certainly aesthetically unpleasing.  And the DNR should have known better than to dump them near a parking lot and an established trail, for any number of reasons.   As a minimum they should have been spread out, and in a much more remote area.   If the DNR doesn't have any land sufficiently remote they need to do something else.      

 

But, the whole golly, panic, CWD thing really is over the top. 

[RebelSS]

36 minutes ago, delcecchi said:

 

 

These deer were dumped before there was any knowledge of CWD in the area.   I never thought I would be the voice of reason....  The big pile of deer was certainly aesthetically unpleasing.  And the DNR should have known better than to dump them near a parking lot and an established trail, for any number of reasons.   As a minimum they should have been spread out, and in a much more remote area.   If the DNR doesn't have any land sufficiently remote they need to do something else.      

 

But, the whole golly, panic, CWD thing really is over the top. 

 

You don't know that for sure...and anyway, they had tested some deer for CWD, as evidenced by the brains being removed from the carcass that was there. If it tested positive, ya think they were gonna come back and look for THAT carcass? They're supposed to be trying to STOP THE SPREAD of CWD....hence, NO DUMPING. UNSAFE PRACTICE.

[leech~~]

1 hour ago, delcecchi said:

 

 

These deer were dumped before there was any knowledge of CWD in the area.   I never thought I would be the voice of reason....  The big pile of deer was certainly aesthetically unpleasing.  And the DNR should have known better than to dump them near a parking lot and an established trail, for any number of reasons.   As a minimum they should have been spread out, and in a much more remote area.   If the DNR doesn't have any land sufficiently remote they need to do something else.      

 

But, the whole golly, panic, CWD thing really is over the top. 

 

The voice of reason. You can't be serious? Look at the before and after clean up pictures and video. There are still spines laying there after the so called clean up. If spinal column or head attached hides and teeth. Can't be transported then they darn well should not be left laying around in PUBLIC! They should have had a better place already setup to depose of them. Everyone of those Bas-terds down in that DNR branch should be Fired!

 

From the DNR Web site.

 

Starting this fall, hunters may bring only the following parts into Minnesota, regardless of where the animal was harvested outside of the state:

Meat that is boned out or that is cut and wrapped (either commercially or privately).

Quarters or other portions of meat with no part of the spinal column or head attached.

Hides and teeth.

Antlers or clean skull plates (no brain tissue attached) with antlers attached.

Finished taxidermy mounts.

Nonresidents transporting whole or partial carcasses on a direct route through Minnesota are exempt from this restriction; however, similar restrictions exist in all surrounding states.

The 2016 Minnesota Hunting and Trapping Regulations Handbook states that this rule is likely to be in place (pages 2 and 62). This rule has been finalized and is in place for the fall of 2016.

More information about CWD testing is available at the managing chronic wasting disease page.

[PurpleFloyd]

3 hours ago, delcecchi said:

Deer and minnows are not the same.  One of these things is not like the other....

 

The big question to me is how did deer with CWD show up in the middle of a clean area?   Fell off a truck? 

 

I think the DNR has a problem with deer farms that they aren't willing or politically able to address. 

Not sure of your point. How did the gobies end up in lake Superior, milfoil in Minnetonka, Asian carp in Winona and mosquitos with Zika virus in Florida and Texas?

 

Live organisms move about and pass things like bacteria, virus and apparently prions among the population as they do so.

 

CWD may have been introduced by a deer that traveled from an area where it was present, a deer carcass that was transported from an infected area, a game farm or other vectors. 

 

The focus should first be on agreeing how much risk we are willing to be exposed to and from there how to uniformly set standards and practices to best deal with it.

[delcecchi]

11 hours ago, RebelSS said:

 

You don't know that for sure...and anyway, they had tested some deer for CWD, as evidenced by the brains being removed from the carcass that was there. If it tested positive, ya think they were gonna come back and look for THAT carcass? They're supposed to be trying to STOP THE SPREAD of CWD....hence, NO DUMPING. UNSAFE PRACTICE.

If we believe what the media and DNR said, they had this dump site that had been there for several years where they dumped carcasses they needed to dispose of.   The heads got dumped there too after the test sample was taken. 

 

The carcasses were from the area in Minnesota.  There were no restrictions as to transporting whole carcasses anywhere  in Minnesota at that time that I am aware of.   I for sure didn't see anything in the media before deer season reminding folks to not put their deer in the truck and drive it to the processor.   Did you?

 

The brains were removed from heads, so far as I know, that the DNR has admitted were not supposed to have been dumped there, but allegedly the heads weren't dumped until after the tests were negative.  

 

9 hours ago, PurpleFloyd said:

Not sure of your point. How did the gobies end up in lake Superior, milfoil in Minnetonka, Asian carp in Winona and mosquitos with Zika virus in Florida and Texas?

 

Live organisms move about and pass things like bacteria, virus and apparently prions among the population as they do so.

 

CWD may have been introduced by a deer that traveled from an area where it was present, a deer carcass that was transported from an infected area, a game farm or other vectors. 

 

The focus should first be on agreeing how much risk we are willing to be exposed to and from there how to uniformly set standards and practices to best deal with it.

 

 

Gobies got into lake superior by ship from Europe, as did zebra mussels. Emerald Ash borers came in pallets from China.   Asian Carp were shipped to fish farmers to keep their ponds clean and washed into the Mississippi during a period of high water.   Milfoil, I don't know about.   But someone put it there, in the first lake to be infected.  Probably some one-who-thinks-I-am-silly letting his aquarium pets live free.  Same way Chinese Mystery Snails got into Vermilion.

 

Zika was carried in the body of someone who traveled from Brazil or some place where it was endemic to Florida and Texas.

 

So, how did CWD get to Minnesota?  We know that there is a history of deer and elk with CWD being found on deer farms.    We know deer farms ship animals around the country in trucks.   

 

The CWD in the wild, in Pine Island area, was believed to have been transmitted from infected elk at the Elk Run elk farm along Highway 52.   Apparently that chain link fence they had would keep elk in but not deer out (or in).

 

Now we have another deer farm with CWD in another part of the state.   How well are the deer on that farm isolated from the wild deer population?   How about all the other deer farms around the state?   Can they still ship live deer into the state all in one piece, with head and spine, untested for CWD?  For that matter how did CWD show up in the middle of Wisconsin in an area that just happened to be a hotbed of outsiders setting up big time hunting operations?   Could someone have wanted to improve the breeding stock to get bigger bucks on their land and trucked in some from one of those deer farms in Texas or Wyoming or Iowa with the ads for "giant bucks" and released them on their land? 

 

And, Reb, I would venture that at the time those carcasses were dumped Minnesota was thought to be CWD free, and testing was going on just to monitor the situation.   I agree I have no way of knowing that, although the timing is close and procedures don't always get changed fast enough.

 

I did think the DNR guy with his "it's our land and we'll dump if we want to"  was sort of arrogant.  

 

 

[RebelSS]

My summation: Stupid, stupid, practice, regardless. There's better ways. Who says that sheeat  wouldn't have leached down into groundwater in the Spring? You can't bury a persons remains six feet down without them being in a sealed vault or cremated,  but you can leave a huge pile of deer for all critters to pick pieces off of and fly and run away with?  In the midst of trying to stop CWD? Kinda like what got England's problem of turning disease in cattle started years ago in the 40's...

[Satchmo]

Niskanen's statement that "It's safe to say that the carcasses came primarily from the Rochester area" doesn't mean dump either. Does "Primarily" mean all of them, some of them, or most of them? How diligent were the Rochester area COs about stopping imports of WI carcasses? Were any WI carcasses dumped there?, Any come from a CWD zone? Any paper trail of the deer at the dump site? Like I said before, it's all spin and damage control.

 

And yes Del, CWD could move great distances and literally fall off of the back of a pick-up truck!

[RebelSS]

"We primarily practiced safe sex"............

 

[delcecchi]

43 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

Niskanen's statement that "It's safe to say that the carcasses came primarily from the Rochester area" doesn't mean dump either. Does "Primarily" mean all of them, some of them, or most of them? How diligent were the Rochester area COs about stopping imports of WI carcasses? Were any WI carcasses dumped there?, Any come from a CWD zone? Any paper trail of the deer at the dump site? Like I said before, it's all spin and damage control.

 

And yes Del, CWD could move great distances and literally fall off of the back of a pick-up truck!

 

Sure, and mostly too and from deer farm transport of live animals.  

 

As far as I can tell, the idea that infection can be spread by years old or even month old contaminated dirt is theoretical.   If someone knows of an experiment where deer were penned in an area where infected animals were previously penned but haven't been for say, a month, and they got infected I am interested to see it. 

 

No, there isn't a paper trail.  And no they didn't know where the carcasses came from.  Guys brought in reeking carcasses in the back of their trucks and some poor slob had to load them in the gator and run them out to the pile.  This reportedly had been going on for years, and probably the reason the "mowed trail" was there was so they could drive the gator (or whatever they used) to the dump site.  

 

Reb, they weren't trying to stop CWD, they were monitoring to watch for it.   It was the belief, up until november 22, that there was no CWD in Minnesota.  So, like it had been for years, it was considered perfectly acceptable to dispose of deer by taking them out in the woods and dumping them, just like a farmer can do with a dead cow. 

 

Mad cow disease is believed to have been spread by the practice of feeding cattle a protein meal made from sheep and cows and their remains from the slaughterhouses.   So the guts and feet and heads, probably also dead animals, went to a rendering plant and were processed into cattle feed.   Eventually it went from sick sheep to cattle via the feed, and spiraled since more sick animals meant greater contamination in the feed. 

Edited January 7, 2017 by delcecchi

[RebelSS]

It's hopeless. "The internet says".....Reasoning is impossible here. Might as well quote from the Divine Comedy to anyone who tries to make a sensible point on THIS thread.."Abandon hope all ye who enter here". It'll just get refuted and go nowhere. I'm done.

[Satchmo]

Yea Rebel, she wasn't trying to get pregnant.......just trying to have fun.

[RebelSS]

Girls just wanna have fun! 

[RebelSS]

Concerning the CWD fiasco;  I guess we really can't expect much from a town that doesn't even know the difference between CO and CO2. Like I've said before, the news teams here are nothing but a bunch of stumblebums....just like a few other organizations. They seem to run rampant down here.  Maybe it's CWD.     

Just had to share this.....

 

 

 

(Headline statement and pic don't show)

 

.

January 07, 2017 12:35 PM

Firefighters: Bakery has Elevated Levels of CO2; One Employee Sent to Hospital

 

 -- Around 9:46 Saturday morning, firefighters received a call of a possible carbon monoxide poisoning at Gingerbread House Bakery on North Broadway in Rochester.  When they arrived at the scene, firefighters say there were no customers in the bakery.  However, according to the responders, there were four employees at the shop. One of the employees was experiencing symptoms of carbon monoxide poisoning.  The three other employees also reported some symptoms of carbon monoxide after being examined by emergency personnel.

Firefighters also say when they arrived at the bakery, an equipment they use to monitor carbon monoxide levels showed an increased presence of CO2 in the bakeshop.

Firefighters then turned off the gas and aired out the scene.

All employees were released on their own accord except for one who was sent to the hospital. 

The bakery is closed for the day and firefighters are not sure when it will open again.

The Rochester Fire Department wants to remind everyone to make sure their homes have CO2 monitors or alarms especially those that use gas for cooking and baking.