re-potting tomato seedlings

[ThunderLund78]

I'm nearing the first re-pot of the seeds I started indoors. I've always just bought juvenile plants--never started them from seeds myself. I am even using seeds I saved and preserved myself from last year. Kind of proud of myself as I have a 95-100% sprouting success rate as as far as I can tell!

My question is, do I use more of the same seed starting mix that I planted them in, or is it better to move up to a general potting soil? The starter mix is Miracle Gro root strengthening blend. Seems like I would still want that, but wanted to ask some of those with more experience. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks!

[yoppdk]

I've always used a regular potting soil (vs seed starting soil) for the first and subsequent repotting of seedlings. Even very young seedlings seem to take off well after repotting. I'm pretty sure the content of seed starting soil is the same as potting soil, but seed starting soil has been ground more and is finer.

[KEN W]

I have also used just regular potting mix.Be sure to pick off any leaves up to the top two and bury the stem up to the top leaves.

I also use half strength Miracle Grow and water from the bottom up after transplanting.

[Big-Al]

I have also used just regular potting mix.Be sure to pick off any leaves up to the top two and bury the stem up to the top leaves.

Ditto here. Careful though Ken, Last year I got chastised for suggesting such a thing. I have had excellent results planting the whole stem and pulling leaves both when first transplanting and then when planting in the garden.

[jentz]

Clip them leaves and bury that stem,You'll get a stronger root system making a stronger plant with more production.Then as the plant is growing clip all the lower growth off to to about 12-16 inches,avoiding rain splash and the potential dreaded wilt.

[ThunderLund78]

Fantastic advice everyone, thanks!

I'm still just in the Cotyledon leaf stage and they're about 1" - 1-1/2" tall. But I can see progress everyday, it wont be long. About how long after the first real leaves begin to show do you want to transplant?

[Big-Al]

i always wait to to do the initial transplant when the plant is fairly root bound as to not disturb the plant much when transplanting.

[KEN W]

i always wait to to do the initial transplant when the plant is fairly root bound as to not disturb the plant much when transplanting.

Yeah,I wait until the plants are large enough to bury the entire stem up to the top leaves.

jentz....good advise,also helps stop blight.

[CANOPY SAM]

I've never even bothered to transplant seedlings. I let em' grow to the height you see em' grown too in the greenhouses (in the six packs), then just transplant straight to the garden (burying the majority of the stem as suggested earlier).

The only thing I'd worry about is if the seeds you carried over from fruit last year were from hybrid plants. If so, it's possible that you'll get very nice large vigorous plants that produce very little, or no fruit.

[pushbutton]

The only thing I'd worry about is if the seeds you carried over from fruit last year were from hybrid plants.

That was my initial thought when first reading the thread. For anyone new to this(not saying ThunderLund is)....you should plant open pollinated/nonhybrids if saving the seed. Otherwise the seed will revert to only one strain in particular that was crossed for a number of reasons such as shelf life, size, color, early ripening, disease resistance, ect.....together these make for a nice puzzle, but alone possibly would be just a "bad tasting" piece.

As far as when to transplant? Would say it would ultimately depend on how close they are currently growing together. If they are close, would probably do it as soon as the first true leaves form, if the are spaced out pretty good, you could probably wait till, two or even three sets of true leaves form.

[ThunderLund78]

As far as I know these are not hybrids, I just wanted to try preservation. Not that seeds are expensive (or buying pre-potted plants for that matter). But I just wanted to see what it took. A good skill to have, I suppose

[Nainoa]

As far as I know these are not hybrids, I just wanted to try preservation. Not that seeds are expensive (or buying pre-potted plants for that matter). But I just wanted to see what it took. A good skill to have, I suppose

Well where did you get the initial plants from?

While the numbers are improving every year, and I haven't updated what the ratio is in the market place in several years, but 6 years ago when I went from "Dabbling" in heirloom seeds to exclusively growing from heirloom seed it was something like 90% of the plants and seeds available were Hybrids.

Now if you don't know for sure, you might be setting yourself up for a long season of caring for plants that give you a super low yield, or worse yet hit the adult stage and then flounder.

The very first sign that you've got a hybrid over an open pollinator will be the germination rate.

My rule of thumb is 10/8/12...

Meaning if you have a seedling heat mat system (Of whatever kind) and you put 10 seeds into soil plugs, you should have 8 tomato plants germinate within 12 days or less.

If you plant 10 and you have only 6 come up 14 days later... Then it's probably a hybrid.

[ThunderLund78]

This is all VERY interesting an I have to admit, I feel a little green and perhaps a bit embarrassed I didn't look into all of this a little further before I started. But hey, I'm learning.

I preserved the seeds form some tomatoes I got for free at work from a co-worker who had extras. So I'm not sure of the exact breed but I saved the seeds because they we're delicious.

As far as germination rate goes, it's excellent, I estimate 95-100% out of roughly 30 seeds have spouted healthily and within 7-10 days. I didn't have an exact count when I started but I put 3 in each planter and I have three sprouts in all of them with the exception of one that has 2. I didn't expect that kind of success rate so I think I'm going to give some to friends and tell them to not get their hopes up, but if it works they'll have some great tomatoes. I'll maintain 3-5 of them and cross my fingers. If it ends up not bearing fruit, at least it will be an interesting journey

[Nainoa]

This is all VERY interesting an I have to admit, I feel a little green and perhaps a bit embarrassed I didn't look into all of this a little further before I started. But hey, I'm learning.

I preserved the seeds form some tomatoes I got for free at work from a co-worker who had extras. So I'm not sure of the exact breed but I saved the seeds because they we're delicious.

As far as germination rate goes, it's excellent, I estimate 95-100% out of roughly 30 seeds have spouted healthily and within 7-10 days. I didn't have an exact count when I started but I put 3 in each planter and I have three sprouts in all of them with the exception of one that has 2. I didn't expect that kind of success rate so I think I'm going to give some to friends and tell them to not get their hopes up, but if it works they'll have some great tomatoes. I'll maintain 3-5 of them and cross my fingers. If it ends up not bearing fruit, at least it will be an interesting journey

Yeah if your count is accurate... 30 seeds with 29 germinations, then it would have to be the mother of all hybrids, or you do have an open pollinator.

(Open Pollinator and Heirloom are the same thing... It's just that in order for something to actually be considered an heirloom it needs to be an open pollinator with a history that goes back to 1940... AKA before World War II)

I would just pot them up with potting soil up to the bottom of the first true leaves. (It's okay to bury pinch off and bury the original Cotyledon seeds it germinated with) Then I would fertilize them with something high in Phosphorus (Which is beneficial for Root Development) and keep them in a place with cool night time temps.

Miracle grow makes a decent one... But Bloom Plus by Shultz is the best.

The way this season is going to shape up with cool soil temps straight through planting season, you'll want to not baby the hell out of them with warm temps and get them toughened up (Tempered) for longer than usual.

[CANOPY SAM]

Hey TL78, nobody's trying to steal your thunder. Har har har!!!

Just giving you a heads up, just in case.

I appreciate all the insight as well. I had no idea there was a formula to determine whether a cultivar of seed was a hybrid or not simply based on germination rate. That's cool.

Nainoa, are you sure about that? Seems to me, with the right conditions, one could probably get every seed, hybrid or not, to germinate under the perfect scenario.

Thunder, sorry if this went further than what you were looking for. There's obviously some super smart gardeners here, and I for one plan to milk them for all the info I can in the coming years.

I'm just like you. I just think it's cool to grow stuff. When it starts to get really fancy schmantcy, I just plant pumpkins!

[ThunderLund78]

Hey, No problem Canopy! This is all great stuff.

[Nainoa]

Hey TL78, nobody's trying to steal your thunder. Har har har!!!

Just giving you a heads up, just in case.

I appreciate all the insight as well. I had no idea there was a formula to determine whether a cultivar of seed was a hybrid or not simply based on germination rate. That's cool.

Nainoa, are you sure about that? Seems to me, with the right conditions, one could probably get every seed, hybrid or not, to germinate under the perfect scenario.

Thunder, sorry if this went further than what you were looking for. There's obviously some super smart gardeners here, and I for one plan to milk them for all the info I can in the coming years.

I'm just like you. I just think it's cool to grow stuff. When it starts to get really fancy schmantcy, I just plant pumpkins!

No that's not the be all end all of if you've got an Open Pollinator.

But if you've got second generation seeds from a Hybrid, it would be a "Part the Red Sea" kind of miracle to get 29 of 30 seeds to germinate and stay viable to their first true leaves.

Hybrids are by their very nature Mules.

When seed companies make hybrid seeds they put a lot of time, money, research and extra effort into trying to make sure that you can't just buy from them once and then save your own seeds. They make money by having you come back to them year after year after year.

However plant mules are not as unviable as animal mules. So you can still see something like a 20% germination rate out of second generation hybrid tomatoes. (And we're just talking tomatoes here... When we move out in peppers and herbs and squash, then it's different numbers etc...)

Even when it comes to crosses, I've only had one viable cross in 10 years... And that was "Pony Boy" a red mini slicer sized glacier tomato crossed with a yellow Djena Lee and make Yellow mini slicers, that have bred true 3 years straight.

My Sanzo-Wine (Cross between San Marzano and Brandywine) Made it through every single test in the whole 11 of 12 months... Right up until harvest, when it failed to produce the new crossed fruit and simply defaulted to the mother plant. (San Marzano)

So IF, but some small miracle and hybrid did germinate at 95%... (Which is 5 star awesome even for an open pollinator!) then the next sign that it didn't breed true would be curling in the stem.

The trunk of the stem just below the first true leaves tends to grow faster than the foliage in untrue tomatoes, and so the foliage, starts to weight down while the stem grows up and the plant starts getting a sort of question mark shape.

But if you've got plants that are growing straight and true and "Lean towards the light" like normal... Then it's a double sign (Albeit minor compared to high germination rate) that it is indeed an open pollinator.