Lead in possession question

[Lunker]

Here's the scenario. I go hunt pheasant with lead shot. After I am done pheasant hunting, I leave all my lead in the car, grab steal, and go jump shoot ducks on a stream. Now I get back to the car, at this point I now have lead and steel in the vehicle, and duck and pheasant in the cooler. Is this legal as long as I wasnt carrying lead while hunting the ducks.?
I didnt do this, I was just wondering if this is legal as long as you arent carrying them.

[Surface Tension]

That scenario is fine.

[Guest]

You're fine as long as you don't bring the Lead onto a Federal Wildlife Management Area.

Lead is banned even in your vehicle...

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Chells

[Guest]

Lead in posession while hunting waterfowl or hunting on state/federal land, no matter if it is in your vehicle or not is 100% ILLEGAL.
Especially if you have the birds in hand.

Straight from a CO by the way.

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[say_der]

To avoid the situation just hunt the pheasants with steel. I prefer not to have lead tainted meat anyway.

[BLACKJACK]

Since I hunt a lot of public and private land, I've went almost exclusively to steel shot, I hate that hassle of exchanging shells and accidently leaving a lead in. But after reading some of the 'shot size' posts on the Pheasant forum I'm thinking that lead would be the way to go for late season roosters and the longer shots you have.

[Surface Tension]

Absolute Horse Hockey! You can have lead shot in your car. Any CO that tells you different has gone Rouge!

[Surface Tension]

This brings up another subject.
We all should know the regulations for any type of hunting or fishing we do and the CO's expect us to know them and abide by them. Any excuse like "sorry officer I didn't know" is not a defense that will get you out of any violations. There really is no excuse for not knowing the regs and there is no excuse for a CO for not knowing them also but it happens over and over. Hey we get ticketed for our mistakes so make sure any misinformed CO gets set straight by informing his supervisor.

[cashcrews]

I suppose you could find the actual documentation somewhere, but chances are it's the discretion of the individual CO (and whatever kind of mood they're in that day).

Personally, I would hope that CO's could make a distinction and good judgement call when it comes to this type of thing. It becomes a bit too much of an imposition on the average hunter to have to follow these technical details so exactly.

My interpretation of this is that you shouldn't have lead in possession while hunting for ducks.

The idea that you've got to clear your vehicle and all other belongings of lead shot while in possession of ducks is stupid. It would be the type of thing that I'd be willing to challenge if I ever got fined for it. Basically, I keep a shotgun and shells of various types in my truck all hunting season long. I'm not going to clear everything out just because I might have a duck in my possession.

[Guest]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's the Federal Agents who enforce the no-lead laws on Federal lands, not state CO's.

I realize the State CO's have jusridiction, etc.but they don't enforce the no-lead-in-the-vehicle laws.

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Chells

[Guest]

In posession means in possession wether or not it's in your car or not.

If you had an open bottle, drugs, or whatever in your car and you were standing outside, in your home, or at the mall, you are still "in possession" of that item.

I'm not trying to show you up here ST, but I'd hate for someone to get in trouble from misinformation.

Sorry, but having lead in posession, even if it's in your car is still against the regs.

[Lowe]

I really don't think this would be relevant in most cases. When I've been checked by CO's it's on the water or taking the boat out, not while I'm in my truck. A roadblock would be the one instance where it might come into play, but I'm not going to lose sleep over a CO finding a couple #8 leads in my glove box just because I've got a couple ducks in the cooler.

To me, and I'm sure for most competant CO's, in possession means accessible in the field.

Chells I'm not sure, the state CO's I've run into aren't that concerned about running the magnet over my shells. Surprising, but I think they do check.

[Adams]

I think you are fine, even with lead in your vehicle. The state and federal regs prohibit TAKING of waterfowl while possessing lead. Unless you are shooting from your car, you'll be fine. Of course, you'll have another set of problems. Adams

[Surface Tension]

Tom, I'm hoping you know I'm not bustin your balls either.
I was totally confident about my statement on the regs but made the call to the DNR office anyway.(888-646-6367)
Answer was it's OK to have toxic shot in your vehicle.

[Bushwacker]

ST and Adams are right (I think). I live out of city limits and have a pond in my back yard that I could hunt if I wanted to. Does this mean that I can't have any lead in my house because my house is a lot closer than my car is to many sloughs that I hunt. I would think in my car would be the same as in my house. I'm not shooting out of either, but could shoot out of my house if I was so inclined and didn't enjoy watching the ducks from my deck. And I do at times have freshly shot ducks in my garage to clean.

[superfish2]

A few years ago I encountered this situation. I was only 15-16 at the time. I got checked by the dnr while duck hunting. He ran the manget over the rounds I had in my shotgun, and it was all steel, he asked if I had any lead with me. I told I had some in the car. He said as long as it's not with you while you are in the field it's ok.

[Benny]

Big factor here is in a court of law the CO wouldn't have a leg to stand on.No proof the lead was used to shot the ducks,unless lead pellets were found in the body.The CO will confescate the birds, if there is no testing done to see if lead shot was present in the bodies then your off as well.
They have to do all the tests or they loose out in court.

I have had to fight a few CO's in the past who thought they were right, but the judge said they didn't follow procedure so I didn't have to pay any fines.Did loose two days vacation and wages to fight them though.

The CO's like the cops on the street just do not care, it is up to the judge to fix any wrong on thier part.They issue tickets knowing that 95% of us won't take time off to fight it.

Benny

[Guest]

I think the point got lost somewhere that is this:

On Federally managed Wildlife Areas I've been informed that you can't be in possession of Lead Shot, in your vehicle or anywhere.

I don't think there is any question that you can be in possession of Lead shot other places.

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Chells

[Guest]

I think that's where I got my info as it pertained to WMA's and fed lands.
On your own property or just driving down the road, one might be ok.

[Guest]

Because of this confusion and mostly confusion on some of the CO's parts, I've gone to strictly steel shots. There is no reason to use lead when steel will kill the same (minus the poisonings which lead causes).

[Dr. Bob]

Thanks for clearing that up Lunker!!! I have been sitting here reading through this thread and I was starting to wonder when they snuck that law in.....

[Surface Tension]

Does this clear things up.

"It is unlawful to take geese,ducks,mergansers,coots,or moorhens with leadshot or while having any lead in your possession."

Federal Waterfowl Production Area's and Wildlife Refuges
"Small game hunters using shotguns are required to use and posses only nontoxic shot."

My call to the DNR verified that leadshot in your car is not considered "possession" while hunting waterfowl, migratory game birds or hunting small game on Federal WPA's or WR's.
Tom stated that CO's he has talked to said differently. That possession included cars. I guess I would call the CO in the area you plan to hunt and get his interpretation.

If I had my deer rifle in my trunk and stopped by the bank to get some cash would you say I'm robbing the bank because I'm in possession of a rifle?

Wildlife Management Area's allow the use of leadshot for small game unless otherwise posted.

[This message has been edited by Surface Tension (edited 10-30-2003).]

[Guest]

Well, ST, the question still lingers.

I guess I'd rather err on the side of not even carrying Lead shot if I'm planning on hunting a Federal WMA. I'd rather not go through the frustration of fighting a citation just to prove someone issued it incorrectly or whatever.

In a discussion I had in Ohio with a Federal CO, he told my party that we couldn't have lead in the vehicle on the property or we'd be liable--end of story.

I don't necessarily agree with any of the logic rendered for this law, but then it's up to me to decide which "battles" are mine to fight.

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Chells

[Surface Tension]

Chells I hunt both WMAs and WPAs for pheasants. For me this means a road trip and I have both lead and steel shot in the truck. I wont give up the leadshot but I will bring a letter from the DNR just in case. So far I haven't had any problems but this topic brought up enough concern to prepare ones self.

[Benny]

jlm, I should have stated my point more clearly.
It has been MY personal experiance with all but a few CO's and Cops, that SOME just don't care.Only thing that matters to those who don't is the amount of tickets they write.

The main point I wanted to share is that if the officer thinks he/she is right to issue a ticket then your going to get one.
Your only inocent until proven guilty in the court, not the field.
The prosecutors can use all kinds of tricks to prove your guilty as well.

So your far better off to just conform and don't take lead if your huning waterfowl or small game on federal managment areas.

Benny