APR's good..I gotta ask...(?)

[dietdew]

Yes, I can't wait till MN is just like Pike County Illinois!!

Oh wait... That would suck haha

[SmellEsox]

I've hunted Iowa on public land and believe me when I say it is far superior to MN public land. If there was a camera in the tree with me, they could have shown it on Reeltree Outdoors or Drury's show. Public land can be awesome if people show restraint or don't shoot the first little buck that comes by. It would be great if people did it voluntarily, but they don't in this state and the quality of the hunt is far from what it could be here, at least on the public land that I hunt.

[dietdew]

How many deer hunters in Iowa compared to Mn?

[CANOPY SAM]

I kind of figured many of these filmed hunts have got to be subsidized by the landowner/outfitter to promote their business'.

I just find it a little hard to believe that some of these are true fair chase, wild deer hunts. I can buy the Canadian/Alaskan/Yukon moose, bear, and caribou hunts. Not sure you could even "high fence" those critters.

It's the white-tail hunts that boggle my mind. In one show a husband and wife couple shot two white-tails within 20 minutes of each other from the exact same blind with bow and arrow. Both of these animals were SO big it was ridiculous! And while they're waiting for "their" deer to come into the field there are numerous other bucks milling around that are all high scoring bucks!

They seem like very nice people, and I'm not knocking them. I just do not see deer of this caliber EVER. In the 30+ years I've been hunting I've only seen 2 truly giant animals. One was at night in the headlights of the car.

Another show filmed a couple guys that were hunting/managing a property where they'd followed several deer over many years, had sheds, and trail cam pics of each deer, and knew all the big animals quite intimately. These must be huge chunks of land. I can't imagine a buck would remain in the same area for so many years if it wasn't a massive property, or fenced in.

Although, SlimnGriz, you seem to have something there where you can follow a couple deer for several years. I've always heard where an adult white-tail buck will travel 10-12 miles per night while in rut. Is this inaccurate?

The point made about the animals not being camera shy. I noticed that as well. These programs show someone in stand, behind them a camera person, and there have got to be others in stands around them for other camera angles. They have several big bucks walking right under their stands, many deer wandering around the area, and all the animals seem completely oblivious to the humans in the trees. Sometimes they even show the animals looking at them, then they go right back to feeding as though they're not the least bit concerned about the human presence.

I don't know about you guys/gals, but in my experience, if I get busted, I GET BUSTED! And that deer typically lets every other deer within ten miles know exactly where I am!

I laugh at the Texas ranch "hunts". In one program a big buck jumped into the fenced enclosure surrounding the "feeder", and the "hunters" were complaining that they didn't have a shot cause the fence was in the way!

Some of these white-tail hunts are believable, but I suppose it's not that tough to enclose several hundred acres so you'd never "see" the fence while filming.

I think this does present an unrealistic portrayal of hunting. But I suppose it does sell product like crazy.

[Bear55]

TV hunting is not real, even if you had 2000 acres in MN you could not produce the same results. You could do well with that kind of land but these shows have advantages far beyond what most of us can access.

To start some states (Iowa for example) has an insaine population of mature bucks. If you company that with large managed lands where young bucks have nothing to fear until they reach 5+ years of age you end up with a managed farm where bucks roam during shooting hours. They also have a high population of deer and super high quality food sources for those deer. If you don't see 10 bucks a day something is wrong.

The TV hunters are getting it done under the most ideal situations in the world, take them out of their element and they would struggle just like us average joes. Put them on public land and they would be lost.

[muskiemanAD]

This is TV not reality folks. Imagine the ratings a show would have being filmed on a 40 in Mille Lacs County.... Everyone sees fishing where the Linders are catching tons of Walleye that we would love to catch one in our life. Think that they are catching all the Muskies in the half hour it takes to film the show? This has nothing to do with APR it is for entertainment purposes only. Please don't assume that the pro APR guys see this and want MN to be like this...

[Musky Buck]

MN can't be like that, 480,000 of us with as many tags as you want. Roughly every 4-5 years we recycle the entire herd. Our hunter numbers combined likely = Iowa,ND, and SD combined. Wisconsin is a freak of nature but in pockets there deer numbers are poor, had 5 relatives in 2 different counties and combined they saw 3 deer all season. Anyway the shows are a joke today they all try to 1 up each others show and they never let the kids take the big buck even though it has to mean a lot less to those adults although they act it up big after the shot on film, they've all got buck steak in the freezer from the 80's, the meat rarely gets mentioned, means nothing, $ MEANS something. Haven't really tuned in, in years I like the goose hunt shows best.

[Dusty]

Google " autum antlers " it is a big game shooting preserve near Little Falls Mn. Looking at some of the photo's I reconized a couple of people that host tv hunting shows. then check the prices, yow.

[Musky Buck]

Did my dad say 25 years ago a hunting place near Dallas texas was like 25 grand to belong to a year, I thought he said it's near 60 grand today or something, will plug him for more info on that, I'm more thankful than ever MN is the way it is.

[bigbucks]

" autum antlers "

Yes it's between Long Prairie & Little Falls, pretty ridiculous I think.

[tfran123]

The shows are stupid to say the least. I love it when some guy gut shoots one and they find it two days later and they are on cloud 9. Seriously, the meat is gone and they could care less about that, all they want is the rack, nothing more. Hunting has to be more than just horns. To me it's a one-on-one against a mature animal that I hope to outsmart and cleanly take. Pretty simple really and while I fully support APR (it's hugely important) it has very little to do with horn porn.

[Getanet]

Google " autum antlers " it is a big game shooting preserve near Little Falls Mn. Looking at some of the photo's I reconized a couple of people that host tv hunting shows. then check the prices, yow.

I just took a peak. That place must be a fenced in location - yes? Otherwise I'm not sure how they could have Red Stag and Mouflon Ram.

[bigbucks]

I just took a peak. That place must be a fenced in location - yes? Otherwise I'm not sure how they could have Red Stag and Mouflon Ram.

Absolutely high fence. All the guys are wearing camo & using rifles. You can't do that in any MN deer season.

[Musky Buck]

My last thought then I'll be a reader is have you ever heard other shooting in any background of any of these shows I mean we can hear the reports especially on calm days maybe 2 miles or more or less away, do you ever hear gunfire in the background of these shows I realize out west likely not but a ND or SD or Kansas or Iowa or Nebraska etc. ? Are these ranches etc. just that large with so few hunters at the same time etc. ? I'd like to see Wisc. or MN during the general gun season. Anyway APR isn't about wildly growing rampant monsters in our families go grow attitude it's just trying to have something to wait for, a better reason than yearlings to wake up for each morning, a chance, a better chance, at a bigger deer both in body and antlers, we live it and deer year round and at some point just dropping the first buck we see if it's small is just such a waste of a tag, take a doe, we're hopeful to see a nice buck that we certainly let live the year or 2 previously and if that or those of us who don't get one we can extend our season yes it's a low% chance but it's a chance during Muzzy.

[SmellEsox]

How many deer hunters in Iowa compared to Mn?

Way more in MN. However, if you factor in the amount of actual deer habitat in Iowa compared to MN, the pressure difference probably isn't as big as you might think. I believe there is just a different mentality down there. Most hunters won't shoot small bucks. Far different than the tradition that has developed in MN.

[deerminator]

I guess I havent noticed anyone from shows I watch hunting on that preserve. I would say most of your more popular hosts don't hunt high fence the majority of the time. And I'll agree that most of them instead appear to be working their butts off at managing land and hunting big bucks. But that's their job. That's what they do for a living and they have access to thousands of acres that are meticulously managed with exteremely low pressure. That's why the big buck steps out into the food plot well before dark. But did you notice that even on Tiffany and Lee's show that quite often, the buck they're after doesn't step out. They still have to hunt hard to get him?

It's a TV show and its fun to watch. I don't think anyone thinks it's realistic to kill the kind of bucks they are regularly unless you have the property, time and put the effort into it. But it's fun to watch. And you might learn somthing that will help you kill a big buck in your area. It's kind of like the people who write into F&S and are upset with all the fancy equipment they do a review on. Sure, most of us might not have or want to spend the money on some of that stuff, but it's sure fun reading about it. And it may give you some ideas for other equipment and hunting methods.

[Getanet]

I don't think the majority of them are hunting high fenced areas either. But I do think in most cases they are hunting on land the average person will never touch. Call it a preserve, a sanctuary, an outfitter, or whatever you want. These are large tracks of private land that are meticulously managed to grow big bucks - and they charge thousands of dollars to do so. I think there are many viewers that don't understand that.

[InTheNorthwoods]

Another show filmed a couple guys that were hunting/managing a property where they'd followed several deer over many years, had sheds, and trail cam pics of each deer, and knew all the big animals quite intimately. These must be huge chunks of land. I can't imagine a buck would remain in the same area for so many years if it wasn't a massive property, or fenced in.

Although, SlimnGriz, you seem to have something there where you can follow a couple deer for several years. I've always heard where an adult white-tail buck will travel 10-12 miles per night while in rut. Is this inaccurate?

...

I think this does present an unrealistic portrayal of hunting. But I suppose it does sell product like crazy.

Just to address a few of the points you are making and apply them to the real world (aka rural Minnesota).

First off, since the advent of trail cameras I have been able to follow many bucks from year to year that are living on land my family owns (120 acres in Northern MN - not really ag country & North Dakota Ag country). We've picked sheds from some of these deer, and we regularly get the same deer on camera from year to year. Based on those photos, I have found it easy to tell that MOST of the bucks we have in our areas, have the potential to be a nice sized buck by the time they are 3.5 - and once they get there, if some of those deer find a way to survive from year to year, they are pretty easy to follow. Several have turned into what I'd consider "big" wild deer - a couple that would go 160"+. Now, that is only a few deer over about 10 years, but the point is, the genetics are there and with age some of them can get there (more than most people realize). The biggest hurdle in seeing the "big" ones, is that a great deal of the small bucks get killed way before they have a chance to show any potential.

Now, one difference between MN and ND is that the deer seem to travle a lot further in ND (one was shot about 4 miles as the crow flies from where I had a trail cam photo of it before light the same morning). in MN, we have bucks on the same 120 acres that regularly are photographed on one end of the property, but rarely or never photoed on the other end. Likewise, we have neighbors in MN who show us pics of big deer on their cameras from just a mile or so away that we have never seen (and vice versa). I'd attribute much of this to the availability of good security cover in MN vs. ND.

Now as far as the biggest deer, and the numbers of bigger deer, I have found there are more good sized bucks in ND than where I hunt in MN. This I attribute to the tag system there which minimizes some pressure and causes more young deer to survive an extra year or two.

Overall, my MN ground is better (the several biggest deer have been from MN), but the human conditions make the NoDak ground "better" as far as daytime movement and success on killing bigger deer. But on both parcels, we have been able to follow the same deer from year to year with trail cameras and to pick up some sheds.

In the end, big deer are found in lots of places. Killing them usually comes down to dumb luck or persistence, with one's odds significantly improving if they are hunting in an area with more "big" deer, which usually means less pressure and the best habitat, but most certainly, a deer that is old enough to reach optimal antler growth (in many cases 5.5 or older).

Lastly, it is easy to tell which "hunts" on these shows are filmed under high fenced conditions. Most will advertise their outfitter and a simple google search will give you all the info you need. While more of these shows than I'd like to see are filmed on high fence preserves, a suprising majority of them (atleast on the Outdoor Channel) are wild deer - but on managed lands. It is amazing how the overal hunt can be improved (from a sighting and activity perspective) when you are hunting ground with low pressure, good habitat, and good buck/doe ratios.

[tfran123]

Probably one of the best posts I've read in a long while. Our situations are identical. After running cameras for the last 5 years I recongnize almost all the older bucks year after year. The key is getting them past 3.5 in northern MN, that's tough to do. If they do we've got really nice racks with mass and we're talking a 200 pound plus deer. Because of our QDM efforts we've got a pretty balanced herd but it's still tough to get them past 3.5. Even when you do they are very smart and don't make many mistakes. But I like my odds a bit better when I have 2 or 3 instead of one on our property. Furthermore, I agree about them being homebodies, our deer probably don't cover more than 300 acres as their home range. My neigbors always shoot deer I have no photos of.

[Musky Buck]

10 4 guys read a ton last night on heredity and such, most agree there is no like cull bucks so to speak, rarely anyway, nutrition creates great horn growth the better the bigger, heredity is more about shape and points per rack, cull buck is generally justified by grown men that just shot their 30th yearling buck. It's age, it's age, I think if we could close deer seasons for 3-4 years people would realize yes that Y buck can become a horse in time.

[slimngrizzly]

I think it can be very different in each "area". I find in my part of MN bucks will travel will group together in summer and not hardly leave 200 acres or so. ill se as many as 30 different bucks year after year in these areas. In fall they will range out to about 4 miles. A lot has to do with the contour of the land. Ive noticed, more through shed hunting than cameras, but many of the deer lucky enough to make it past 5 1/2 are pushing B&C.

I firmly beleive, as far as antlers go, our combination of terrain along with the subspecies of whitetail in central, southern, and southeastern MN. This area has the potential to produce the largest deer in the North America. If more bucks survived to 5 1/2 I have little doubt next world record will be from right here. I know its not what everyone wants.... im just making the statement. Many wild deer at 5 or 6 years in MN, would top those "TV bucks" that so many of you think are freaks.

[matchset]

I firmly beleive, as far as antlers go, our combination of terrain along with the subspecies of whitetail in central, southern, and southeastern MN. This area has the potential to produce the largest deer in the North America. If more bucks survived to 5 1/2 I have little doubt next world record will be from right here. I know its not what everyone wants.... im just making the statement. Many wild deer at 5 or 6 years in MN, would top those "TV bucks" that so many of you think are freaks.

I completely agree.

i'm blessed to hunt some fantastic area's in Minnesota and Wisconsin. The proof is in the pudding. I've eaten tag soup in Wisconsin 4 out of 5 years.... we don't shoot young bucks, but we do shoot a lot of does.

$160x4= a lot of fun and no dead lil bucks maybe next year

[tfran123]

I think it can be very different in each "area". I find in my part of MN bucks will travel will group together in summer and not hardly leave 200 acres or so. ill se as many as 30 different bucks year after year in these areas. In fall they will range out to about 4 miles. A lot has to do with the contour of the land. Ive noticed, more through shed hunting than cameras, but many of the deer lucky enough to make it past 5 1/2 are pushing B&C.

I firmly beleive, as far as antlers go, our combination of terrain along with the subspecies of whitetail in central, southern, and southeastern MN. This area has the potential to produce the largest deer in the North America. If more bucks survived to 5 1/2 I have little doubt next world record will be from right here. I know its not what everyone wants.... im just making the statement. Many wild deer at 5 or 6 years in MN, would top those "TV bucks" that so many of you think are freaks.

That's a good point and very similar to our situation. When my cameras go out in June I usually have about 25-35 bucks on camera, once we hit October they really start to disperse. Not all of them, I'd say I still can stay on about half of them but some of the larger ones pick up a new range but with that said come November (gun season) our deer that are shot are generally ones we had a picture of (newcomers are rare). This year was an exception for me, shot a nice mature buck that was new to us, never had seen him.

Even with us really not shooting anything under 3.5 it's amazing how few deer make it past this age - they are rare animals! Technically we're Central MN (slightly North) and we don't grow the biggest racks as our top end is usually around 150, 156 being the largest we've taken. But it's more than score, I'm after those 200+ pound bucks that are at least 4.5.

[james_walleye]

My area is weird this year. I had a group of bucks on camera all summer. They have completely disappeared and haven't shown back up on camera. October brought a couple new ones hanging around. Then November now has a whole new batch that has shown up and have kept reappearing. I have had a couple random big boys show up as well. 1 set of pics and gone.

[riverrat63]

This is a good post so i have to chime in, i dont post much on here i just mostly see whats going on but this was to good to not say any thing, a lot of thows guys like lee and tiffany put a lot of work into making big bucks its people like them or like greg miller stan potts and bill jordon and so on that made what QDM what it is today they showed what it would look like if you did it, yea some of thows shows look fake,some of thows shows show so much more then just walking out and killing a monster alot of thows shows go threw a whole season showing you what to plant in your food plots and why and why to pass on that buck and shoot that one and wear to set up a stand during the rut its like a magazine but with people talking , Minnesota could be like iowa Kansas Illinois or wis, but one big prob is tradition there is far more people that would rather go out with there friends and family and shoot deer for there Freezer then shoot one to have one the wall to brag about, im not by no means saying there is nothing wrong with hunting family and freinds i miss hunting with my dad every year thats the main reason why i dont hunt any more, wow that was a lot of words seemed shorter in my head...