MN enforcing Canadian regulations?

[James_R]

I've seen our state DNR conducting vehicle inspections at the border enforcing Ontario's 4 fish limit and was wondering if our state DNR has a reciprocity agreement with the province of Ontario to enforce their foreign game laws? Can individual states actually seize the property, penalize and prosecute U.S. citizens for violating a foreign country's wildlife statutes? I remember the story a few months ago regarding the USFWS seizing those Gibson guitars from India citing the Lacey act but I wasn't aware of states having those same powers. Are these powers cited in our fish and game laws and have they ever been challenged in court? Maybe some of you guys here know something about this.

[superbee]

From what I know, they would notify the Ontario MNR and hold you until they arrived. Then it would be up to the Ontario MNR if seizures were appropriate or not. If the MN DNR checked you, but you had not been cleared entry to the US yet by customs, this may also play a part of what could happen. Just simpler and safer to make an accurate fish count before crossing the border.

[James_R]

Thanks for the reply superbee. Customs would have to clear you before the DNR checked your belongings and the Ontario MNR would have no legal authority on US soil. I distinctly remember the DNR checking fishermen for the 4 fish Ontario limit and issuing fines for being over that limit. I totally agree with you that one is way better off by not exceeding Ontario's bag limits but I still am not sure how our DNR is involved in all of this since the fish in question obviously weren't harvested in the states.

[MinDak Hunter]

MN Statute

97A.505 POSSESSION OF WILD ANIMALS.

Subd. 2.Possession of unlawful animals brought into state prohibited.

(a) A person may not possess a wild animal that has been unlawfully taken, bought, sold, or possessed outside the state, or unlawfully shipped into the state.

( When entering the state from Canada, a person who possesses fish that were unlawfully taken or possessed under paragraph (a) may be charged in the same manner as for possessing fish that were unlawfully taken or possessed in the state.

[superbee]

There has to some sort agreement in place for them to work together on issues. You see often that charges are placed on people residing in the states and their local DNR charging or even confiscating items. It would seem more logical for Ontario MNR to check vehichle before leaving Canada. Then again, everyone would say "what a way to thank the US fisherman for visiting Canada and using gustapo tactics". I will ask one of local CO's next time I see him and post the response.

[James_R]

Well, there's my answer I guess. Thank you much guys. You know your statutes for sure. It's just too bad we have to waste our tax dollars enforcing other countries laws whether its fish fillets or rosewood guitars. I wonder if Canada ever seizes any Cuban cigars on our behalf or charges any 20 year old USCs with underage alcohol possession?

[cam white]

Well, there's my answer I guess. Thank you much guys. You know your statutes for sure. It's just too bad we have to waste our tax dollars enforcing other countries laws whether its fish fillets or rosewood guitars. I wonder if Canada ever seizes any Cuban cigars on our behalf or charges any 20 year old USCs with underage alcohol possession?

Ahhhh.... no.

[EJ_Mac]

It's just too bad we have to waste our tax dollars enforcing other countries laws whether its fish fillets or rosewood guitars.

It's not that our DNR is enforcing "other countries'" laws. As MinnDak clearly posted above, it's actually a MINNESOTA LAW that you cannot transport illegally-taken wildlife into the state, so it's a violation of OUR laws - not Canada's

This is essentially a state version of the Lacey Act, a federal law which makes it a crime to transport illegally-taken wildlife into the U.S. Waste of taxpayer dollars? The alternative is to ignore it and not help other countries regulate their wildlife trade (countries which really have no "DNR" enforcement to speak of). Since "wildlife" doesn't generally recognize international borders, it's an important issue for everyone.

[trapperdirk]

No different than moving drugs really . I think it's good they work together .Some folks even think that it's ok to pillage another countries resources just because they spent money there . What I really like about it is that if they were charged in Ontario what are the odds they would return to face the music but they would have no choice if they got busted in their own backyard .Even when convicted in absentia there is no way to collect the fines from another countries citizens .

TD

[JPenny]

Very insightful TD. However, when you get popped in Canada, usually if you don't have the money to pay on the spot, you go to jail until you can arrange to get it there. They don't just write you a ticket and turn you loose because they are well aware most would not send payment later. The Canadians are not stupid. It's our privilage to visit Canada, not our right. And those who decide to go beyond their limits and laws deserve everything they get. And Minnesota is not enforcing Canadian laws, Minnesota has their own laws. With any fines leveled in Minnesota, the money stays here, not sent to Canada.

[Raider4ever]

Think about it folks, this is basically a state law saying you cannot bring stolen property into the state of MN. If you get down to it, keeping any fish above another state's/province's designated limit is technically theft. Bringing it into another state/province is technically transporting stolen goods. TECHNICALLY, if you brought too many fish in from another state in the nation, TECHNICALLY, the FBI COULD be involved as it MAY be considered transporting stolen goods across state lines. Is this Reductio ad absurdum? Yes, yes it is to a point. But, ask the idiots who steal cars from Duluth and bring them to Superior, WI or vice versa for a joyride who makes the collar if they are so inclined.

[trapperdirk]

Actually JPenny, Canada would never jail you till the fine is paid . You will be good to go in the majority of cases unless its an extreme criminal case . Were not like Texas and you will likely be released the same day or at time of charge with just a signature to promise to appear . LOL . The one thing they will do though if somebody decides to ever cross back over they will not let you in till fines are paid or arrest you if the offense was one that had jail time included .

Things are changing but that's how it is at moment here in Ontario . They will even chase us as residents harder to get fines paid than our brothers to the south or anywhere in the world . LOL . Here they go after us if you have a drivers license or license plate and go to renew it . Then you pay up or no renewal . LOL

[trapperdirk]

Also to add to this you are considered innocent till proven guilty and just because you got a ticket does not mean your guilty and you do have the right to defend yourself in court . Court days for wildlife violations for the most part are not considered criminal offenses in most jurisdictions and court hearings can take months before they come up . Nah we don't want to feed and board anybody for over fishing . lol

Mind you they likely will seize all your fishing gear till court date and in serious cases can even seize your vehicle till the trial is over but it's very rare . However if you lose at trial or fail to appear everything will be forfeited to the crown or province . Even if guilty sometimes you get your gear back but it's up to the judge .

TD

[JPenny]

I'm happy to hear this TD and it makes sense. I had heard what I stated while in Manitoba and figured it was true enough that I'm careful while I'm there.

[dirtking]

I got a speeding ticket for doing 80 + MPH in Manitoba - Unfoutunatly I was not on the freeway. Gave me a ticket and told me to slow down (lots of animals around here, he said) Went home paid my ticket by credit card - Darn insurance even found out!

[toddb]

None of this makes sense, the MN DNR should be enforcing MN's wildlife laws. MN taxpayers pay the DNR to enforce MN's laws not Ontario's. You can make all the analogies you want but this is bull. I fish alot in MN and very rarely get checked, and if I would happen to get checked by a MN DNR when I came back from CA(on Canadian soil) I personally would go to every extreme to find out why in the sam hill this is happening.

Alot of MN's resources go home illegally, and our DNR should be in MN enforcing our laws...

Let the Feds enforce Federal regs(and MNR enforce their laws)...

[EJ_Mac]

Quote:

None of this makes sense, the MN DNR should be enforcing MN's wildlife laws.

Once again, transporting illegally taken wildlife IS a Minnesota violation. If it happens to have been taken in another country or on federal land, it's a violation of federal law, but MN-DNR CO's are empowered to enforce federal wildlife laws by virtue of being deputized as federal wildlife officers by the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service.

This is done because, as we all know, wildlife law enforcement is spread pretty thin. And it's really not practical for a CO to look at a given situation and think "well, this is a federal violation," and just move on.