stairway HELP

[pheasantpro10]

I need to replace my stairs at the lake and it's on a steep hill and there are about 30 steps and the way they are done now is two stringers and cleats nailed to the sides and they are getting to be pretty unsafe just wondering if there is a better way to do this or do I just replace and do the same thing? My goal is to reduce the number of steps for my aging parents and me too:) thanks in advance hope it makes sense...

[Tom7227]

Decreasing the number of steps won't make it easier for your relatives, might make it harder. Give some thought to building a platform 1/2 way down with an offset for the other half. Might even put a bench at the halfway point.

If you try to cut down on the number of the steps you have to increase the height of each step. Not good for old people.

[cavalierowner]

As was stated, don't reduce the number of steps. It will make the stair steps higher and harder to use. If anything, add more steps to get the riser height (the the vertical distance from step to step) in the neighborhood of 6". Then get that landing in at the midpoint for resting. The other thing that will help is to put in riser boards. They go from one tread to the next and can be made from 1x boards. There should be about a 1" slope on those boards.

Elderly people tend to not lift their feet as well, so the lower riser height helps with that. And the sloped riser board strengthens the treads and helps prevent people from catching their toe on the tread above as they lift their foot up to the next step. Hopefully the sketch below will show what I'm talking about.

[BoxMN]

Here is how we did ours. It is 40 steps from top to bottom. It used ot be straight up and down with fewer stairs, and this is much better. Not to mention that if anybody ever would fall, at least now the mid-platform would stop them half way down, haha! (Ignore the hole, I am trying to get some good vegetation growing there now. People before us started to dig it out, not sure why...)

[chad austin]

If you plan on having this inspected then this will not work as IRC code states that stairs must have a nosing on the tread itself. The stair tread must protrude out past the riser.

It was put into the code because having a nose on the tread actually is less of a trip hazard than not having one at all.

IRC Code R311.5.3.3 Profile - is where I got this information.

Pheasantpro, I can PM you the code for stairways or else the city that you would be pulling the permit from should have a handout on this issue.

[crothmeier]

+1

Nosing is required, and I believe that the maximum stair riser height is 7-3/4" (on a deck). Typically you want to shoot for around 7.

I'd run 15 steps, landing and then the rest. break it up.

[cavalierowner]

If you plan on having this inspected then this will not work as IRC code states that stairs must have a nosing on the tread itself. The stair tread must protrude out past the riser.

It was put into the code because having a nose on the tread actually is less of a trip hazard than not having one at all.

IRC Code R311.5.3.3 Profile - is where I got this information.

Pheasantpro, I can PM you the code for stairways or else the city that you would be pulling the permit from should have a handout on this issue.

Is the IRC different than the IBC? If so, then I apologize for the confusion. But I still maintain that the riser height should be in the range of 6" especially if it is an exterior stair and will be used by an aging person.

[K_Josh87]

I have done a few at 5.5-6 inch rise with an 2x12 run... it works very well for older folks and seams like a ton of steps, when a younger person tries to fly up them, but taking a slower pace as an elderly person will, it is much much easier...

[cavalierowner]

When I design commercial buildings, I have to comply with the MN Accessibility Code. The accessibility code is designed for not just a disabled person but the elderly as well. Since the OP was looking for something that would make his stair easier for his aging parents, I suggested a design for that. Take a look at the Accessibility code here http://ia700306.us.archive.org/12/items/gov.mn.accessibility/mn_accessibility.pdf

and look at Fig. 504.5. Of those options, the vertical riser (a) won't be allowed because other parts of the code require a 1" minimum nosing. While I understand this is not commercial, I was responding to what the code recognizes as what works for accessibility. I have been to numerous accessibility seminars over the years and the sloped riser profile is the one that most presenters say is the easiest to navigate. That's why all buildings I have designed over the years have that sloped riser profile.

I would suspect that a residential building inspector would accept something in the MN Accessibility Code. I hope this explains where I was coming from. After better than 40 years working as an architect, there are some things I do without thinking because they have stood the test of time.

[Tom7227]

With any luck the guy is building in Wisconsin and I doubt that anyone over there gives a hoot.

[cavalierowner]

With any luck the guy is building in Wisconsin and I doubt that anyone over there gives a hoot.

You've never had to work with WI's codes have you?

[pheasantpro10]

Hey boxmn you have about the same situation as I have. Did you just splice the bottom stringers to the posts? I built a resting area-deck last year but not sure how to go about the bottom set I would like to cut out the steps instead of doing it like they are now with blocks on the sides then the tread sits on top thanks for all your help I like to see the different ideas thanks

[BoxMN]

The stringers are bolted to the posts on the side, and have joist hangers (not sure if I am using correct terms here) connecting to the platform, in addition to bolts, I believe. Some kind of brackets along with special cuts in the stringers to make it flush. The posts are really set into the hill solid, especially at the platform, unlike my old stairs.

It really works well, and I think it is 3' wide. My old stairs were 4' wide and it is nicer to be be able to hold both rails for the old folks going down and coming up without reaching so far. I didn't add electric yet, but will put an outlet at bottom, in middle and at top. I have a 12/3 run to the top so far, but not hot yet, so I will be able to turn on/off from inside cabin eventually.

Good luck!

edit - doh! I see what you are talking about now. Yes, they are spliced at about middle, with plates at each end of the stringers and they are bolted together at the plate too. The tread is the same width/length at the splice I believe, but you can see the risor appears to be slightly "longer" at that point. Hope that makes sense. You can sort of see it at the third post up from the bottom, and can see the plate behind going across.

I can try to take pic this weekend of it. Can you tell I am not a carpenter, but a good helper?... haha! I know enough to get me in trouble, and my buddies help me out of it! haha!

[Tom7227]

It would seem to me that the setup that Box used is ideal for this type of setting. The lack of risers makes it a lot easier to keep the stairway clean. I guess that I might consider adding some lights in case folks are using them in the evening. A platform/landing at the bottom as he has might also be useful as a nice even spot to start or stop the trip on the stairs. Maybe even a bit of a bench on the landing? Box might also need a drinking fountain to help folks make it all the way up that hill.