Sit on Flush training

[Jmnhunter]

anyone teach their dog sit to flush? as part of my training regime, I'm starting to and

as of right now I'm starting with the dog sitting every time I throw a bumper or ball,

I have tried using live pigeons and quail but most of the time the dog ends up catching it.

Any tips for starting to sit to flush on training birds? I dont have a bird launcher, so

for starts I will be throwing a wing clipped pigeon, then perhaps dizzying flyers and

having the dog flush them and let them go, i'm just hoping he doesnt catch them.

for this weekend, I do not plan on bringing a gun when I bring the dog out, and I will let my

buddies do the shooting and I'll be correcting him anytime there is a flush.

[LABS4ME]

I have trained all my dogs to sit to flush. A short whistle blast for 'sit' 9train prior to sit to flush training) is the initial command and many dogs just get to a point where they'll sit on the flush with out a whistle blast.

Use a check cord when working them towards a planted pigeon. We'd slightly wing clip or use a launcher. I wanted them to fly about 20-30 yards and land again. Use the check cord and whistle blast immediatley on the flush and make sure they comply. Do not release the dog to continue hunting until they have sat and are steady. I would usually heel them and hunt them in another direction for 50 to 100 yards and then turn them to gradually work back towards the bird and flush it again. This would simulate a flushed hen.

The next stage is bringing a gunshot into the mix. Work the dog towards the bird, flush it, sit and a buddy shoots a popper or live round into the air and let the bird fly away (simulating a miss), the dog should remain steady till again released to carry on hunting.

The final step is to actually shoot the bird and have the dog sit, remain steady until released to retrieve the bird. All this generally can be trained in a couple of afternoons. The more you work on them, the better they will get. It is tough to train in hunting conditions...

Good Luck!

Ken

[Jmnhunter]

thanks Ken, that is pretty much excalty what my book is telling me;

I've been working with him on the sit whistle and thats doing well,

next will be the birds again, its just been frustrating when I tried

to last few times, but he ends up catching all of them when they "flush"

i suppose I could try setting a pigeon out again without dizzying and

making it have a greater chance of actually flushing prior to the dog getting there!

I'm almost wondering if I would be better off leaving the dog in the truck

while we walk the 1st pheasant field on opener, and bring him back out

when we are duck hunting to avoid back tracking in the future?

[Ufatz]

Ken's post is all you need to know.

[Jmnhunter]

one more question ken, do you start saying a command like

"no bird" after he has sat and watched the bird fly away?

the times i have started to throw the pigeon and making him sit,

he just wants to run to whereever the bird landed.

so after he sits and marks it, do I pull on the check cord saying

no bird and the hunt command?

[LABS4ME]

you can certainly incorporate another command such as 'no bird' into the mix. I'd heel him up after the flush and walk in the opposite direction form the flush while at heel... then when 50-100 yards away release him to hunt again... this is good obedience reinforcement also. He is doing as you command, not what he wants... Make sure he has a check cord on him for all instantaneous corrections.

In the beginning stages I use a cord even if my dog is collar conditioned... you know you will make a correction with the cord... he may run through a correction on the collar. Once he gets it, you can slide into the collar for corrections which should be minimal at that point.

stick with it... when the bulb goes on, they progress through this training rapidly. They begin to put the pieces together that in order to hunt more or retrieve, they have to sit to flush... if you are serious about the sit to flush, never shoot or at least do not let your dog retrieve a bird in which he doesn't sit... you will begin to dig a hole you'd rather not be in.

Good Luck!

Ken

[Down2Earth]

I would never train my dog to sit to flush. I want my dog to be as close to the pheasant when it hits the ground as possible. If a pheasant isn't dead when it hits the ground more often then not it's running. I want to have the best chance at getting that bird and my dog being 20 ft from the bird when it hits the ground is going to have a better chance then one that is 40 yards away. I understand the sit to flush so you don't shoot your dog on low flying birds, but I'll just let those go if I have to and that sure doesn't happen very often.

[LABS4ME]

and ironically when a dog sits and marks a falling bird, it marks it better. It is also useful when hunting more than 1 dog so there isn't utter chaos at the fall site with multiple dogs converging on a bird...

Also, I sure hope if you are hunting a retriever it is able to track a wounded bird...

With that said, I do not always sit my dogs to flush, but I certainly have the ability too when I want to use it. I've used it quite a numbr of times when hunting close to roads and bird flushes out over a road, along barb wire fencces and the such...

In the end it just is another step in a well finished gun dog.

Good Luck!

Ken

[Rick]

Ken hit the nail on the head here. A steady dog to wing and going to retrieve on command not only does what Ken mentioned but also limits the risk a chasing dog has of getting shot on a low flyer.

[Jmnhunter]

Ken, how do you switch on and off your dogs to sit to flush?

My main decision to teach him sit to flush is like mentioned above, steadiness. and my dog is also going to be a watefowler. in one of Butch goodwin's books, he mentioned he trains dogs both ways (sit to flush and letting the dog run to retrieve instantly) but he says if you let the dog retrieve right away, dont expect your dog to stay still and be steady when your shooting ducks.

[LABS4ME]

All mine are taught stediness at a young age for waterfowl and how to sit to flush. I enforce those rules when they hunt at a young age. I always require stediness in the duck blind and over time become somewhat laxed in the upland field as they mature.

I can still sit them to flush with a whistle blast if I want and they will, (relative to a dog's perseption of 'will') sit to flush. Seems I generally use it on birds flushing by roads, fences and if I want a young dog to get the retrieve. I also use it when my dogs are posting with me. If I send them in to the end of the field as the walkers are gettiing close, and the birds start popping I hit my whistle so they can hopefully mark as many downed birds as possible. If they chase down the first one, they may end up missing a crip that is sailing... and that would be the first one I send them on.

Ultimately if you train for it, they should begin to decipher when you will enforce the rules and when you don't. I guess I don't train them 2 different ways, just over time it morphs into my style....

Good Luck!

Ken

[Hazzard]

I wish I would have finished my dogs to sit on flush. I had $350 in vet bills from barb wire in Sodak last year. Now I just do not hunt the fence rows as close. It is a hard thing to finish a dog right but worth it in the end.

[Glock]

Sitting at flush and waiting to be released like the others said. Marking the landing spot of a bird can be one of the hardest things to train. Give me a dog who can mark downed birds anytime.

glock

[FCspringer]

Once you have a "Good" steady dog you will not go back. Marking the downed birds is not as tough as one thinks. Some do it better then others and those are the dogs we want to pass on those traits. We can not tell markability in a dog if the dog is under the bird when it hits the ground. This is one more good reason for it along with the safety reasons above. I use the place board method to steady our dogs. It is more reliable and easier to teach. Plus most of my training is alone and it works well for that reason too. There are several clubs out there you can get involved with that you can learn this stuff as well.

[Jmnhunter]

just bought a bird launcher, i couldnt keep the dog from catching pigeons on the flush, so time for a different technique

[Jmnhunter]

just an update on my training: got him to sit on tennis balls and dummies from the launcher, along with pheasant wings and frozen spoonbills, live pigeons on the other hand is a whole new game and he just goes nuts, but he is starting to get the name of the game. I will soon bring in the shotgun into the scenerio when he is sitting on flush without me holding back with the lead...