Willow Cats?

[JewellOutdoors]

I'm looking for a will cat supplier. Isn't everyone fishing Walleye on the Mississippi? Anyway, I have some tournament guys that are big into them, and would probably go through a hundred dozen if we had access.

Anyone used em? What's your success?

[ozzie]

I had the luck to have a few of them in my bait during one ice season and every one I put down caught me a walleye but I never see them for sale so I have never had a trip where they are my main bait but sure would like to find a supplier that has them.....

[JewellOutdoors]

Here in La Crosse - they are giving (taking - depending on view point), $18 per dozen. Wish I had a supplier too. Thought I'd throw it out there and just see who knows a guy...that knows a guy. As long as it is legal - I got in too much trouble last year!

[Brad B]

What I would like to see is more bait shops around minnesota start to carry bullheads as bait. right now most of the cat guys just catch their own but it would be nice to have a bait shop that sells them for those that don't use them that often and don't catch their own. Not only do the flathead cats like bullheads but so does the larger walleyes. bullheads as bait for walleye guys may seem odd but they do work. I do know of 2 shops that have them but they are out of the way.

[JewellOutdoors]

Interesting thought Brad. If I can find a way to ship them - I will start carrying them!

[Brad B]

I don't know if you followed it last year with the MN legislature(it may have been the DNR that made this change) but they changed the rules to allow the use of up to 10 inch bullheads as bait and suckers up to I believe 12 inches(read the MN reg book it is listed in there). the part that gets me wondering is if you read the regs it says that bullheads 7inches and under are considered minnows under the bait laws but the ones that are 7 to 10 inches are counted against your 100 fish bullhead limit. So how I read the regs is a person could have up to 244 bullheads as bait 144 7" or less (classified as minnows in the regs : which has a 12 dozen max limit per person) + 100 7 to 10 inch for the total of 244. I wonder if the legislature or DNR realized this when they made the change. to keep it simple they should of just said a person can only have 100 bullhead regarless of size and that only the 10" and under can be used as bait. even the die hard cat guys don't even keep that many around at one time maybe 60 to 75 but never anymore.

[Brad B]

the other thing to remember is if a walleye guy is going to use a bullhead as bait and they are fishing a river that has flathead cat in it they will want to run atleast a 50lbs(12lbs dia) braided line with a heavy fluoro leader(seaguar makes fluoro leader material up to 100lbs) instead of mono.

[JewellOutdoors]

Haha - thats a good thought Brad! Although, 244 bullheads would be a heck of a lot to go carting around! We used to catch them in hooper traps when we would trap out our Walleye fingerlings, in one particular pond. If we had any walleye left, we'd sort them out, and then grind up the bullheads as leech bait. Maybe keep a few fat ones for eatin!

[Ed Carlson]

Here is a little secret for you. Small young Waterdogs 4" to 5" work just as well if not better on river eyes. Ask a bait trapper/dealer as soon as the ice leaves the ponds if they are getting any in the minnow traps. Most commercial bait dealers do not want them and they are not costly. They are more of a nuisance to them to sort out of the minnows than anything.

They are not hard to trap yourself either, once a population is located. They go for baited traps. Stock ponds and old gravel pits are often key spots to look for them to populate.

[JewellOutdoors]

Good Tip Ed- we'll have to see if we can "acquire" some!

[Ed Carlson]

We catch a lot of the biggest eyes on the Red River and other regional rivers on Waterdogs. They are exceptional catfish baits too. Bass and Pike also like them.

I can usually sell as many as I can find in short order here in the FM area. They caught on big time since I introduced them to the river guys of the region. The guys drive down from Grand Forks to Fargo to stock up when I had them on hand at Gander.

They are very durable to store as well. Tough critters.

If you get Gary Roach cornered some time, ask him about Waterdog Tactics for walleye. He is an old master with them. He may spill some old guide secrets on rigging and when and where to use them.

[JewellOutdoors]

I remember catching them a lot when out checking minnow traps as a kid. I used to bring them home in a pail and play with them - and let em go in our pond. Should've been selling the darn things!

[Ed Carlson]

Jewell I suspect if you can find a supply they will go quickly in that area. When you have a active bass, catfish, and walleye fishery they catch on preaty quickly.

I predict the uninitiated Waterdog fishing cat guys will be very surprised at how viciously the cats smash a Waterdog on the strike.

I have used Willowcats / Stonecats for walleye and they will hit the Waterdogs with the same zeal and vigor.

They are easy to keep too. When your sorting nightcrawlers and find some sad looking ones, just toss them in the "Dog Tank"....then watch them fight over them.

Waterdogs are known to be nest robbers and eat fish eggs opportunistically. I think this is why nesting and spawning fish tend to Whack them on sight. Cats appear to really hate them during pre and post spawn and again in late fall. I found them a superior bait during catfish spawning cycles while other baits produced...didly... nada...zipo.

In this region we use the immature Tiger Salamander (Ambystoma tigrinum) species of the Waterdogs. They are plentiful and not in any danger as a species. In some areas there may be salamanders that are in danger so one should know what species your dealing with regionally. The Tiger Salamander is the most common yet there are others that may be protected and one should know how to ID them and be sure to release them unharmed if you come upon them.

Here is an interesting read on Waterdogs as Bass bait. This easily translates over to other fish species like walleye and Catfish.

"Waterdogs, The Superbait" In-Fisherman Waterdog fishing artical.

[south_metro_fish]

So after doing a little research and remembering what I heard back in the day sense 2004 willow cats have been illegal to sell in MN. How ever it is not illegal to use them in MN. I think the big deal came from again invasive spices and how a lot of willow cats are caught on the Mississippi making it illegal to transport. Sounds like some use to come from up north but with the threat of invasive species I think they just wanted to shut it down. I believe they are still legal to sell in WI but that must be why they are 14 a dozen. Ever sense I was little kid I remember all the old timers on the river swearing by willow cats as the best spring bait for walleyes. I have heard walking around with fine mesh dip nets in shallow slews in the mud for them in the spring. I did find a small thread from 2005 on here about it all.

http://www.hotspotoutdoors.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/417316/No_more_willow_cats

Found more it looks like they switched it around a few years later.

Willow cats now on legal bait list

By Jeff Dankert | Winona Daily News

Minnesota walleye anglers got their willow cats back.

Gov. Tim Pawlenty signed a Minnesota game and fish bill Friday that adds willow cats to the state's list of legal bait minnows.

The bill makes the rule "effective the day following final enactment." That means willow cats became legal again Saturday on the Minnesota side of the Upper Mississippi River.

Lawmakers this session introduced the provision to the fish and game bill after the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources discovered last spring that statutes did not allow them among legal baits.

Willow cats, also known as tadpole madtoms, are small members of the catfish family. Anglers and bait shops collect and sell them for about $8 a dozen along the Mississippi River from Red Wing south to Iowa.

At Four Seasons fishing shop Sunday in Red Wing, clerk Matt Mettling said the store would be getting some from a bait supplier early this week.

"Everyone's been asking for them," he said.

Mettling said a Saturday morning Midwest Outdoors television show caused some of this weekend's buzz about willow cats. The program featured professional angler Ted Takasaki and local angler Terry Wiemann catching some nice walleyes on the river near Red Wing.

Halfway into the segment they revealed their bait choice. Takasaki gingerly held his hand open to show a lively, squirming willow cat. Like all members of the catfish family, they have three spines that can deliver a poisonous sting.

Before anyone cries foul, Wiemann's wife, Kelley, said the segment was filmed before the ban was announced last year.

In Winona, Len Kaczorowski at West End Bait said he was happy to see an end to the yearlong ban.

"We're going to have to try and get the customers we had before," he said. "The guys won't have to travel to Wisconsin to get them."

The DNR notice last year was not really a ban, but a clarification of existing rules. However, anglers were allowed to buy willow cats in Wisconsin, where they were legal, and use them anywhere on the Mississippi River bordering Minnesota.

Minnesota law already bans commercial collection of willow cats or any other bait from waters classified as infested by invasive species, such as zebra mussels and water milfoil. This includes the Mississippi River south of St. Anthony Falls in Minneapolis. The bait collection ban prevents transporting water infested with invasive species to other waters.

The fish and game bill contained several dozen changes. Starting next spring, anglers can only keep one walleye up to 20 inches, from the current 24. The bill also prohibits computer-assisted remote hunting, a phenomenon in which clients operated a gun via the Internet and shot animals at remote game farms.

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So with that in mind it just looks like the supply might be the problem. Finding them in noninvasive species water must be a challenge to meet demand.

[Ed Carlson]

Ya..Yada..Yada.Yada...in the end the only way they will nail down invasive species is a total ban on any live bait from location A to location B...and unfortunately it may come to that.

But what the heck is this [PoorWordUsage]?

"The bill also prohibits computer-assisted remote hunting, a phenomenon in which clients operated a gun via the Internet and shot animals at remote game farms."

OK...like Vut-Da-L is that?

So...guys need to shoot game by remote now..at home off the internet.

Come...ON...Really?

GEEEEZZZZZ!

[reinhard1]

remote hunting with computers? never heard of it. sad if it's true. leglislators are falling all over themselves inventing new ways to combat invasive species. we can curtail them but not get rid of them. unfortunatly we have a few people who dont follow simple rules and the rest of the fisherman that are responsible are met with more stringent rules. good luck.

[JohnMickish]

Remote hunting has been around for years. Most of the "hunts" are on private preserves in Texas. People have been trying to outlaw it since it's inception.