Sioux Mascot

[cbrooks]

Your right Standing Rock had a chance to voice there opinions and never did. In my opinion without Standing Rock's approval North Dakota will be judged the way you mention from outsiders.

[scsavre]

So who is to say the Seminoles are not offended. Has the question ever been asked -are the North Dakota tribes offended by the use of the Florida Seminole name and mascot. Those of you who complain and pretend to have passion shouldn't be any more mad about one or the other. The NCAA is hypocritical, if they really cared about mascots being offensive they would get rid of all of the Native American logos and names, or keep them all. Havent the Seminoles pretty much sold out to businesses and promotions anyway. The logo and name is a promotion to their business and success at this point.

Also, if Ralph was alive I guarantee this would be alot more interesting. He wouldnt pay the indians off, guaranteed. Some say it was a battle that he enjoyed. If he was as racist as some say, I bet he loved the thought of turning a college and state against the Native Americans.

I hate the Sioux, but really what else is there in ND to be proud of, Phil Jackson....2 baseball players.....a big flood every year....and an oil field that seems to only be making non citizens rich.

[cbrooks]

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I hate the Sioux, but really what else is there in ND to be proud of, Phil Jackson....2 baseball players.....a big flood every year....and an oil field that seems to only be making non citizens rich.

You forgot about Lawrence Welk

On a side note. The NCAA will let the Fighting Sioux host the Ice Breaker tourament next year. This is a NCAA tourament. They had it in St Louis last year with poor attendance. This shows the NCAA is about money.

[scsavre]

Brooks, I don't know if giving the sioux this tournament helps your case of the ncaa hating und,

[cbrooks]

The NCAA are haters. The fact that there interested in making money doesn't change that IMO. UND's hockey program won't suffer if the name is kept but the rest of there athletics will. It was just a crazy theory but I still think the way Ralph bully the two previous UND presidents around had to upset some of the people at the NCAA. Here's a link to the "Dear Chuck" letter Ralph sent to the president and the Herald so it was a public to everybody.

http://www.und.edu/org/bridges/dearchuck.html

[scsavre]

An NCAA spokesman says the association's policy on the University of North Dakota's Fighting Sioux nickname and logo hasn't changed.

The North Dakota Senate on Friday approved a bill that orders UND to keep its nickname and logo. The NCAA considers them hostile and abusive to American Indians.

The NCAA has said if UND keeps the name and logo, the school won't be able to host postseason tournaments. UND athletes also won't be able to wear the name and logo on jerseys during postseason events.

This is the NCAA comment after the ND senate put into law to keep the name.

NCAA spokesman Erik Christianson says in a statement that the bill "is a state issue, and the NCAA policy remains unchanged."

Some supporters of the UND nickname bill said the legislation might persuade the NCAA to change its policy.

Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://washingtonexaminer.com/news/2011/...y#ixzz1GLJViyl1

[Steve Foss]

Oh, and a little history. Back in 1969 the Standing Rock elders granted the university the "right" to use the Sioux nickname. There was no expiration date on that, as far as I know. It was during the same ceremony they made UND Pres. George Starcher an honorary chief of the tribe. These things were done through a pipe ceremony, a ceremony sacred to the tribe.

It was a very big deal at the time, and came during a period when there was a lot of tension nationally between Native Americans and whites. Tribal elders don't do those things lightly.

Whether or not that was brought to the NCAA's attention when as part of the lawsuit settlement they said UND could keep the nickname if both tribes approved, I don't know. Certainly, one logical interpretation would be that both tribes already have approved the nickname's use.

I expect it might be part of the evidence presented in the next lawsuit against the NCAA, if it comes.

[Steve Foss]

And here's more from the last couple of days in the Grand Forks Herald.

Quote:

Steve Fool Bear, Grand Forks, column: Represent the majority — Indian and non-Indian

By Steve Fool Bear

GRAND FORKS — About three years ago, I wrote a letter that helped spark a different perspective on the logo issue, a perspective that resonated across the state and much of the nation (“Sioux: Embrace culture,” Page D2, March 23, 2008).

The letter used the logo issue as a way to reveal and address the hypocrisy and corruption that now plagues Native America. I revealed the unpopular facts of this issue: The permission already given by the Standing Rock governing body in 1969, the ceremony that cannot be undone, the evidence showing a two-thirds majority in support — evidence that has been proven true time and time again — and the hypocrisy of Indian tribes’ own athletic names and logos.

After all, if the nicknames are so derogatory, then why do we use them ourselves? Why does the anti-logo group not acknowledge this fact?

Common sense has brought this issue to where it is now. Since that letter this fight has taken many different directions, and now it lies in front of the North Dakota Senate.

What many senators do not realize is that the fight waged in favor of the logo by American Indians is a fight for our freedoms: our right to speak, our right to addresses grievances with the government, our right to live free from oppression, all the violations that have been bestowed on our Indian peoples due to this issue by our own governing bodies.

Our voices have been silenced by a few for far too long, and that’s what we seek to end. If we have not an opinion, then we have not freedom. We have not a majority voice and then have not a democracy.

That is what the issue is about for American Indians. Many nickname proponents have been stigmatized by our own people. We have been attacked in the media, in the classrooms and most of all our homes.

We seek to reveal the truth, no matter how hurtful it may be to those in denial.

The truth is that Indians are NOT enemies, victims, hypocrites or wards of state. This has nothing to do with an arbitrary symbol; the logo is a catalyst to social change.

American Indians are no longer oppressed by the American governing bodies. We are oppressed by our own self-righteous few, who have destroyed our culture and stifled any progress or hope for our people’s future.

Those who wish to press their narrow-minded elitist agendas on the whole are doing so by using any means necessary. They do this so they can beat their chests and brag how they defeated the white man.

I grew up with these people, and this is all they seek. By allowing them to do this, North Dakota will have abandoned whatever hope there was to bridge our two cultures. The divisions will continue. The majorities will be silenced, the corruption on the reservations will continue to run rampant, and those who now are stigmatized will be ostracized for doing what was right and what was American: standing up for the majority when no one else would.

The truth will once again be silenced.

I urge senators to listen to their common sense. Money and resources come and go; we are one of the wealthiest states in the nation. Why not defend our traditions?

Senators are elected to represent the majority, both Indian and non-Indian alike; it is that simple.

I urge senators to help us reveal the truth.

Fool Bear is a UND senior and a member of the Standing Rock Sioux Nation.

[Big Tom]

Nice read.

Tough to go through life with the name "Fool Bear"

[Steve Foss]

Tough to go through life with the name "Fool Bear"

Not really. It doesn't mean quite what it sounds like.

[cbrooks]

It kind of strange that it seems the Native America's want to keep the name now. Before the tribual vote last year at Spirit Lake Reservation I thought that it was the majority that wants the name gone. 2/3 wanted the name to stay. In all honestly the North Dakota School Board gave Standing Rock Reservation there chance to vote which never happen and the deadline has passed for it. I think it could go either way I just hope it doesn't drag on for 5 years.

[Bear55]

Good info Steve, I had not seen that before, it just kind of makes you shake your head at everything.

I am also kind of wondering if UND should just go ahead and:

"The NCAA has said if UND keeps the name and logo, the school won't be able to host postseason tournaments. UND athletes also won't be able to wear the name and logo on jerseys during postseason events."

Kind of flip off the NCAA and keep the name, not hosting events and wearing a logo might seem like a big deal but I think its worth it to keep the name.

[Steve Foss]

Well, it's not likely UND would host a big NCAA hockey event anymore regardless, because I'm told the NCAA has moved away from those venues for tourney Division 1 hockey. So that's no actual loss. And it wouldn't be that hard to make separate home and road jerseys without the logo and nickname for NCAA tournament appearances.

Could be that's exactly the way things will go.

Other UND sports are more negatively impacted by the NCAA bullsnot than hockey is, though.

[cbrooks]

Other UND sports are more negatively impacted by the NCAA bullsnot than hockey is, though.

Thats why part of me says lets get rid of the name.

[Steve Foss]

Well, it's not done, with the latest legislative action. The NCAA has maintained that if both Dakota tribes in N.D. approve it, it's OK with the NCAA. Gonna take awhile to play out again.

Makes a fella impatient for resolution, but where there are people, there is drama.

[scsavre]

It sounds like they are worried about the other teams, not hockey. I didnt realize there even was other sports there.

UND has bid for regional tournies in hockey.

[cbrooks]

Well, it's not done, with the latest legislative action. The NCAA has maintained that if both Dakota tribes in N.D. approve it, it's OK with the NCAA. Gonna take awhile to play out again.

Makes a fella impatient for resolution, but where there are people, there is drama.

Your last sentence is perfect. In the fewest words drama about sumes it up. I hope the nickname is base on the Native Americans approval. Let it be known that they weren't bought either. Some people would assume they were holding out for money and that hasn't been the case at all.

[cbrooks]

North Dakota Governor sign the bill to keep the name this week. So this will drag out past my lifetime.

[scsavre]

Oh, this is back again.

Und has decided to renew its merchandise logo for the 2012 season. It never ends.

[cbrooks]

My prediction...this thing drags out for another 4 or 5 years. Could be even longer. I wouldn't be surprise if this gets to the supreme court. UNd and the governor had a meeting set up with the NCAA which was going to be public and the NCAA cancel the meeting. This buys UND more time I guess.

[scsavre]

Looks like the ncaa could care less about the sioux and there little law and decision to continue use of the logo.

The ncaa is sticking to the policy. No post season hosting and no wearing the jerseys durring post season. Unless standing rock gives permission. What a waste of time. I don't hockey caresmuch. But the rest of the sports might.

[OnAFly]

Is the Standing Rock tribe against it, or just unwilling to put up a vote for it?

[scsavre]

Holding out for money is what some will tell you. But yes they voted it down a couple times. I think the first few pages touch on that.

[brmuskie]

I don't think they voted on it. The timeline passed without a vote I believe.

Long live the Fighting Sioux!

[cbrooks]

brmuskie is correct. No vote took place on Standing Rock. They had like a year to have a vote and it never happen. It sounds like it would pass if the vote was held too.