Any old skool Mopar guys out there????

[Eric Wettschreck]

68 Fury III with 318, 2 bbl Carter carb, 23,000 actual miles on the girl.

It used to run great, now not so much. If it sits overnight it will start right up, idle great, and run super, for about 15 seconds. Then it dies. Give it a ton of foot feed and it will start, run horrible, spit sputter and backfire (out the exhaust), and die.

Mechanical history: aboot 200 miles ago I put a timing chain, cam gear, and crank gear in it. Ran great afterwards. Recently I've put a cap, rotor, plugs, and plug wires on it. Ran great afterwards. (plugs were pretty carboned up cap and rotor looked in decent shape but were replaced anyway)

Remove the fuel line from the carb and it's getting plenty of gas. My thinking is that it's starving for fuel in the carb, possibly the floats are down and not floating very well. The exterior of the carb is a little wet with fuel and it has been this way for years. It's just a little damp, nothing major. Before I take the carb apart (I don't like carbs and they don't like me) does anyone have any ideas, suggestions, advice on what I could be missing??

I should add, this problem wasn't slow to appear. One day she ran great, the next morning this problem showed it's ugly head.

[jentz]

I'll guess the carb pump needs replacement,Know what it is? Got a schematic?

[Eric Wettschreck]

I've had these types of carbs apart before. Not this one, but the same type. I don't have a schematic but yes, I know what the pump is. Just ordered a carb kit from the parts store. Won't be in until Tuesday but I'm thinking we're both thinking the same thing.

[Macgyver55]

I'm thinking its probably a Carter AVS or AFB. I definitely think its a carb issue though. Could be it has something in the needle seat or the float itself has gone bad. I'm betting once you go through it, clean everything and make the necessary adjustment she will run fine. Make sure to check all of those old hard vacuum lines too!

[Eric Wettschreck]

Make sure to check all of those old hard vacuum lines too!

Replaced em all not too long ago. I'm amazed it ran as good as it did with all the cracked/broken/missing lines.

[jeffreyd]

that was my first car, what a great vehicle. drop that baby in low and hold on, it was a rocket ship. you might have a plugged fuel filter, not sure where they were in that machine but if you have an corrosion in the tank could be plugging it up. might show good fuel with the line off and no load on the system.

[Eric Wettschreck]

The filter is in-line pretty much right in front of the carb.

In the middle of taking the carb apart. She's dirty in there that's fer sure.

It is a fun car to drive, Jeffreyd. I love the power steering. All a guy needs is a pinky finger and the wheel is a spinnin.

[deadeye]

Sounds like your on the right track with the carb.

IDK what year they went to electronic ignition but if its still a points type then it would be worth 10$ to swap out the points and condenser. The condenser always seems to cause problems especially when it sits for a while.

[swamptiger]

I had a couple of vehicles with a 318 and carb - 69 Plymouth Satellite and a 78 Dodge 1/2 ton. They both ran on the lean side even with a clean fuel system, so I'm guessing you have fuel delivery problems. If it has the foam type float in it, I'd replace the float, too - they were known to get saturated with fuel.

[Eric Wettschreck]

This one has electronic ignition. I'm not sure what year they switched from points to HEI or if the previous owner did this, but it's electronic.

Carb was pretty dirty. New kit and float won't be in until Tuesday so the pieces parts are soaking in a pail of solvent.

[swamptiger]

Quote:

This one has electronic ignition. I'm not sure what year they switched from points to HEI or if the previous owner did this, but it's electronic.

It would have had points originally, so that is a later conversion.

[Eric Wettschreck]

When I first bought this car I was a little surprised when I took the cap off and didn't see a set of points. Happily surprised. I didn't know how they rolled off the factory line as far as ignition goes, but seeing the HEI was just fine with me.

[swamptiger]

Quote:

When I first bought this car I was a little surprised when I took the cap off and didn't see a set of points. Happily surprised. I didn't know how they rolled off the factory line as far as ignition goes, but seeing the HEI was just fine with me.

Probably get a little better timing with the electronic ignition, but I must say I grew up with points type ignitions, and the first time I ever had a complete ignition failure on the road was with an electronic ignition. I also had a 69 Dodge Charger R/T in the early 70's, and that one had a dual points Mallory ignition in it straight from the factory.

[Eric Wettschreck]

I understand.

Back when I dealt with point ingitions, on the side of the road a file or pocket knife or the girlfriends nail file would get you back to runnin. Not so much with the HEI ignitons. When they die, they're dead.

[Eric Wettschreck]

Yesterday after work I rebuilt the carb and put it back on.

Runs like doo-doo still. No change. Barely start, spittin and sputterin and backfiring.

I know it's in time. I checked it like a million times. Carb is getting plenty of fuel.

Any other suggestions?

[Jeremy airjer W]

You checked to make sure the rotor lines up with the number one post on the cap when the crank is at TDC? I was thinking maybe the distributor drive gear might have sheared the roll pin and spun on you. I know you said you checked timing but I thought I would mention it as a possibility.

[swamptiger]

Moisture in the distributor cap?

[Eric Wettschreck]

Jer, it's easy enough to check. I'll look when I get home. If this happened, would the rotor turn fairly freely while the dist is still in or is that gear pressed on pretty tight? One thing I'll say I like about these older mopars....nothing is real tough to get at.

Swamp, it's a pretty new cap and it's dry.

Speaking of which, if I end up pulling the distributer, is there a way to test the HEI to make sure it's firing every time it's supposed to.......besides putting a timing light on every plug wire?

[swamptiger]

Quote:

Speaking of which, if I end up pulling the distributer, is there a way to test the HEI to make sure it's firing every time it's supposed to.......besides putting a timing light on every plug wire?

Dunno - first thing I would do is pull the #1 plug and ground it - then turn the engine over to see if you have bright blue spark. Then get the TDC mark on the flywheel pointer and check to see if the #1 piston is at the top, then remove the distributor cap to see where the rotor is sitting.

[Surface Tension]

The gear on the rotor is held on by a roll pin.

If the backfire is out the exhaust its a timing issue IMO.

"Mechanical history: aboot 200 miles ago I put a timing chain, cam gear, and crank gear in it. Ran great afterwards. Recently I've put a cap, rotor, plugs, and plug wires on it. Ran great afterwards. (plugs were pretty carboned up cap and rotor looked in decent shape but were replaced anyway)"

I'm thinking your problem has something to do with the above repair.

It is possible for the engine to run fairly well being 180 degrees off.

Start with putting the old cap and rotor back on.

If she still acts up a timing light.

Then check for TDC on the compression stroke.

[Eric Wettschreck]

I've checked timing like a million times, but to humor myself I checked it again. Everything is lined up dead nuts.

Frustrating.

I'm not the kind of guy that just starts swapping out parts until I get the right one, but I was at my wits end. It's a 318 for cripes sake, there isn't much to it. I grabbed the coil off of my 72 dodge camper and put it on. Runs like a champ. I said, "No way." so I put the old coil back on, pulled the wire from the dist cap, cranked the motor over, and got a good spark arc. Put the coil wire back on, runs like doo-doo. Took that coil off and put the camper one back on, purrs like a kitten.

Go figure. It's a new one to me but what the heck, it's running. Now I just need to go buy a coil.

[swamptiger]

There's a couple different types of those old 12v coils - one had a built-in resistor and the other type used an external resistor - don't know for sure what your system should have.

My 78 dodge with electronic ignition did have an external resistor though when I stop to think about it. It was a ceramic bar mounted up on the firewall, and I remember I had to replace that resistor a couple of times - ignition was completely dead without it.

[Macgyver55]

It was a ceramic bar mounted up on the firewall, and I remember I had to replace that resistor a couple of times - ignition was completely dead without it.

Thats the ballast resistor. Its possible that whoever did the conversion either eliminated it, bypassed it or used the original coil which could lead to premature coil failure.

The ballast resistor is a current limiting device. It does so by dropping about 3 volts across it so only 9 volts gets to the coil instead of 12. Coils that require ballast resistors (like the original point style system) are actually NINE volt coils, the electronic ignition coils are normally a 12 volt.

The reason for the ballast resistor was to give full current to the coil for easier starting while cranking, then dropping to 9 volts after releasing the key. We used to eliminate the ballast resistors for a hotter spark for racing, but the coils failed often.

I should have keyed in on it when you said it was converted, but I've been away from those systems too long now!

Thanks for exercising my brain about "the old days"!

[Eric Wettschreck]

Sorry Mac. I didn't mean to exercise anyone. I hate exercise.

[Surface Tension]

Eric good to hear you figured it out. Thanks for that bit of info Mac.