organization to help Northern Pike fishery

[esoxhunter11]

What does the hardcore fishing community think about this. I would support it and join it, but I dont have enough time to start something like this. Does anyone know of one that exists? I think this Idea should be thrown around, because the Northern Pike fishery is probably one of the most important. From the research I have seen, It can sometimes make or break a lake. Small pike can be a nuisance, but are good to eat. Big pike are sought after, can keep a balance on rough fish and small pike, but are hard to find. I think the muskie inc. community has done a great job, and it is something I would also like to join, but I think Northern pike fishing is important enough to have its own organization. I am just tryn to get some Ideas flowing.

[merkman]

I would support it and join it, but I dont have enough time to start something like this. Does anyone know of one that exists?

Yes,

It is called the Minnesota Darkhouse and Angling Association.

I agree you should join.

[esoxhunter11]

Merkman,

Do you feel spearing is responsible harvest of northern pike. Do you think spearing 36" and bigger fish is better than harvesting 21" to 24" fish. I am not totally against spearing but I do believe it needs just as much research as any other type of fishing. Why do you think I should join that organization? I think people who want to spear should be able to, but they have to follow the same rules. They have every opportunity to spear a trophy, but they should also harvest smaller pike to benefit fishing. Generally Lakes that Dnr have stiffer regulations on are lakes that can produce bigger fish. I read about Minnesota darkhouse and angling association, They should take the angling out of the title. I dont believe that organizations is trying to benefit the Pike fishery or any fishery for that matter.

What else do you got as far as organizations go?

[merkman]

Merkman,

Do you feel spearing is responsible harvest of northern pike.

Absolutely!!

I know a harvested northern pike is harvested no matter the method that harvested it. I know that a successfully released northern pike is released no matter the method that released it

I know the sportsman decides to harvest or release the northern pike not the method.

I know that look and releasing a fish is more responsible and less harmful to the fish than catch and releasing a fish.

I know I am not against the responsible harvest of northern pike via darkhouse spearing or angling.

That is what I know.

I will leave you to your opinions of Darkhouse Spearing Sportsmen.

As far as other organizations; Looks like you have your choice of Muskies Inc or Northerns Inc.

[thrax]

Who brought up the Minnesota Deathhouse and Angling Association again? Never seen a live pike come out of one of those things? (well maybe for a minute or two their alive?)

[merkman]

Who brought up the Minnesota Deathhouse and Angling Association again? Never seen a live pike come out of one of those things? (well maybe for a minute or two their alive?)

Yes thrax,

That is how look and release works.

The released fish never leaves the water.

[Nick Kuhn]

Merkman the fact of the matter is very few sportsmen choose to release pike, and that isn't going to change in 5 or even 10 years time. If you want to see quality pike in Minnesota before you find yourself in a grave the best way is through stricter regulations. Yet the MDAA opposes every regulation that restricts the harvest of pike. Preach education and look and release all you want but it's a drop in the bucket at this time, whilst regulations can serve as a fire-hose...

[merkman]

Merkman the fact of the matter is very few sportsmen choose to release pike

[reinhard1]

i am not a fan of spearing of northern pike. there is no catch and realease in spearing. why pick on northern pike? are they the same class as rough fish? pike are predators just like bass,trout,catfish, and the rest of our gamefish. why not open spearing to all game fish? you know that would never happen because of the great uproar as well as there should be. i have never seen a picture of a small pike taken only big ones. if a lake is depleted of its large predetors it will be overun buy smaller fish. this is fact not my opinion. this is one reason we have slot limits so we can increase the size of pike in certain lakes. anglers have to abide by these slot laws and we can because we can measure the pike after catching them. in a darkhouse looking down at a pike are you able to tell the correct measurments before throwing the spear? i would not leave it to a politican to mess with our fishery. they can screw up a one man ambush. i would only ask those who spear pike to target smaller pike for the table just like most angler. let's work with the dnr whether you like to spear or not. you'r input does work.

[cbrooks]

Merk, do you think the MDHA will ever come to the table with the DNR? From my understanding they refuse to work with the DNR on the long range pike plan.

[merkman]

i am not a fan of spearing of northern pike. there is no catch and realease in spearing.

[merkman]

Merk, do you think the MDHA will ever come to the table with the DNR? From my understanding they refuse to work with the DNR on the long range pike plan.

I don't know.

You should ask them.

Maybe we should ask the MnDNR or these other organizations at the round tables if they even want them there?

Maybe no one cares that they left?

Maybe no one cares that they were there?

[cbrooks]

Maybe MDHA should have stay at the round table to represent there sport. It seems they squander a good opportunity by leaving the round table.

[reinhard1]

mercman-i am not here to argue. i am here to give my opinion. i said i was no fan of spearing not against it. all i said is harvest smaller northerns like i harvest eater walleys. i never said to ban it. as for why pick on northerns-did i say i wanted to spear all game fish? besides northerns and rough fish here in minnesota what other game fish can you spear? so there is my question-why only northerns. there will never be spearing of bass for example, can you hear the uproar that would take place? and again,i dont want that ever to happen. so we dont agree ok, no problem. i have friends that spear. i fish with them. i enjoy being with them. we dont have to agree on everything. personaly i concider the pike the best eating fish. good luck.

[Gordie]

To say that only anglers take small pike for the table is just wrong I know anglers that take big ones also.

and takig pics of small fish weather your fishing or spearing is just not the same as taking pics of big ones and yes you can not release a fish that has been speared but I personally have watched big pike swim thru the hole and as far as I know are still swimming.

management for pike start with guy/gals like us to do our part in following the rules set down by the DNR and I think the law that is in place for pike are good ones with that said there are people out there that still think you can keep 3 of any size pike you want. I came across a tip up fisherman this year that had two fish on the ice that were over thirty inchs and I mentioned to him about the law and he said that he didnt know this and now what should he do.. I said call the dnr or tey and give one of those fish to somebody else... not sure what he did but he did ask several other fisherman if they wanted a pike.

Also I feel that when these restrictions are set into place about pike on certain lake most people will not fish them at all on these lakes like the lakes that are over run with hammer handles for instance I was on a lake this winter up by Deer River and the limit was NORTHERN PIKE: all from 22”- 36” must be immediately released. Only 1 over 36” allowed in possession. Possession limit 9.

and as talked with a local I said that I would love to spear this lake and he stated that please do spear all those little ones cause most of the pike fishermen and spearfishermen stay away from this lake now that this slot is in place. so does it help or hurt the fishery?

I think it boils down to each one of us and we need to lead by example we are the stewards of the outdoors for its future.

[esoxhunter11]

Hey guys, I think this is good conversation. It sounds like it is getting a little heated, which can be a good thing, but lets not get to worked up about it. This information could really benefit the fishery. I dont think anybody is against spearing or angling, as long as it follows the same rules implemented on a lake to improve it. We also have to remember the DNR is there to enforce the laws, and they also research it before they enforce them. If we could provide our sense to these guys it might streamline regulations for the future. The Dnr does there part to improve fisheries, we have to do our part by taking it a step farther with selective harvest, and releasing big fish. I think it is a fact that it helps to keep fish under 24" and release fish bigger. And I am not against keeping a huge fish, but sometimes just a picture could mean a lot more. Unless the majority of people follow these rules, we will never know if it is working. And this works for almost all fish species, not just northern pike. I am a huge fan of Northern pike and Muskie fishing, but I love fishing for every fish, and they all need to be in balance.

[reinhard1]

i agree 100 percent with every word of your post. thank you and good luck.

[jeffreyd]

after reading the history, news, etc on the darkhouse HSOforum, it is clear that they got up and walked away from the dnr meeting. While this is like union negations, it never is good representation to walk away, throw up ones arms, or bad mouth surveys, whether you agree or disagree. You as an organization have to formulate a method to come to the table again, with your points in hand, complete your own survey while dnr will probably not think it is valid, still it can be used as a tool.

I sat face to face with the az game and fish commission on several issues concerning deer management. while there were many times i wanted to do all of the above, we did our own survey, the azgfd did theirs, and when it was all said and done, after many meetings and lots of money, we along with the gfd agreed to allow the herd to grow.

while nothing in my post reflects my favoritism or object to darkhouse spearing, i would not do it personally. the reason for my post is that by getting into pis sing matches especially with the political machines do no one any good. The spearing folks need to approach this with a political approach, the non spearing folks need to approach with a political method. We all want less regulation but, one group should not be allowed perks when another is not.

This question that was the original post was asked if the pike fishery has any representation through a group? You have bass, muskie, walleye and the list can go on, but if this is as important to the many that have posted, then some type of group, whether a 501 c3, a local group of supporters, a conservation group, what ever the case is going to have to come together.

If you really think about it, this question is no different than the point restrictions for deer, the moving of the rut hunt, and that list goes on. The fact remains that in order to get your voice heard you have to do it methodically and meaningful, not by going in yelling and screaming to be heard. Make friends with the people in charge, then use that network to help you. Infighting does not gain anything.

We all need the resource to survive for generations to come, the dnr while some will disagree, are the people that are charged to do this. If there is a disagreement, then research and fact finding will be the only way to change peoples mind.

[reinhard1]

i agree. i have been involved in politics for a long time. from precinct chairman ect. we have to look to the future of fishing. this isn't about us it's about our childred and our grandkids of which i have 4. if someone wants to keep a large fish that person paid for the licence and if it is leagal to do so fine. i like others are only asking all fisherman and women to do their research and look at the facts. myself i have some fish when i can afford it that i will have grafite reproductions done. so far just pictures and how long it was and what it weighs. i dont know if i can add to your great post or others. as far as politics i'm a conservetive as far as the outdoors i think about the future. thank you and good luck.

[merkman]

This question that was the original post was asked if the pike fishery has any representation through a group?

The answer to that has been answered in one of the first posts.

The pike fishery is represented by the following groups.

Minnesota Darkhouse and Angling Association

Muskies Inc

Northerns Inc

Each of these organizations have their own agenda for making the pike fishery "better". Like any political organization they all believe strongly that their way is the "best" and that is about it.

If you choose to be a part of any of these organizations, do your research and the pick one you agree the most with and do your part.

If you don't agree with anything any of these organizations offer; either start your own organization, or don't belong to any.

Pretty simple if you ask me.

Everyone who has posted here wants a strong pike fishery.

Most everyone here believes in this simple truth; harvest the small ones and let the big girls go.

Keep a big one for your wall if you can’t get by with a graphite replica; but if you want eaters eat the small ones.

Now if it is in fact determined that this "simple truth" needs to be implemented via law changes then those laws need to be fairly implemented for all legal methods of northern pike harvest.

The current slot limit implementation that holds a darkhouse spearer to a criminal record for unintentionally killing a slot limit northern pike for an unsuccessful “underwater tail pinch” while at the same time letting the hook and line angler go "scott free" for unintentionally killing the same sized slot limit northern pike via hooking mortality is neither fair nor just.

If slot limits are indeed the future of northern pike management then the changes that are needed to the lower end of the slot to allow darkhouse spearers the same opportunity to harvest small northern pike on slot limit lakes need to be made.

The current thought process of "if you don't like it go somewhere else" is not acceptable for public waters.

The current implementation of the upper limit works for darkhouse spearers since it is a one over limit. It is sad in a way (But acceptable IMO) that if a darkhouse spearing sportsman chooses to harvest a trophy, this top limit will force him or her to harvest an even larger trophy; since they will have to add their spearing buffer on to the top end of the slot, but if that is what it is, it is what it is.

The lower slot is the problem. When a darkhouse spearer adds the spearing buffer to the lower side of a 24” slot, It becomes very hard to find a fish that is large enough to be eaten and small enough to be 100% sure they will not have a criminal record for spearing northern pike just over the lower slot.

Kill that same slot limit northern pike with a hook and line, dump it back down the hole, and keep on fishing; do it with a spear face a fine and criminal record.

No wonder why so many darkhouse spearing sportsmen choose to stay off slot limit lakes.

As for the 26 lakes that are currently banned from the method of darkhouse spearing; either ban all methods of fishing for northern pike on them or open them up to all legal methods. Plain and simple fair is fair.

It absolutely amazes me that rifle, bow hunting, and muzzleloaders can all hunt deer with different regulations without the “emotional issues” us fishermen bring on ourselves.

Our laws and rules need to be fair. That is all I as a darkhouse spearing sportsman am asking for.

There is no doubt we all want a "better" pike fishery, we need to come together to make that happen, not drive each other apart.

[fatfinger]

suggestions to/for mndnr

[mainbutter]

As for the 26 lakes that are currently banned from the method of darkhouse spearing; either ban all methods of fishing for northern pike on them or open them up to all legal methods. Plain and simple fair is fair.

So you're against C&R only lakes as well? How about C&R regulations for other species?

Darkhouse spearing may not be allowed on those 26 lakes, but you sure can look and release just fine.

[jeffreyd]

I understand that the representation has been answered however the three organizations you list work together from what i have gathered from other post like water and oil. So the bigger problem/question remains, how do you get these groups to work together?

They each have an agenda, but you know what, so do all the greens and environmentalist out there that would as soon shut down any angling, hunting, trapping and other sports that involve habitat or animals. So if these groups cant pull their heads out, and figure out what they are going to do for the good of the sport, not one lone species, you and i will loose it for good. Dont think it wont happen? It was tried and was very successful in AZ some years ago. It got trapping taken away. The greens wanted all of it tho and have not stopped fighting.

These type of problems between groups are just what the Sierra Club and Peta want. YOU are doing their leg work for them.

As far as darkhouse goes, never done it, dont know that i would as i noted earlier but it seems to me that if you spear a fish, it has one choice, to die. While fish and hook may pose the same consequences as spearing, i would imagine that more fish survive a catch and release than a spear? Just my observations from the info i have read about the hobby.

Slot limits are no different than point restrictions or rut hunts as noted in my earlier post. The sportsmen and women need to work together, with conversation groups that are wanting to ensure a sport for everyone for ever. The infighting is only going to lead to further problems, and no results. Walking out of meetings, throwing up of hands only indicates to the DNR or whomever you are meeting with that you do not want to work with them.

So if i read your post right, you would sooner shut down the whole thing if darkhouse cannot do their thing? What would the overall outcome from this type of event be? from the sporting community? the habitat? the guides and other tourney vendors and sponsors?

Just wondering.

[esoxhunter11]

I took a look at Northern Inc. It looks like it might be a descent organization, but there is not much on their HSOforum. Does anybody know anything about these guys?

[jeffreyd]

here is an article from the Arizona Republic that discusses similar issues. Not only about fish but wildlife and habitat alone, how the frogs and fish and antelope are coming back because of organizations but wolves are not because they kill cattle.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/07/10/20100710arizona-losing-native-wildlife.html