Jump to content
  • RECEIVE THE GIFTS MEMBERS SHARE WITH YOU HERE...THEN...CREATE SOMETHING TO ENCHANT OTHERS THAT YOU WANT TO SHARE

    You know what we all love...

    When you enchant people, you fill them with delight and yourself in return. Have Fun!!!

Sign in to follow this  
fishin_spooge

River Birch question

Recommended Posts

Why are my river birch trees leaves turning yellow and wilting on some of the branches. I water them enough but not too much, plus it's been raining like crazy. They are about 6' tall variety. They do see a lot of wind as my property doesn't have a ton of trees still but hard to believe that's the issue. Any help appreciated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are a lot of reasons the leaves could be turning and withering. If you have a digital camera, can you take three pics? Closeup of small group of affected leaves, medium view showing the whole tree, and a wider view showing the setting, as well.

That'll help us a lot. smile

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lots of different reasons associated with river birch. If you're watering even with the rain, I would stop. Birches also have a lot of pests and diseases that wreak havoc.

Do you have a picture?

Typically, river birch that are healthy aren't bothered by pests.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe the roots of my trees aren't getting enough water, I don't think they have any of the diseases I see on the internet or any of the insects. Hard to say, the maples I planted are doing fine. I'll get pics up most likely tomorrow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unless you got plastic over the roots, they are getting enough water. There has been no shortage of natural water this year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It'll be interesting to see the pics. A strong possibility is iron chlorosis due to higher pH. Birches in general seem to thrive best at pH levels of 6.5 or less, and river birch is susceptible to chlorosis. Not sure what typical soil pH levels are around the Twin Cities, but I've seen trees suffering from it down there. The river birch is very resistant to the bronze birch borer, so that's good, and they are somewhat tolerant of drier conditions.

Or it could be something completely different. Wilting is not a typical symptom of chlorosis.

Not a bad idea to get your soil tested anyway. The results can serve as a guide on what to plant and not to plant. Andy may know of a good place in the Cities to get that done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is web site with some information.

http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/horticulture/DG1417.html

They say very low susceptibility. Also give some growing information. Die back can be a result of last summer dry weather too. How long has the tree been there?

http://www.na.fs.fed.us/spfo/pubs/howtos/ht_birch/ht_birch.htm

is another site.

quote...

In the forest, birch trees thrive on cool, moist soils. Their very shallow root system makes them sensitive to even short periods of drought or heating of the soil, thus they grow poorly on hot, dry soils. Therefore, homeowners should attempt to place birch trees in locations where the soil will be shaded, cool, and moist. However, birch trees require full to partial sunshine on their leaves to grow well. The challenge is to select a growing site where the soil will remain cool and moist, but where the tree will also receive full sunshine on its leaves for much of the day.

....

Soil acidity - Birch trees do best on slightly acidic soils (pH 5.0 - 6.5), though the white-barked birches especially our native paper birch-are capable of growing well on alkaline soils. River birch often develops iron chlorosis (yellow foliage) in alkaline soils and should be avoided as a tree selection in most cases where the pH is greater than 6.5. Slightly alkaline soils can be made more acidic if you add soil amendments, though it can be difficult to maintain the soil pH over the life span of a tree (discuss this with your county extension agent). Soil tests can be obtained at many county extension offices and some nurseries.

end quote.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I showed my neighbor the trees this afternoon and he said that iron chlorosis was a good possibility and the same thing happened to him. I'll get the pictures on tomorrow afternoon after work. He said he put some fertilizer on them for azeilias and hydrangeas that was acidic twice a year and that turned his around completely. The trees have only been there about 2 months, got them from Home Depot and they stand about 6-7 feet with about 4 trunks per clump. I bought some of that fertilizer and watered it in tonight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I didn't even consider chlorosis, but that's a very logical possibility. We do get a lot of chlorosis in the metro. Usually it involves oaks, but if the shoe fits....I especially like the part about your neighbor. It sounds like he added sulpher to alter the PH, but if it helps than it may be a PH issue that is affecting the soil and its trapping the iron.

If the product you use doens't perk them up in a couple weeks, check out iron chelate. Tell anyone at a quality garden store than you need iron and they will help you out. You just mix it up and pour in the root zone of the tree. Your lawn will green up like crazy too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a guess and yes we have a river birch that's 15 - 20 years old, but it could be based on what you've described, birch leafminer. We've had some issues occasionally over the years with it. This is Jeff Hahn's latest info sheet on the pest from the U:

http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/horticulture/DG6134.html

Our river birch has iron chlorosis big time this year. Soil pH's around the TC area vary but they tend to be more acidic than here. And, our subsoils tend to be more alkaline the deeper one goes in the profile. This is typical in MN especially as one moves further west. I also suspect as we've found with iron chlorosis in soybeans that there is a nitrate nitrogen component to the equation as with warm springs, we tend to get more mineralization of nitrate N from the soil organic matter. The rains in June have moved that high concentration of nitrate into the root zone in the soybean fields. It inhibits the conversion of iron to the preferable form (ferric or ferrous I can't recall this time of nite without looking it up). I have no reason to believe the same wouldn't be true under a susceptible tree, judging by the rate of growth of the grass without supplemental N. The wilting as Steve said does not appear to fit with the iron chlorosis possibility. Good luck trying the fertilizer approach though. Hope it works for you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If it is iron chlorosis, it takes a long-term effort to amend the soil enough to keep pH lower. You're essentially trying to create an island of lower pH in the middle of a sea of higher pH, and you'll be fighting the water table, which has a large impact on local pH.

Adding iron supplement is a very effective solution, but may be a temporary solution. The larger and older the trees get, the more costly and time consuming it is to maintain their health by amending soil characteristics or adding supplements. I once treated a mature maple out in central N.D. for IC using both methods mentioned, and it cost the homeowner hundreds of dollars to get the tree looking healthy, and it did not last. His wallet ran out. I suggested such would be the case, but he went ahead anyway because he had a lifelong and strong emotional attachment to the tree.

If, and again that's an if, your soil's pH is too high for the river birches, it's much more sensible (you'll be money and time ahead) to pull them (or resell them to someone to move, since they're barely established, and bring in trees more suited to the soil.

But that's still speculation at this point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Your Responses - Share & Have Fun :)

    • A group of us are planning on getting together on Lake Osakis for the day on 8/18/18 for a day of fishing and a midday picnic at the Battle Point Park.  We would enjoy connecting with some fellow anglers from the site to connect and have some fun.  Osakis is a great lake for big gills, slab crappies, nice walleye, pike, smallmouth and largemouth bass.  The best walleye bite has been during low light periods.  Sunfish and crappie bite all day.  We plan on taking a break around noon at the Battle Point Park for lunch.  Right now tentatively looking to connect around 8-9 at the access.  Otherwise look for a red and white Warrior and connect with me, "Borch" on the water I'd you'd like.   I might even have a fishing report really fresh fishing report for you. 
    • It was slow for us this year, steelhead on Sunday afternoon, and only a couple nice kings on Monday. But the potential for a big fish is there again this year.   My friend is a little on the small side, always makes nice fish look HUGE.   My early morning fish came in at 23.6 lbs. A pound and a half heavier than the top pic.      
    • Nice work, that looks incredible. And I'm a big fan of the grey motif.   Thanks for the show and write up.
    • Yeah we brought it up to our cabin and sleep in it if there are a bunch of people up there. Thanks!
    • Are you guys using it as a summer camper as well?  Super Product right there!  😎
    • Thanks! It weighed in over what I thought which was disappointing. It was right around 7000 lbs with full propane tanks and some other stuff in it. We actually weighed it just after getting spray foamed and it was already at like 5000 lbs I’m not sure how others that did the same style steel stud house have a finished weight around 5500 lbs.    The cost in materials was above 20K but below 25 still too scared to finish adding the receipts. We really tried to use the best materials we could find and not cut any corners. When I was pricing stuff out before we started my ballpark was 19K but I forgot to add a tv screws wire and little stuff like that.    Yeah it took a lot of time but I enjoyed it for the most part. I’m actually getting kind of bored now and don’t know what to do with all the free time. 
    • Thanks for taking the time to do a write up and post all the pics! That alone is a big undertaking in itself. Nice work.   any idea what finished weight is for the entire house?    And just a ballpark figure are you willing to share what it costs in material to build something like this?   I can’t imagine how many hours of your own labor you got into this build. I think it turned out amazing.
    • Alright here’s the finished product. I think it turned out pretty nice. Still need a stove/ range but working on it.    Underneath the lift bed there are 7 lights and two speakers. There are 4 lights above the lift bed. The 3 middle lights underneath are on one button the outer 4 are on a different button and above are on a separate button.  55” smart tv recessed into to wall. The speakers really kick out some sound in this thing though. The tv sound comes out of the 5 speakers in the house which are all ran through the stereo and an amp.      Hole lights  Single light above the stove area  This door is for the satellite receiver. The black center piece is tinted acrylic so you can still use the remote with the door shut. The hole just below the tv is also so you can use the tv remote.  Battery monitor  Supply and return water temperatures for the in floor heat. I was actually really surprised I got my 20 degree delta t I calculated for.  Lights above lift bed. Lift bed in lowest position. Could go lower but that’s just where we put the lowest at.  Different height if people are sleeping below.  Folding table.  These are the cabinets inside the bathroom wall. These are only about 9” deep but I think they will be deep enough for a little more storage. The converter is in here as well it is just above the wiring panel. And the large center square is a false front so you can access the tv wires. I think we are going to go with the dry flush toilet. I put a little 12 v outlet in there so it can br ran off the house batteries.     The only other thing I did that i don’t know if others have done is I wired the rear porch light to the reverse wire of the trailer plug. So when you put the truck in revers that porch light comes on and lights everything up.    I think that’s everything. Feel free to ask any questions if you have any. And thanks again to lipripper and others for posting their builds the information was a ton of help and sorry if I copied too much of your design. 
    • Next we made the back benches that our couches sit on. These things are very comfortable. The couches are the same ones they use in the firebrand fish houses. Matt from fish n style ordered them for us.     Both fold out to be beds. We also bought a 4” thick piece of foam that can go over the whole thing to make one bed when it’s used for camping.  Under each couch we made drawers. I figured it would be a pain to have to lay on the ground and open some doors to get something. They actually can hold a ton of stuff.  Both rear couches have the drawers.      Next we started working on our cabinets above the wheel wells. The two inside openings have doors and the outer two are soft close drawers.      We then made some countertops. They were actually really easy to make.    For our our upper bunk in the back we wanted it to be a lift bed. We did similar to what lip ripper did without the strut trolly things. We used some plastic that just keeps the bed within the strut. For our unistrut we found some super light aluminum strut that worked great. We are going to make a black cover to go over the foam.   inside the bed looks like this.      We have two motors inside the bed. One motor runs one side and the other runs the other. So basically the motor is in the middle and two cables come off of the wheel going opposite directions. Each cable goes around a pulley so now they are both heading for the wall. Once they get to the edge of the bed there is another pulley that directs the cable up towards the ceiling. On top of the strut we have a bolt that the cable is connected to. Each side does this. And the motors are wired together and are ran by a switch. We have holes drilled at different heights on the strut for pins to go through and the bed then rests on the pins. The motors were kind of pulling the bed up at different speeds so we contacted the motor company and they said thar getting two motors to go exactly the same speed without spending a ton of money is very hard to do. So we are going to try and either find one motor to somehow control all four sides or somehow connect the two motors with a shaft. But it does go up and down just one side ends up being about an inch higher once you get to the top.    Next up finished pictures.             
    • The house is done I’m just slowly putting pictures up and describing it.    Next thing we did was have it spray foamed. Which was a nightmare we went with the cheaper guy which was a mistake. I would not recommend American Spray foam which is who we used. After it was spray foamed we started the in floor heat similar to liprippers 2017 build. We put down 2 layers of 3/4” 250 pink foam board. In the top layer we used a router to make a groove where we wanted our pex to go worked out pretty slick. Next we put down as many heat transfer plates as we could. We used these little pex clips that got screwed into the plywood to hold the pex down around bends and a few straight places. Next we Pushed the pex into the heat transfer plates and the clips. We did ours with one zone that was around 120’ of pex.  I took a bunch of pictures of where all the pex ran with the tape measure showing how far away each line was from walls and stuff so We didn’t screw into it accidentally      We then put a layer of aluminum over all the pex.      We then stained all our pine tongue and groove. We used Jacobean then went over it with grey for a little different look. I think it turned out pretty good. For the trim pieces and cabinets we used special walnut. After the pine was stained we started nailing it to the furring strips.  For the window casings we used cedar in case there was any condensation. For the window trim we used pine. Once we got to this point I was a little nervous thinking our stain looked like something you’d see in your grandparents house but we kept going.  All these wires are for the lights and speakers we put in the lift bed.  We kind of installed lights and other things as we went.  Soms of the tongue and groove pine looked really cool and unique when we were staining and we set those aside and used them on the front wall. We thought about doing some fake stone looking stuff  but we were feeling the time crunch.  Next we started making some upper cabinets and finishing the window casings and trim. We’ve never done any of this so we were just kind of learning as we went.      Once we got the upper cabinets made we screwed them in place.    next we put up the backer for the tv. We used 3/4” pine I think they were 10” wide. Wasn’t exactly sure which tv we were getting and they all vary a bit in size so we stained it in case you could see behind it. Oh I forgot we also put the rubber coin floor down. We purchased it from garage floor LLC. The first roll they sent took like a month to get and it was the wrong floor but after I told them I needed the right floor right away they had the new roll on the doorstep the next day which was surprising. The floor got screwed down under cabinets and where the hole covers went. But by the time we got to the floor it was cold already and new we would have to figure something out in the summer when it got hot and expanded. So this summer when it was good and hot we pulled the edges of the floor tight and used some left over VHB tape which actually worked to keep it tight.  After the floor was done we started piping the in floor heat. We accidentally broke the  insulation around the water heater which is why it’s taped. We put some unions off of the pump in case it fails. We use the furnace to get the house up to temp while the floor is heating up but once everything is up and running the furnace never kicks on. I was trying to figure out how I wanted to control the system and was trying to ask lipripper questions but he has a patent on his so he couldn’t really answer.  What I ended up doing was running 5v from the arduino board to the thermostat. I then ran a wire from the thermostat to my relay board. The relay board I am using  closes the circuit when it gets 5 volts. So when the thermostat calls for heat 5 volts is allowed to pass through the thermostat back to the relay board closing the circuit that I have wired to the hydronic pump. You could use any relay for this just have to pick the voltages that you have available in your fish house. So I’m not really sure how lipripper did his but that is how I did mine and it works.  The whole in floor heat system fits under the front couch. I call this the mechanical room since all the moving parts are under this couch. We have the hydronic system, the hydraulic pump to raise and lower the fish house and our batteries. Only have the one battery in this picture but we have one battery for our hydraulics and two 6v gold cart batteries wires in series for everything else. The two 6v batteries are charged by the converter and the single battery is charged by a one bank minnkota  on board charger.     
×