Prescribed burn and pheasant nest

[CodyDawg]

Well they did a prescribed burn on one of the properties I hunt yesterday and I feel it will help bring back the dense native prairie grasses. It wasnt too bad last year but had deteriorated from previous years. It will be fun to monitor it. I stopped by for awhile and watched and boy, did they do a good job. It sure changes the landscape! They did burn one nest with 14 eggs in it though. that sucks, but she will renest. First nest they have seen this year. Kinda early I thought too.

[BobT]

Funny story about DNR prescribed burns. Ever notice how every year the DNR issues a ban on burning and then they begin burning the WMAs? My wife happened to ask one of them about that once when they came in to her bar for lunch. His reply was, "Well, we know how to burn." She thought that was pretty arrogant on his part but my wife got the last laugh. You see, she was also aware of an incident when the DNR was doing one of these prescribed burns and inadvertantly caught one of their trucks on fire, totally destroying it and forcing them to call for a ride. Talk about putting one's foot in one's mouth.

[kobear]

They did a burn next to my land last year. Not DNR a private company, perscribed burns are often allowed to go ahead during open burning bans, it's the pre planning and strict weather conditions that give some reassurance of control, some. I was amazed at the deer usage, when that grass came back shoulder high the deer usage sky rocketed. They loved it for warm weather bedding areas. We've got a rooster every 1/8th of a mile this spring again so it didn't seem to negatively impact our local population.

[LandDr]

Private companies and government organizations are give a "variance" to conduct prescribed fire. Everyone still needs to get a burn permit no matter what, but "running fire" (grass and woodlands) is different than "piled fire" (pile of leaves or sticks). There is always a burn ban on running fire and therefore always requires a burn plan submitted to the DNR forestry office for review and consideration of the variance. Last year we completed 54 prescribed burns without incident in Minnesota and all of these burns required a burn plan and variance burn permit.

Can a landowner get a variance? Yes...but they must complete a burn plan and submit it to the forestry office for review and approval. BobT...you can give that information to your wife so she can educate the DNR guys next time.

However, we prefer landowners NOT to do any "wild lands" burns. Usually there are tremendous fuel loads and you better know what you are getting into before you light that match. Even with our extensive equipment and trained/experienced staff, there are always times when it gets hairy. If you don't know what to do and have the right equipment along, then an escape is almost likely. When there are escapes in the state and resources get stressed, then the State can even shut us down. We had that happen for one day this year. So even with a variance, we can still be shut down as well.

Yesterday winds got over 20 mph with gusts over 30 mph...so we got shut down in Stevens county until the winds come back down.

Fire is a VERY important management tool but fire is also VERY VERY powerful and sometimes think it has a life and hunger of its own. If the wind cooperates and the fuel is managable, it can be a friend and a pleasant experience. But if the wind changes and your back fires become head fires, then you have a totally different animal you are dealing with...and sometimes it can a challenge and an bad experience. I would recommend that you hire someone if you are thinking about a burn. There are a few programs out there that will also provide cost share for burning.

The destruction of a burn can be disappointing with the loss of nests and some critters that get caught in the fire...we saved a bunch of rabbits on one fire this year and bottle fed them, they are ready to be released now and my kids are really having a fit about that. We have carried fawns out as well...two twins last year started crying so we went in after them and carried them out. If we see a hen flush, we try to find eggs if we can and then give them to a friend of my that incubates them out...but sometimes it is too late and they are hardboiled. Hens are relentless renesters though and will renest up to 4 to 5 times. Studies have shown the first nest is often the worste nest anyway and the 2nd and 3rd are the best as far as a managable number of eggs, little bigger in size and healthier. The 4th and 5th nests each get a little less eggs in number and a little less in size...still good nests though. That is why you often see earlier chicks and later chicks...it is not a "second hatch" but rather a sign of hens that have continued to renest until they had a successful hatch. Hens will not nest twice according to research.

Great topic...thanks for posting it!

Land Dr

[BobT]

Good information and much less arrogant than the response my wife got.

Thank you.

[LandDr]

Thank you...that is the difference between private (we want to retain customers and get new ones) versus government (they will retain their job no matter what).

I have proposed there should be a response card in every government office that allows the customer to respond on service, information and performance received...much like the response card on the tables at Perkins. Then government staff that do a great job will be promoted, while the ones that don't will get demoted or replaced...performance and results orientated.

Probably not going to happen in this administration however.

[CodyDawg]

I really learned a lot about how they go about it. and I would echo Landdr's comments about hiring someone to do it unless you have been trained and have the equipment. This was a private company that did the burn and they made it look easy. they told us why there were doing stuff and they really had a good pland and had thought out the contingencies. but I could see that it could get out of hand very easily if you didnt know what you were doing. They were all business when doing the back burn.

It was also interesting to see how things burned. Switchgrass burned hot and fast. Brome, not so much. Sweet clover stalks hardly at all. Cattails hot and fast as you would think. The thing that amazed me was how precise they were. If I gave you a tractor and plow, you couldnt have been more precise than they were, prolly less so.

[LandDr]

The back burn is the most important part and to keep it controlled. I rarely let anyone else have the drip torch and it is very importat to know how much to light to keep the crew moving along. Your ears and eyes are always scanning around you for "sneaker" and "jumpers" as well as where flying embers go. It is always amazing how you can look behind you 20 ft. and an ember started a little fire that if you didn't catch would become a very large problem.

Fuel has different BTUs in it...energy. Many of the introduced grasses are very poor fuel...most of the native grasses are very high in fuel (Switchgrass, Big Bluestem, Indian, etc.), that is why they are studying native grasses as biofuels. Cattails not only have a lot of fuel in them, but they also have a slight oil and why you get a big black cloud out of it much like burning tires. Cattails also have the ability to "walk" as we call it...the flames will walk across the top of the cattails allowing it to spread quickly and well as "jump" VERY easily. On a site yesterday we had 4 different interfaces where we needed to seperate cattails...I took my sweet time making sure we didn't have any jumpers.

I have had some of the fire department guys out occassionally just as part time help...they are always disappointed on how controlled and boring the fire it! I think they expected to come out and really "fight fire". We prefere "controlled burn" rather than having to fight the fire.

Land Dr

[lawdog]

Landdr, I have some burning questions for you. Can you email me?

[email protected]

THANKS!

[Riverratpete]

Wow, thanks for the info, really learned alot.

[muc33]

great info!

[LandDr]

Not sure where the post was or where it went regarding "why burning at this time of the year..." since pheasants and turkeys are nesting and potentially hatching.

Due to the cold temps, most likely pheasants and turkeys are still sitting on nests and still getting ready to nest. We have flushed some hens from the grass but have yet to find a nest. Most likely there could be a nest but we have yet to find any when we look for them. We had some nice warm weather to start with but since it has been down right chilly.

However, there is always a potential for loss of animal life when we do a burn. As mentioned, we really try to keep our eyes open and we save any wilflife we see if we can. But the down side of "not burning" is that the thick native grass cover will begin to pile up and create an "insullation" over the ground. This insullation will keep the ground cold longer which will promote germination and growth of cool season introduced grasses such as brome, quack, orchard, etc. and several broadleaf weeds including thistles. Without fire, these weeds and less beneficial plants will take over...resulting in very very poor cover and very poor nesting and brooding habitat. Also, in time, natural succession is for trees to take over. Without fire, everything will revert to trees and then there will be no nesting or brooding cover.

So we need to give up one year of cover and nesting/brooding habitat...and the chance of loss of life and/or destruction of a nest or two...to have much greater cover for the next 5 or 6 years until another burn is needed. It is a necessary management tool for the betterment of several years of beneficial cover. DNR has shown that nest counts in old grass stands goes down dramatically with increased "thatch". Versus, the years immediately after a burn, nest counts are substantially higher and actually much higher than average. The one year loss actually quickly makes up for it with increased success rates. In addition, if you ever have the chance to see what the native grass stand looks like the following fall after a burn...it is truely amazing how tall and thick it is. It makes for much better winter cover which will also get more hens through the winter..."dead hens don't lay eggs"...we have to get the hen through the winter or else all that nesting/brooding cover will not have nests in it anyways.

We also try to burn only part of the area to leave the other area as excape cover and nesting/brooding. Sometimes this is planned on the same property or with adjacent properties.

We also need to burn "later" to encourage the "warm season" native grasses. Earlier burns promote flowers, which is good for attracting bugs for brooding cover...but one flower that is REALLY stimulated is the thistle. For that reason alone I do not do much early burning...my customers do not like that they have to mow all those thistles or have to hire someone to do the mowing. With that, we always try to wait until we know the soil temps are going to be at 60F or greater for most of the days...that will stimulate flowers as well but really stimulates the native grasses. At the same time, time was allowed to let the undesirable cool season introduced weeds, including thistles, to use a lot of their energy sending up leaves and rosettes. The fire then burns this green up off, setting the weeds back and stimulating the warm season native grasses.

I hope this helps understand the pros and cons and the need for prescribed burning...even at this time of the year. It is a battle of the root systems going on down there and we are trying to give every chance and opportunity to the native plants versus the weeds and less desired plants.

Land Dr

[BLACKJACK]

I've done some controlled burns and it’s amazing the difference before and after the burn. One year we split a field in the middle, burnt half and left half and the burnt half was two foot taller that fall.

I've also burnt up a few duck nests, but justify it because of the long-term benefit to the cover.

The hard part of a burn is the back burn but the fun part of the burn is lighting it up on the windward side and watching it go, especially if you're burning a good stand of switch grass/big blue stem with a lot of fuel. Totally awesome and even scary!! I always tell my helpers to stay on the black side of the fire, no cutting across the grass to be burnt, in case the wind changes!!

It is HARD to keep the invasive ash and box elders out, even with a burn those finger sized sprouts grow back from the roots. And with the wildflower component of most native prairie mixes, spraying is out.