PLEASE HELP

[Guest]

In an attempt to restore a lake which was, for the past 30 years, considered the most polluted lake in North America, to what it was before industry destroyed it, we are looking to fishermen / women across the country to help us out in bringing this lake back to it's original beauty and it's ability to hold abundant populations of trophy fish.
With the influx of the zebra mussel in the early 90's, this lake has been getting cleaner and cleaner by the year and has come around to the point where our New York State Department of Environmental Conservation and the Food and Drug administration have lifted the fish consumption ban that had been in effect since the early 70's.
Over the past 5 years, Onondaga Lake in Central New York has become one of the best trophy fisheries for Smallmouth Bass in the northeast right behind Lake Erie. The Walleyes and Panfish populations are also striving and the fish are absolutely huge but there lies a problem beneath the surface of this lake. There is absolutely no cover or structure on the lakes bottom other than colonies of zebra mussels and the fish that are now living in the lake are not having any luck in reproducing as their fry are being eaten up by the huge schools of Gizzard shad that also roam the lake.
This is one of the reasons that we have so many huge fish and not many young fish. The cycle of the Gizzard Shad eating the eggs and fry of the game fish and the game fish eating the Gizzard Shad is not helping the lake to produce many game fish fry that are living past a few months old.
With some gentle urging of the local politicians to help us with a project to build reefs and to submerge other forms of structure to help protect the fry and juvenile fish, they met us with a counter offer that they would match anything that we could come up with in the form of backing to get this project off the ground.
We then contacted several fishing tackle manufacturers, marketing and Rep groups to see what we could come up with.
Berkely was the only company that was interested in our project and jumped at the opportunity to help us in our effort to restore this lake.
What they offered was a deal that's a win, win situation for us.
For every 75 UPC labels (bar codes) from Berkely fishing line boxes or spools that we turn in to them, they will donate one of their custom fish box structures to put at the bottom of the lake. It's a deal that sounds too good to be true but they're for real and looking forward to helping us out so what I'm asking for, is, if any of you who might have your old Berkely fishing line boxes or spools lying round the garage or boat, to cut out the UPC label and mail it to us to help with our project.
Your help will be greatly appreciated.
I will keep track of how many UPC labels each of you send and the person who sends us the most labels by December 1st 2002 will be rewarded with a gift of your choice consisting of either an assortment of open water tackle or a great selection of Ice jigs. I'm working on getting a few more tackle donations to give away with the above mentioned gifts.

Please send your UPC labels to.....

TONY ON ICE
328 Glendale Ave
Liverpool, N.Y. 13088

Thank you for your help and support.

Thanks Rick for suggesting that I post this here.

[Surface Tension]

Ah yes zebar musles.
The gizard shad will boom for a short time till there feed gives out. Then you will see native populations of game fish come back. This is a cycle that must play out. When it does happen the surplus of shad will excelerate the boom for game fish.

[Jig stick]

Tony on ice, OUTSTANDING!!

[Guest]

We catch perch in Erie with their bellies crammed full of zebras.

[Guest]

In their quest for stardom, all the biologists and scientists who swore up and down that the zebra mussels would decimate every body of water that they would inhabit, were about as accurate as all of these so called professional profilers who were so dead wrong about that scum bag convict that shot up the Washington DC area this month.
Now they're doing a 180 and saying they never meant what they said in the beginning and were just speaking of the water supplies and not the fish.

[Guest]

BRAVO TONY, BRAVO!!!!!!
I'm in.
Also, I work for a precast concrete company, and one of our sister companies in South Carolina recently donated a couple of truckloads of broken or cast-off precast concrete sewer pipe for a similiar project. Try contacting some of your local precasters to see if they are willing to do the same. The site was a river, and the pipe were deposited with a crane-barge. Precast pipe is designed for H2O submersion, and makes great reefs. Our parent company is Hanson Building Materials Of America, and the home office in Dallas, TX can be reached via the web - word search "hanson concrete products"
I wish you the best of luck in your noble endeavor, and I'll send you UPC's.

------------------
<)/////><{
RobertC

[Guest]

ROBERTC
Thanks for the suggestion on the pre cast pipe. We might be in good shape on a deal for leftover or old pipe as there's a new mall expansion project underway (groundbreaking was Friday) right on the east end of Onodaga Lake that when it's finished, will be remarkably, even bigger than the 'Mall of the Americas" in Minnesota.
This project is one of the reasons we need to get the lake in shape and to protect the fishery.
When they built the original mall on that spot, there was tons of leftover materials that went to the salvage yards for scrap or to be recycled.
Maybe we'll get lucky in the near future.
Right now we have Berkely on our side and all of you who are helping out by sending your UPC labels to us and that's not luck....It's dedication to a great cause..
Thanks again Robert !

[Guest]

This sounds like a good idea. I'll see what I can scrounge up in the garage.

Good Luck,
Rusty

[Guest]

THANK YOU RUSTY !
The UPC labels are coming in already and i can't thank you guys / gals enough.
When the time comes that we start setting up and sinking these fish houses that Berkely is donating, I'll try to get some pictures of the operation and post them here.
It's definitely a great project on a lake that was left for dead only 10 years ago.
God Bless those zebra mussels !

Thanks again Rusty !

[Guest]

Rusty, I certainly commend you for trying to make improvements to a situation that is in need of some type of help. But, before you pat yourself on the back too hard, you need to take a closer look at what you said about biologists "fears" about the zebra mussel. Isn't the reason you have to add shelters to Onondaga is because of water clearity caused by the mussels? That is one thing biologists were talking about when they said fishing could be impacted to a great degree by increased water clarity. Its easy: No zooplankton-No food for fry and fingerlings-No little fish-No big fish, no matter how much bottom structure there is in a lake. Also, ultra clear water means no place to hide for "baby fish", thats why other bigger fish munch them to oblivian. It doesn't matter if you stock or allow natural reproduction, clear water is bad new for baby fish! Baby fish don't hang around bottom "structure" like mature fish. They must be on the move nearly constantly looking for some type of cover and food, ofter supplied by what many consider "dirty" water. Yes zebra mussels have helped "purify" the water of chemicals and other toxins. These toxins are now in the bottom of the lake in the dead mussels.

Just ask any biologist on lake erie how water clarity has effected the survival of young walleye and perch.

We used to catch all the walleye we wanted when the water was a little dirty in 10-20 feet of water. Now the lake clears so fast you better be out in 30-50 most of the time of stay home.

Again, I certainly would help in your efforts to restore Onondaga, and doing something is better than nothing, but it is more complex than you might think.

[Guest]

TONY ON ICE

I commend you on your efforts to revive your lake, but I think this plan benefits Berkley more than your lake (great advertising). I was wondering if you've tried:

1.) Working with local lake association and state officals to have structure dumped into the lake (Like Robert C. suggested)?

2.) Spoken to local bait shops, sporting goods stores, businesses to organize a raffle, tournament or other fundraiser to raise additional funds for your cause?

3.) Spoken to local officals/lake association about making your own cribs, brushpiles etc. (could be done at little or no cost - other than time).

4.) Working with lake association, local officials and home owners to promote/re-establish native weed growth around lake shore and in the lake itself (provides best, cheapest structure)?

Just some ideas I had. Best of luck.

[Guest]

Southerntierfisher,

You have me confused... I'm just sending in some of my old UPC's. I have nothing to do with setting up this program. I too don't neccessarily think zebra mussel's are a "good" thing.

MILF:

The plan may also benefit Berkley by way of advertising, but they are doing something to help preserve the heritage that we all love so much. Just because they are a big company doesn't mean that they are in it for the wrong reasons. Local companies would also benefit from participating, and there's nothing stopping them. I commend Berkley for taking an active role.

Good Luck,
Rusty

[Guest]

RUSTY
Again, thanks for seeing things the way they really are. Some people will never get it.

SOUTHERTIERFISHERMAN
You need to do your homework on Onondaga Lake before making comments like that.
Onondaga was decimated by 50 years of Allied Chemical using it for a dump and sending millions of gallons of toxins into the lake. That is what destroyed everything in the lake and made it the most polluted lake in North America.
When Allied moved out and the dumping stopped the lake was as thick with sludge and slime as on old V-8 engine.
The influx of zebra mussels started to clean the lake and over the pas 10 or so years, it has become so clear that you can see the bottom in 25 ft of water on calm days. With the new clarity in the ake, weed growth suddenly returned but because the lake is fairly shallow and flat bottomed, the sludge from the chemicl company had settles to the bottom and made it even flatter as it covered up and filled in ay structure that might have been there.
The need for these fish boxes is urgent.
What goes on in Lake Erie or any other lake is a totally different situation.

MILF
You just about repeated yourself in every question.
Local bait shops (what's left of them) have no interest and have been contacted and asked for help.
Many Lake organizations are behind this program along with fishing clubs and sportsmans clubs around the state.
Even the politicians are helping out.
[deleted]

[This message has been edited by Rick (edited 10-31-2002).]

[Guest]

MILF
Who has a problem with a company benefitting from a project as important as this ? I'd say that 99 % of the UPC labels that come in are from old boxes or spools of line, product that was bought before anyone knew that Berkely was even involved with this project.
Give Berkely the credit they deserve. No other companies offered anything.

[rufishin]

TONY ON ICE,
what's with the Porno cut on MILF? You also seem to take a shot at southerntier as well.

I commend what you're doing here with helping a lake out, but there's no need for name calling just because people have a differant point of view than you.

[Guest]

Tony On Ice

No need for taking shots at people. I simply shared some ideas that popped into my head when I read your post. There is nothing wrong with Berkely benefitting from your project. I did a search of your lake in NY and read a little about it. It is noted as the "dirtiest lake in the U.S." and I read swimming has been banned since the 1940's. The cleanup efforts appear to be well organized and funded due to a Federal Court order. I read nothing about the need for additional structure, and in fact most sites allude to it as a productive fishery. Best of luck with your Berkly promotion. Let us know how those walleye taste!

[Guest]

Lets see, How do you know I haven't done my homework? I know Onondaga lake pretty well, and it's turn around.

I have no problem adding structure to the lake, any lake for that matter, but your second post about biologists being wrong about the impact of zebra mussels is totally inane. You said it yourself, the water in Onondaga is too clear, the fry and fingerlings are getting decimated because they have nowhere to hide, let alone something to eat(zooplankton). Repeat...stucture alone will not ensure the survival of young fish, they must have something to eat, and the zebras are "filtering" that right out to the water. What does Lake Erie (and hundreds of other lakes) have in common with Onondaga?
1. Zebra mussels
2. Clear water (remember how lake erie used to catch on fire!)
3. Poor recuitement of juvinile fish because of preditation and dwindling food supplies.
(And heres one that will really freak you out)
4. Excessive weed growth due to clear water.
Remember, weeds die, dying weeds take up oxygen, oxygen fish and other aquatic critters need to live. What else happens to dead weeds??? They become silt, that over time, fills in pockets in rock piles, etc, thereby slowly loosing one type of structure.

Before you tell someone they need to "educate" themselves, you better educate yourself.

It sounds to me like you will have some good fishing when the artifical structure is placed in the lake, especially if you know where most of it is. The "trophy" fish will definately be drawn to it, and you'll have a bunch of your own little honey holes.

[Guest]

FISHIN
I just asked MILF a question about his screen name.
He hasn't aswered so I must be right.
I'd post what MILF stands for but t's too derogatory.

If either of those guys THOROUGLY read my posts, their replys wouldn't be so far off but they didn't read them THOROUGHLY and they're replies are senseless. Matter of fact. it's pretty sensleess to post a negative reply about a program that's geared towards helping a fishery in need.

[Rick]

Please keep this civil.

[Guest]

Unfortunately,

I did read your posts. You are practically promoting zebra mussells which is irresponsible. These are harmful exotic species and their long term effects remain to be seen. Anyone can do a "search" on your lake and come to their own conclusion. Everything I read notes the issue as pollution, not lack of structure. Your project is misguided which might explain why none of your local businesses or baitshops wanted to work with you (as you've mentioned). Your project will not accomplish anything other than to give you a few personal honeyholes as mentioned by Southerntierfisherman. If anyone is interested in helping that lake I would urge them to read up on the many different clean up projects currently going on. Unless you wish to be known as "[deleted]", do not promote the spread of harmful exotic aquatic species on a MN forum. MILF (short for Euarasian water MILFoil - a dirty word in MN).

[This message has been edited by Rick (edited 10-31-2002).]

[fiskyknut]

Short for Milfoil....right! Anyways why do you have such a woodrow for Tony? Appears to me he's just trying to do some good to a watershed in his local area. We here at FM.com try not to get to personal, so try and take it a little easier on one another. Perhaps Tony will give you the #'s to these boxes placed in the lake down the road, then you guys can meet up and fish!!!

Best regards....Fisky

[rufishin]

Fisky,
I can't speak for MILF (although I suspect Tony linking his username with Porn wasn't helpful). Being way off base on the greatness and selflessness of his cause may have an effect as well.

I can speak for my self about the woodrow. In Tony we have a self proclaimed fishing expert who accuses others of being that way. He's [deleted] and intolerant of differing opinions as well (while he pawns his opinions off as fact).

He sees everyone else as responsible for any conflict with him. He would do best to look very closely at himself. I agree that I need to look closely at myself and need to look at Tony as the lovable [person] that he probably really is. fiskynut I know that he has befriended you and I'm happy for you. My bet is that he's a very nice caring person. Have fun with him this winter.

[Last Warning Guys-Keep it civil]

[This message has been edited by Rick (edited 10-31-2002).]

[Guest]

Fiskyknut,

You are right. I reread this thread and I will back off. I guess I took offense when he took a shot at me(which I see has now been deleted by the administrator) after my orignial post. When I first read this, I thought it was about simply adding structure to improve his his local lake and offered some ideas (which he attacked). After searching some websites on this subject, I realize now this is huge Court ordered clean up involving numerous organizations and agencies. If he simply wants to add some good fishing spots to his lake, I have no problem with it. I'm reluctant to offer anymore ideas, but I can't look past the obvious i.e. collecting disgarded X-mas trees this winter and tie together with cement blocks. Place strategically on ice and wait for spring (permission will be needed from your area Fish & Wildlife Div.). You can create as many brushpile/cribs as you want that way and it won't really cost anyone a thing. Best of Luck.

[Jim W]

Hey all, keep in mind when registering the forum policy's!!!!!!

I personally won't hesitate in Zapping personal attacks. NO room here for that dump!!! Back to the more important things in life....FISHING!!!!

Keep the rods bendin'!!!!

Jim W

[Guest]

MILF..... just so you know for future reference.... while you may not have intended your name to represent a sexual meaning.... it does. It's an acronym for something that I can't say here. Just FYI.

Good Luck,
Rusty