tomato questions

[luckycrank]

I started seeds in a comercially available jiffy green house seed started kit.

I have slicer tomatos , roma tomatos . cherry tomatos, cucumbers, scallions

and a variety of peppers(I know.. I know.. its hard to tell what my plan is here!

Each plant is in its own pellet which expanded to about 1.5 inches by 1.5 inches. how long will they grow before I have to transplant them either in bigger pots or outdoors.

seems there proccess has slowed a bit in the last few days.

the cucumbers grew about 4 inches in 1 week and have quite growing it seems

all my tomatoes are all about 2.5 inches tall

Some pellets have multiple sprouts ,can they be broken up or is it best to leave them alone or clip the smallest sprout.

any first time tips or suggestions

I recently purchased some 1 cup sized peat pots and miracle grow potting soil for this operation. I did not buy any type of fertilizer or miracle grow food I am waiting to hear some reponse from this post before doing so

thanks in advance for your input

[KEN W]

Not sure where you live in MN....I live just outside of Fargo.This is to early to start cucumber plants.Once they get larger than 2 true leaves they don't like to get transplanted.I usually start them the first of May and put them out the first of June.

Every thing else you have listed is OK to go now.1 1/2 inch peat pellets won't be large enough for your tomatoes or peppers.They will have to be transplanted into at least 4-5 inch pots in a couple weeks.For tomatoes.....pick off all the leaves up to the top 2 and bury the stem each time you transplant.For peppers.....transplant at the same depth as they are now.They will be the last ones to germinate.

Scallions/green onions can be put into your garden at any time now.All onions are very hardy and even snow won't hurt them.Seperate the clump of plants into individual ones and plant them out.

[luckycrank]

Im in southern mn (rice county) as for the cucmbers live and learn I guess.

however they do have any true leaves yet. so maybe theres hope I did not realize they grow so fast!

thanks pat

[Nainoa]

Cucumbers are way too early... They are INCREDIBLY frost sensative. The slightest frost will nuke them dead... And they don't do well with transplanting if they are mature. So I don't even start my cucumbers until around Fishing Opener.

As for the tomatoes.

I grow about 300 heirloom tomato seedlings every year. My rule of thumb is that once they are 2 inches tall and have their first "True Leaves" then they get transplanted into a 3 inch pot.

(I actually make my own 4 X 4 X 2.5 inch pots out of paper mache lined with a sandwhich bag.)

Fertilizing should not be done until the plants are at least 4 inches tall.

With the MG soil (If it's the stuff that says "Feeds plants for up to 3 months") then you shouldn't need to fertilize them with a high nitrogen fertilizer until they hit the garden.

*With each transplanting plant them deeper... Up to the Cotyledon leaves the first time. Toms will send out roots from a juvenile stem.

The only time you should need to fertilize is if you see Purple color forming under the leaves. (Happens more frequently if you use grow lights like I do.)

If this happens it is a low phosphate problem... In which case go out and buy a plant food for "Blooming plants" Shultz has one that is

10 Nitrogen

54 Phosphate

10 Potash

OR

If you see Yellow forming on the leaves in between the veins, then it's a magnesium deficency, and you will want to take a little epsom salt mixed with warm water to fertilize them.

Otherwise, as long as you're using a quality potting soil (Which you are using the BEST IMO) they shouldn't need a nitrogen rich fertilizer until they are planted in the garden.

At that time what I do is put a good batch of fish mulch (That I ferment myself) or MG Tomato food, into a hole the night before I intend to plant.

Then I cover that fertilized spot with an inch or two of soil.

Then next day I plant them.

That way just as they hit that Juvenile growth spurt at the peak of June, the lower roots are tapping into that pocket of fertilizer.

Once they start bearing fruit, I stop all Nitrogen fertilizers, as N tends to make them grow leaves when you want them to be growing fruit.

[buddha]

I dropped in a few onion, radish and carrots yesterday! My toms are 3 to 4" tall and I am going to use Burpee's Wall O' Water. Last year my buddy used them and had his toms in the last week in April and didn't lose a one to frost. He was also 3 to 4 weeks ahead of anyone else in production and eating too! Don't be fooled by the "early" spring, but there are a few things that you can get in early and make them work. My garlic is also 3 to 4 inches tall already.

[Nainoa]

Oh yeah I planted my snap peas, romaine and Mesclun greens yesterday... French radishes and heriloom beets go in early next week.

I peronally wouldn't put a tomato in the ground before Mother's day.

Last year April skirted a lot of frosts... And then we got a small frost in Mid May. I covered my 48 plants with garbage bags and only really lost a couple of outter leaves.

Tomatoes originally hail from tropical origins (As do peppers and corn) and as such Frost kills them much faster than the hearty root vegetable and snow greens etc...

[Juneau4]

If you use the walls of water (which I have for the past 10 years) You can plant them whenever the temp probably won't get below 20. I usually do it about Apr. 15--Figure if I can survive tax day so will the tomatoes. The water may freeze on the outside edge,but no harm to tom. Usually take the walls off last week in May and have ripe toms by 4th of July. The earliest was June 25.

[croixflats]

Question. What temperature do we keep the seedlings at. Right know I have my plants under grow lights with an area walled off with plastic and a electric heater keeping it around 75 degrees. Would cooler temps promote more root growth and less stem and leaf growth.

I have the lights 2 inches from the plants so they dont have to reach for light hoping to promote stockier stems.Would the cooler temps also help in promoting stockier stems?

My toms are at 6 inches and I think their do for another transplant as they are getting close to a bit leggy.

[Nainoa]

Question. What temperature do we keep the seedlings at. Right know I have my plants under grow lights with an area walled off with plastic and a electric heater keeping it around 75 degrees. Would cooler temps promote more root growth and less stem and leaf growth.

I have the lights 2 inches from the plants so they dont have to reach for light hoping to promote stockier stems.Would the cooler temps also help in promoting stockier stems?

My toms are at 6 inches and I think their do for another transplant as they are getting close to a bit leggy.

When germinating and up until they get their true leaves you do indeed want a warm temp in the 70's. After germination you want something more in the 55 to 65 degree range for them.

Once they have a couple of true leaves I gentlybrush my hands over the tops of them a couple of times each day. (Maybe even turning to a low set fan when they're getting really huge.) The jostling and cooler temps will help them develop the kind of thicker stalks that will help them survive life in the great outdoors.

Also note that for a 2 week period before planting it's good to put them outside for the day (Or open all the windows in the green house) to temper them into the wilder swings of weather that they don't really see in the mitagated indoor environment.

Last year I planted my Toms and the next day a MASSIVE windstorm pummeled us... Plants held firm, not a single one lost!

[croixflats]

Thanks Nainoa!

I wish I would have done this years ago, starting from seed that is. Having lots of fun. Whats great is I have my mother helping me and I get to hear stories of when she was a child growing up on a farm near Sioux Falls S.D. and how she helped and did things back then.

Therapeutic I'd say, as she is handicapped through diabetes complications and we lost our Grandmother last fall and I think it helps her reminiscing the olden days.

A big thanks for your help!

[Nainoa]

Thanks Nainoa!

I wish I would have done this years ago, starting from seed that is. Having lots of fun. Whats great is I have my mother helping me and I get to hear stories of when she was a child growing up on a farm near Sioux Falls S.D. and how she helped and did things back then.

Therapeutic I'd say, as she is handicapped through diabetes complications and we lost our Grandmother last fall and I think it helps her reminiscing the olden days.

A big thanks for your help!

"The old Lakota was wise. He knew that man's heart away from nature becomes hard; he knew that lack of respect for growing, living things soon led to lack of respect for humans, too." -Luther Standing Bear

*****

Now the other big question is "Are you growing Hybrids or Heirloom/open pollenators?

When it comes to Toms (And most veggies) I only grow Heirlooms/open pollenators.

An Open Polenator allows you to save seeds from one generation to the next. Selecting the best plants each time. A hybrid is made by man and is ultimately a Mule... You can get about 20% of hybrid seeds to regerminate, but the off spring will be stunted and deformed.

Also Heirloom tends to be sweeter or more flavorful. (Some even smell slightly different.)

That's the ground level reason I go Heirloom over hybrid.

But it's also worth noting that on an agricultural level, we are with a lot of species, on the verge of another "Irish potato famine."

A century ago we had thousands of tomato cultivars, Now it's hundreds...

A century ago we had Scores of Broccoli cultivars, now it's ONE.

All of this hydridization of crops creates a genetic similarity not that dissimilar to cloning. Where in they are all so genetically alike that they share the same weaknesses... So when one hybrid plant, gets something... Like oh say... Salmonella! It spreads like wild fire through the rest of the crop.

Since heirloom/open pollenator plants are more genetically diverse, they tend FAR LESS to suffer from these communal weaknesses.

Now VERY FEW heirlooms are market friendly... They have half the shelf life, and tend to handle mechanized picking and shipping VERY POORLY. Where as hybrids have been selected and manipulated to have strong shelf life and handling... with flavor as a secondary concern.

*****

This year I'm growing

San Marzano (Best sauce tomato in the world)

Purple Cherokee (Purple slicer)

Rosalita (Rare Prolific Grape tomato with white sparkles)

Black Cherry (Just like a Russian Black tomato but in the size of a cherry)

Brandywine (Most popular heirloom tomato

Moskovich (Which is basicall an Oxheart shaped Early Girl that produces Earlier than any other tom.)

[croixflats]

I went with a mix this year.

I stayed with the tried and true Heirlooms and my favorites

Brandywine

Mortgage Lifter

Polish linguisa

and added Black Krim, this a new one I'm trying.

The hybrid I'm tyring are for disease resistance and for earliness.

First Prise

Early Wonder

Bella Rosa

Legend

And one more

Striped Cavern for stuffing

The list you have looks great, next year I'll have to give some of those a try. So many varieties to choose from a guy has a hard time stopping at a set # of varieties.

Now I have to find a place to plant them. Looks like a maple tree is coming down, its just a silver maple planted to close to a Crimson so no big loss.

[luckycrank]

I have to agree it is a lot of fun , I am really green at it but its fun lots of great info from great folks, as I would expect none less from this wonderful sight !

[KEN W]

This year I am growing slicer hybrids....

Early Doll

Lemon Boy

Open polinated slicers....

Taxi

Beaver Lodge Slicer

Glacier

Legend

Open pollinated paste

Saucey

Beaver Lodge plum

I really like the open pollinated varieties developed at the U of Oregon.They really perform well in cool summers like last year.They were developed for that in the Pacific NW.

[Nainoa]

I went with a mix this year.

I stayed with the tried and true Heirlooms and my favorites

Brandywine

Mortgage Lifter

Polish linguisa

and added Black Krim, this a new one I'm trying.

The hybrid I'm tyring are for disease resistance and for earliness.

First Prise

Early Wonder

Bella Rosa

Legend

And one more

Striped Cavern for stuffing

The list you have looks great, next year I'll have to give some of those a try. So many varieties to choose from a guy has a hard time stopping at a set # of varieties.

Now I have to find a place to plant them. Looks like a maple tree is coming down, its just a silver maple planted to close to a Crimson so no big loss.

Ever hear the story of how the Mortgage Lifter was created?

*****

I grew Black Krim last year...

I personally didn't feel like it lived up to the Hype I'd been sold on. But my in laws were falling over themselves lauding praise on it.

The BK can be fickle.

I had one plant... I called him "The Freak" Grew fast, developed into a HUGE plant, made massive fruit.

But his fruit took so long to ripen it was crazy.

And all of my BK's were very crack sensative.

Once the BK starts fruiting, you'll want to stay on top of keeping it's soil moist. Because it seems as a species to react poorly to that quick transition from dry soil to wet.

[croixflats]

I learned about the history of the Mortgage lifter not to long a go.

Quite the interesting story of a fellow down on his luck. This guy had know experience at cross breading and this was his first try at cross breading 4 tomatoes and it was a success. The tail goes he paid his $6000 mortgage off in 2 years thus the name Mortgage Lifter.

I did not find out about the Black Krim problems until after I ordered them. Hopefully I can control the splitting by closely monitoring the water. I may plant them in the back yard for the morning and early afternoon sun to keep them away from the hot part of the day.

I sure have a lot of them, they sent me 45 seeds in a 30 sed pack.

[Nainoa]

I learned about the history of the Mortgage lifter not to long a go.

Quite the interesting story of a fellow down on his luck. This guy had know experience at cross breading and this was his first try at cross breading 4 tomatoes and it was a success. The tail goes he paid his $6000 mortgage off in 2 years thus the name Mortgage Lifter.

I did not find out about the Black Krim problems until after I ordered them. Hopefully I can control the splitting by closely monitoring the water. I may plant them in the back yard for the morning and early afternoon sun to keep them away from the hot part of the day.

I sure have a lot of them, they sent me 45 seeds in a 30 sed pack.

'

Yeah Black Tomatoes are sort of the New "In" thing in the Heriloom tomato world.

While they didn't jive my gibblets, Everyone else I gave plants to raved about how much they enjoyed them. But I think as long as you stay on top of a consistent watering you'll have better success.

I mean with most heirlooms you have a higher percentage of little problems like that. But in the end you get a better tasting tomato from something that is the product of Wind and Bees, than something that was bred in a seed company lab, by a student working his way through a bottany internship!