Track Froze/seized - Gear box problem??

[mrjigger]

Tonight I went for a quick ride with my son. About a mile from home I had to stop at a driveway. When I gave the sled gas to cross over the driveway it would not move. It was completely froze up. Finally, I pulled it back about 15ft hopped on and gave it he$% and it started moving. I kept on the gas all the way home and we got back.

We never go too far from home, but the last few times out it kind of felt like the track was slipping or sliding back and forth once in a while.

I checked and changed the gear case lube this fall, but I fear the gear box is siezed for some reason.

The sled does have reverse and it will go into reverse but won't move in reverse either.

Any idea what could be wrong? How hard will this be to fix on my own? Spendy????

Thanks.

[mudslinger]

Im no wiz or anything but my first thought is clutch issues BUT there are many many variables. The slipping part makes me think it is the belt. Is the sled kept outside? Have you greased everthing up well recently? Have you checked the track deflection? Is your belt worn beyond high hell? Is there a stick in your track? Give us more insight on your particular situation.

[mrjigger]

I am no wiz either, that is why it is hard for me to explain, but I will give it a shot.

I just bought the belt this past December and I have not ridden that much, so I don't think it is the belt.

I thought of something being caught in the track, but can't see anything.

When I say the track is slipping, I mean it feels like the back of the sled is fish tailing back and forth very slightly when just driving down a flat trail.

If it helps, last year I had a problem with my speedo not working. I did some reading up and discovered I could have a bad bearing or misaligned drive shaft. Although I read that the speedo key would be broken off if that were the case. My speedo key was just fine. So I replaced the Speedo cable and housing this past fall and that solved the speedo problem. But maybe I had more issues than I thought.

my hunch is the clutch as well. If it is the cluth, is this a hard job to fix?

[Surface Tension]

Could be a lot of things. Lets start with,

Not enough snow to lube and cool the hyfax.

Bad(enough to shift the track and bind it)drive shaft bearing or bad rear axle bearing.

Get the rear of the sled jacked up and start looking.

[mrjigger]

ok, I putzed a little on my sled tonight to try and figure out why the track won't spin. didn't have alot of time but discovered a few things.

Not sure if any of this helps, but here is what I found:

I am able to rotate the driven clutch with my hand clockwise fairly easily once I get it going. For the most part I can not rotate the clutch counterclockwise, I was able to rotate the clutch counterclockwise about one rotation when the clutch was at specific point in its rotation, but for the most part it would not budge counterclockwise.

When I rotate the clutch clockwise, ice shavings fall out from underneath where the track meets the drive sprockets. Which made me think there was a piece of ice up there, but I fired up the Mr. Heater and pointed it up under there for a few minutes, but it did not help. Maybe I didn't do it long enough though.

When I start the sled up and give it gas, the driven clutch does rock slightly counterclockwise and when in reverse it does the same clockwise. Also when I give it gas, the drive clutch spins normally, but the driven clutch won't spin to make the track move.

Does any of this help pinpoint what could be wrong?

If the issue was the clutch, would I beable to rotate the driven clutch?

thanks for any help you can provide.

[Macgyver55]

I've not seen ice that stopped a sled while moving in my 34+ years riding, but I suppose nothings impossible. This sounds like maybe a drive axle bearing going bad or possibly even a drive chain problem. I've seen broken tensioners do similar things. But, your description that it "felt like the track was slipping or sliding back and forth once in a while" makes me lean towards the drive axle bearing. Some other things to look at are.....

Does the track tension look normal when you suspend the track? Does it make any kind of noises when you do get the track to rotate? Have you adjusted the drive chain tension? How does the chain lube look? On a less likely note, how about the brakes? Check to make sure that a pad didnt separate from the shoe and is getting wedged in place and stopping you. (only seen this once).

Lastly, if possible, get it inside somewhere warm to melt off good so you can get a clear look at everything and a better idea of the problem.

[311Hemi]

For the most part I can not rotate the clutch counterclockwise, I was able to rotate the clutch counterclockwise about one rotation when the clutch was at specific point in its rotation, but for the most part it would not budge counterclockwise.

Also when I give it gas, the drive clutch spins normally, but the driven clutch won't spin to make the track move.

Doesn't sound like a clutch issue to me. The clutch should not stop you from rotating the track when turning the driven clutch. The fact that you can't rotate the driven clutch counter clockwise (forward) by hand is a starting point. With the rear of the sled off the ground you should be able to spin the track by hand or by the driven clutch.

I would assume you are doing all of this with the rear of the sled off that ground?

Did you smell any burning during your ride.....maybe the brake is somehow not releasing all the way keeping tension on everything? Take a look at the brake disk for any excessive wear or to see if that is somehow hanging up.

Grab the track (with it not touching the ground) and try to spin it forward.....what happens?

What kind of sled is this, curious what kind of reverse it has (I am assuming it's mechanical)? Maybe something messed up with the gear mechanism for that? I have never looked at a mechanical reverse system so I can't help much with that.

[mrjigger]

311,

Yes I am doing all of the turning with the track off the ground.

do you mean the clutch should stop me from rotating the track when turning the driven clutch? You said should not stop.

the clutch is stopping me from rotating the track when I try to turn counter clockwise. Is that what it is supposed to do?

I can turn the track when rotating the driven cluth clockwise.

I think if I were to put the sled in reverse, and turn it off, I would beable to rotate the driven clutch counter clockwise, but not clockwise. I have not tried this, but I would think that is how it would work.

I have tried to spin the track forward with my hands. For the most part I can not do it. I was able to move it a little but then it stopped, but I think the clutch must have been at that certain position where I could rotate the driven clutch counter clockwise.

The sled is a 94 arctic cat prowler 2-up. It does have a mechanical reverse mechanism. To engage the reverse you just rotate a handle down and a rod near the gear case lifts up putting the sled in reverse.

And I am able to put the sled into reverse and out of reverse without any force or restriction at all. Same as it has always been.

I don't really remember smelling any burning. But come to think of it, I have revved the engine up quite a bit in the garage trying to free the track and there is a ton of smoke. It does smell a little different than traditional exhaust smoke.

thanks for all the help. I will look at the brakes tonight.

[311Hemi]

The driven clutch should always be able to spin counter clockwise standing on the PTO (clutch) side of the snowmobile. The engine never changes direction on your sled so that clutch will never turn in reverse on purpose. You should be able to turn the driven clutch which should move the track (take the belt off as well if you have not already).

In forward everything should spin the same direction of the engine (counter clockwise). In reverse the engine/clutch will turn that same direction, but the gear box will make the track turn to opposite way (assuming I understand the mechanical reverse).

You should be able to turn the track or driven clutch and move the other (with the belt off). If you can't move either and it's not the brake it may be binding somewhere. Possibly the the track is too tight for some reason, suspension is bent, track is rubbing somewhere, bad rear wheel bearings, etc). Maybe something in the chaincase or maybe a bearing was starting to go out and is now seized.

If you can turn the secondary back and forth easily just a little bit right now (making the slight slack in the chain move) then I would not think it is the brake

[mudslinger]

My guesses are: brake is stuck (buddy of mine did this and we towed the sled off the lake using a ice fishing sled only to find the brake lock stuck ON), seized drive shaft bearing (although I thought they usually melt and create play in the drive shaft thus allowing you to still spin the track), track too tight (but it should still move a little I would guess).?????????

[hydro]

Since you stated that your secondary is able to turn counterclockwise, but jams when turned clockwise (forward sled movement) I woud guess that you have something like an adjuster broken inside the chaincase. That's where I would start to look.

[Surface Tension]

Process of elimination.

Remove the belt and try moving the track or secondary.

Get underneath and and try and move the track, look to see where if it is binding anywhere. Then look for a big chunk of ice or log stuck.

Check the drive and rear axles for a bad bearing.

Check the track tension and alignment.

If that all checks out then move on.

Check the jack shaft for a bad bearing.

Check the brake.

If your sure it is none of the above its time to drain and remove the chain case cover.

[mrjigger]

Thanks guys for all the help.

I don't have alot of experience with working on engines, etc.

But I should beable to figure it out. I found some schematics on the internet that shows where everything is.

Now I just need some time to work on it.

Thanks again.

[mrjigger]

I just want to thank everyone that helped me out. I took advantage of the warm weather this afternoon and worked on my sled for a half hour. Vikes seemed to have the game in hand.

I took the brake off, started the sled up and gave it some gas. Looked at the track and thankfully it was spinning.

The brake must have been stuck. Now I just need to figure out how the brake assembly goes back together. Shouldn't be too tough.

thanks again.