1d

[bottomdweller]

Hi, I have the oppurtunity to purchase a 1d with two batteries.

It is used and has around 4000actuations. The owner wants 450.00

My question is should I pull the plug or would I be better off with a new rebel xsi. I am pretty new to dslrs.

Thanks

[Steve Foss]

bottomdweller, there are a lot of features the 1 series bodies have that make them very sweet to use. But that body is quite old now, even though it was the top of the Canon line in its day.

What types of things are you going to shoot?

If 4,000 is the right number of shutter actuations, you're getting a good deal for that body at that price, but it's easier for us to give you an opinion if we know the types of photography you want to do.

[bottomdweller]

I have two dogs, one in agility and one going to start field trials. So alot of the shooting would be outdoors. Alot of the agility is indoors. Also I would like to shoot wildlife eventually.

Thanks for any input

[Steve Foss]

Hmmm, that's a toughie.

The XSi has much better autofocus capabilities on moving subjects than the older entry-level DSLRs, but I don't know if it's as good as the autofocus on the 1D. I'd guess not. And Ai servo mode autofocus is a big deal when you're photographing sports/dogs/etc., anything that's moving a lot.

So I think that might be a vote for the 1D.

Digital noise is another issue, and I don't know how the two bodies compare in that category either. The 1D has a larger sensor than the XSi, and at 4.1 Mp it would perform quite well noise-wise because the more pixels you pack on a sensor the more noise you have, and there are a LOT more pixels on the XSi's smaller sensor. However, pixel technology has come a long way since the 1D, and the XSi has a much newer processor, which also cuts down on noise. I'd have to say that one's a tossup. Anybody have direct noise comparisons on the two?

Lens choice is going to be crucial for what you want to photograph. You'll want a zoom that opens to f2.8 for those indoor images because with indoor light you usually need high iso and a wide open aperture to get your shutter speed fast enough to freeze motion. You can choose from two Canon 70-200 f2.8L lenses (one image stabilized and one not), which range from $1,100 to $1,700. However, Tamron and Sigma both make excellent 70-200 f2.8 lenses for less money. You can go with a prime lens like the Canon 85mm f1.8, which is a good indoor sports lens and less money yet, but you lose the flexibility and muscle of the 70-200.

Image quality on the 1D is excellent, but one factor is cropping. If you have to crop away to get a tigher image on a 4.1 Mp file, you don't have much room to work with. The XSi will be much better there.

Also, you'll be lucky to get 500 shutter actuations per battery with the 1D, and that can be a big issue when photographing at a high-speed burst rate. The XSI is far more efficient.

So many things to think about.

[polarsusd81]

The other thing to think about with being "new" to DSLR's is the learning curve on the 1D series bodies. They aren't a pick up and shoot style camera. In my opinion, you have to know what results you want from the photo and what the best option is to get those results when shooting with the big dogs.

Are you new to DSLR's with a good bit of experience with film SLR's or have you been shooting a point and shoot, looking at stepping into DSLR's? That is going to be the biggest factor in which camera you choose. If you are completely new to SLR cameras, digital or film, the Rebel XSi is going to be a better choice for you. They are easier to learn on, while still providing excellent results. There are program modes on the Rebel and 20-50D series which at first will help you learn to control the camera.

Steve brings up excellent points in his posts. Autofocus is going to be astonishing with the 1D series cameras, while on the XSi it is great. The 20-50D series would rate in at excellent. You would be trading autofocus speed and accuracy, but it wouldn't be a huge trade. Your lenses are going to be the biggest factor most likely. Canon L series glass will focus very fast and very accurately, while the lower end lenses will be a bit slower. You will miss shots if your lens can't focus fast enough.

I have been going over a lot of these same thoughts as I recently found a 1D with one battery and no shutter count for 400. I passed on it in favor of something else though.

Shot with my new something else. 1D Mk II with 70-200 F4L

[bottomdweller]

Steve, thankyou very much for the input. Wow, I didnt expect the lens would be that much. I was looking at a used 28-135 is f3.55-5.6 I guess that lens would not benifit me at all from what you have said for the shooting I will be doing.

Might have to buy the camera and wait to get a lens. Bummer.

Thanks again you have helped alot.

[Steve Foss]

bd, fast moving subjects like those you describe make the biggest demands on gear. Outdoors you probably would get plenty of winners with the lens you mentioned, though you'd get even more keepers with a faster lens. Indoors, with the lens fully extended at f5.6, you're losing a lot of shutter speed compared with f2.8, and the camera/lens will have more trouble focusing in low light.

But go to one of the online photo places like B&H or Canoga and look up prices for the Sigma and Tamron 70-200 f2.8 lenses. They are excellent lenses of pro caliber for less money than the Canon lenses.

[bottomdweller]

Polarsus, very good points. I am new to the digital world. I used to play around with a nikon 35mm slr. Was not very good at it but I didnt put in the time which I seem to have more of these days. I like the xsi but I am not comfortable with the 3.5 fps. I was looking at the 50d which is much better for fps. Thought I might get it all going with a used camera.

Thanks and keep the input coming.

[Steve Foss]

bd, take a look at used. The 40D can be had these days for about $700, the 50D a little more. I think you'll be a lot happier with a 40D/50D than with either the 1D or the XSi.

[bottomdweller]

I have looked some Steve and the cheap guy inside of me is trying to get the biggest bang for the buck.

So hard to decide with a limited income.

I do like the 50d. I will have to sweet talk the boss some moreeeeeeee.

[MARINERMAGNUM]

The features of the top models are blended into the entry level bodies usually within a year. Steve is right on-an entry level Rebel XS-while lacking frame rate-has superior processor technology inside compared to the pro bodies from just a few years ago. That's why lenses are always the best investment,bodies become outdated too fast-like computers-but good quality lenses will retain a high percentage of their value. A used 20D/30D would be an excellent choice also.

[2u77matt]

I'm still using a 20D, and it's more than capable of taking great photos. Between my camera and myself, I'm almost always the one holding up the show! It has a pretty quick fps (5 or 6 per second, I don't remember exactly), 8.1 MP, and it can be had CHEAP these days. I've seen them in the $250-$300 range. Dislikes would be a loud shutter, small viewing screen, and I'm sure newer bodies handle the higher ISO's better. But . . . if you're on a tight budget I'd definitely recommend getting the fast lens and buying the body with whatever you have left. Good luck with the purchase. You'll have a blast.

[Steve Foss]

I'll second the thoughts on used xxD series cameras.

Matt, the 30D has the same sensor and processor as the 20D if memory serves, and since Canon keeps going on the megapixel race, I don't know if noise performance on the 40D and 50D is really any better than on the 20D/30D. They keep packing more and more pixels on the same size sensor, and though they keep improving the technology and the processors, I think they're essentially holding even.

I keep looking at used 40D/50D and 1D Mk2/Mk2n bodies, but it's a simple fact that I don't need a newer/fancier/more expensive body than my 30D cameras to do all the work to make my living, so likely I'll just wait until they wear out in a couple years and then replace them with used 40D bodies, and of course in two years the 40D will be far out of fashion yet well within utility.

Using top glass helps a lot. The 30D at iso1600 through a sharp prime f2.8 lens has excellent IQ with only a bit of apparent noise that's easily tamed when necessary with Noise Ninja. And autofocus performance has always been very good for me on those bodies, including working with sports and birds in flight, although in low light conditions fast f2.8 glass is needed to get the shot sometimes. It definitely ain't 1 series AF, but it ain't chopped liver, neither.

[Hwood]

I do not trust my auto focus on my xsi. If I want to make sure the focus is dead on I go to live view and work from there. This takes time and I miss a lot of shots with animals since they often move on and then I start to say things if you know what I mean. I am not saying the camera is junk, it is my first camera and its rather cool and all for a new guy but I think I should be able to put more faith in auto focus than I do. I have lots to learn, some of it could be me. If you do go with the xsi don't expect to much from the kit lens.

[Steve Foss]

Hwood, there is a learning curve to using autofocus for sure, and it also depends on the lens. I had great luck with the autofocus on the DRebel XT, which I used off and on for a couple years and was two generations back from the XSi. If you have worries about the AF performance and the camera is less than a year old, I'd definitely send it back to Canon to have it looked at and possibly repaired. Under warranty, it's free.

[Hwood]

Thanks Steve, I may just do that. I have been giving it time to see if its me or not. Lens is a 70-300 f/4-5.6 is usm

[Steve Foss]

Hwood, if you send the body back to Canon on warranty, send the lens, too. They'll recalibrate both for free if it's less than a year since you bought them.

[bottomdweller]

Thanks everyone for the input. So I have been looking all over for a used 50d. Not much for deals when I could find one.

So maybe I will look at the 30 or 40d and get that sigma 70-200

Cant wait to get one and try it out.

[Steve Foss]

POTN has a very active Canon-only buy/sell board, and it's free. I have bought and sold there many times with great luck. At any given moment, there are usually a dozen bodies from 20D to 50D up for sale at good prices.

[Dbl]

Fred Miranda is likely the busiest board for gear out there. I've also had great luck buying and selling through it.

[polarsusd81]

Yeah, the other FM has a lot of stuff for sale at all times. Along with multiple reviews on all the essential gear. One of my other favorite websites.

[bottomdweller]

O.K I found a 30d demo with a one year warranty still for 500

good deal?

Is the 30d a better camera than purchasing a new xsi?

Thanks

[bottomdweller]

I pulled the trigger on the 30d and 70-200 f/2.8 cant wait for them to arrive. Im sure I will have lots of questions later.

Thanks for all the input.

[Steve Foss]

Congrats, bottomdweller!

One piece info that will please you is that, when using the center focus point, the xxD series offers increased speed/precision of autofocus on f2.8 or wider lenses.

Which brand 70-200 did you pick up?

[mmeyer]

Congrats, that should be a great combo for you! Have fun!!