Teaching setters to retrieve

[scotty18]

Hi guys, I have been planning to return to my trainer to do some force break training. My dog got one lesson last fall before we had to stop. Since then whenever he picks something up, he'll bring it to me and deliver to my hand. Now I just found out my family has been taking him to the back yard and have been playing "fetch" with him and my lab. Will this hurt him in anyway? He is accually retrieving pretty good, but I'm wondering if I should tell them to stop and wait until I can do the force breaking? He will honor my lab when it's her turn for a retrieve. How he learned that I don't know, my wife said he just did it.
Any help would be great. I'm looking forword to our get together.

Thanks, Scotty

[BDR]

Scotty- I had to ddeal with the same thing at my house. 4 kids and my wife, I think it's only natural that they will play(fetch) with the pooch. If I said that wasn't allowed I bet it wouldn't stop. That's how much power I have around here .

What I do is encourage it but teach them some "rules". No "tug of war", no "keep away", the kids repeat the same commands I use.

I also believe that to some extent my dog knows who he's dealing with and when it is gametime v.s play.

I have been lucky with my current GSP. He is one of the best retrieving GSP's i've seen. He retrieved to hand as a pup naturally. If your around my house I he'll find some slimy ball to drop in your lap.

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Will fish for work
Brian Rogers

[setterguy]

Scotty- When you say you are going back to Force Break the dog, what exactly are you talking about? Are you talking about Force Fetching or steading him up to wing and shot or kill? In my experiences if your dog is retrieving birds in the field then you have very little to worry about. Like BDR said no tug of war and consistency on the commands should allow the kids to play with the dog. I say the more a dog can pick up and bring back the better retriever they will become. One suggestion, tell your kids that if the dog ever decides to run around with the toy instead of bringing it back to end the game immediatly. No yelling, pleading, or chasing. Simply turn around, go inside and shut the door. Old Rex will get the idea that that is not how to play....

[scotty18]

Thanks for the replies. My wife is standing here reading your replies with me. She says they are already doing what you suggested. Setterguy-force breaking is the process used to to train dog that aren't natural retrievers to retrieve. You put the dog on a bench, Teach them to hold objects, deliver to hand etc. I'm new to this, so I don't know all the process. A lot of trainer put their retrievers thought this to make them better. Someone like Labs4me could explain it better than me.

Thanks, Scotty

[Swamp Scooter]

I agree with the no tug of war and keep away. The rest sounds good. If the dog is carrying things around and delivering them to hand you are on the right track. It will not hurt the pointing as long as you make the dog wait until released to go and get the dummy. I have always liked to do yard work retrieving with my pointers. It is fun too if they swim. It breaks up the pointing in a different area and it is easier to control and work on things when not in the bird field.

Make sure there are a few times they throw out the dummy that they do not let the dog get it and they go and pick it up themselves, while the dog watches.

[scotty18]

After reading my reply again, I think force break and force fetch is the same thing. Have anyone read the article in the newest "Gun Dog" magazine about the dual purpose setters? Any opinions?
Also I feel I need to work on "whoa" more. What procedure does everyone use? I have bought just about every video on training pointers and it seems like for each video there's a different technique. My only comment is using the barrel looks interesting.

Scotty

[setterguy]

Scotty - that clears it up for me. When teaching a dog to stand broke, some guys call that breaking them so I was just looking for a little further info. Now that I know what your talking about, I would like a little more info on the pup. How old is it? How did it handle retrieves last year? How important is it that the dog comes 100% of the way back 100% of the time? Just a few things that would help me develop an opinion on what the best route is with your dog. As far as teaching a dog to whoa, shoot me an email, I have a fool proof method that doesn't cause a dog to lose conscienceness like the barrel, and you can do it right in your living room.

[email protected]

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Keep the tip up, ask permission and shoot straight. Setterguy

[gspman]

setterguy,
I'd like to hear your living room whoa training technique. If you can train in the living room I'm all for it. Can you post it on the board?
gspman

[BDR]

I'll bring my dig. camera to the clinic so we can post some pics.

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Will fish for work
Brian Rogers

[setterguy]

Ok this may be a little hard to follow but here goes...

First, get a standard leash. Wrap the leash around the dogs belly so the clasp goes through the handle part. Then attach the clasp to the dogs collar. If its hooked up right you should have a little dog suitcase. Now the dog will probably struggle and throw itself on the ground and throw a little tantrum right away, just stay calm and keep pulling them off the floor with the "suitcase". Once they have stopped struggling, start moving while holding on to the leash. Once they are walking with you, stop, give them a whoa command and gently tug up on the leash. If they move, pick them up with the leash and set them back in place. Again, they will probably struggle and throw a fit but with them restrained like this you have total control to get them back on thier feet. At the begining only make them stop for 5-10 seconds. Then give them a release command and start walking with them again. Give the whoa command and with a little tug stop walking. Again, if they move, pick them off the ground and set them back in place. You can start making them stay put for longer and longer periods of time then eventually start walking away from them. Just remember if they move without a command pick them off the ground and set them back in place. I know this is kind of a hard thing to picture but I tried........ This technique has worked with every dog I have ever used it on. It is a very simple, painless way to teach a dog that whoa means stop, and stay until told otherwise. I start with puppies as young as 12 weeks with this method, it doesn't hurt and the fact that they realize that you are in total control really makes them pay attention. If you need some more explanation just leave a post here. Hope this helps. For those of you going to the clinic on the 20th, we will have a demonstration on this technique.

[Grabs]

If someone could take a picture of the way to "route" the leash that would be really helpful. I don't need it now, but when you're at the Dog Clinic if some one could post a picture of this that would be great.