What's the advantage?

[Roofer]

It's been proven a few times that aggressive tires do less damage than less aggressive tires. Mainly because they actually get traction rather than spinning.

Like somethingfishy said, maybe an argo would fit the situation for some better than an atv.

[hanso612]

Harvey, don't get me wrong. Todays machines are vastly superior to the old three wheelers in almost every way especially the four wheel drive models with reverse, and as you say they go everywere.

My point is that they do more damage than they need to because they are made to fit in the bed of a pickup. If you put the old style tires on the new models they would be too wide for the truck. As the atv's got more powerfull they got heavier but there tires got narrower.

It's a matter of pounds per square inch and dispersing the load.

One trip with a three wheel spreads the load between three ruts helping as well.

For decades we ran Honda three wheelers on our network of trails with no rutting and a beatiful lane to walk right down the middle. As soon as the first four wheeler made it to camp the trails instantly rutted up. Now sneaking in to the stands often requires breaking through skim ice or tripping over snow snakes that used to flattened by the wide balloon tires of the three wheelers.

Sure we used to flip over backward and had a hard time stearing, but that kept us reponsible and traveling at reponsible speeds.

Iv'e done enough bobcat work working for a fence company to see the difference in the amount of damage done to residential sod by lug tires compared to that done by turf tires. I saw the differnece first hand on the tractor too when mowing. Turf tires do less damage. The only time you need that agressive lug is when you are going through mud or up a wet slope. These are the times when most of the damage is done to the trails and the atv is best left at home. On public land it's a crime to run under these conditions and this is exactly the kind of damage that is making such a public backlash.

I think todays machines are awesome, but given the choice I would pick a machine that could be lifted over downed trees easily by one person, one that didn't turn my trails to mud, and one that floated to save my life while out ice fishing. It still needs to be able to pull a deer, but it doesn't need to competitively hill climb nor does it need to be a tractor.We already have tractors.

I just see the nitch John p is talking about disappearing and in this age of high fuel costs and tight budgets I would like to see a well made deer hunting machine that isn't a budget killer or an environmental impactor. Hans

[harvey lee]

I would assume the w 4 wheeler mfger are trying top make a few machines that will do it all. As far as damage to the trails, those that do damage will always sdo it as they do not care when and how they ride. I have never tore any trail up as I do not ride on it when the conditions are not favorable for this.

The mfgers could build a more specific wheeler for evry or more conditions but are most willing to really fork out the extra money for the added cost to these companies, I would doubt that they majority will say no.

[Roofer]

On grass, yes, the turf type tires do less damage. Not sure the last time I saw grass on the trails though. Normally they are dusty gravel.

Driving over wet ground or muddy ground to get to a stand....the more aggressive tires do much less damage.(with a responsible rider) On our land, the way the trails get worked up so much is because if some of the smaller machines with small stock tires, spinning through the rough stuff. The bigger machines with decent tires can go in low range and just creep back to where we are hunting, working, etc.

The sportsman 90 has racks, it's lightweight, and is under $2K brand new.

[Dave S]

Harvey has a good point. It's not necessarily what we ride, it's how we ride that's causing the problems.

I also agree with Roofer. In the right circumstances, the deeper lug tires will do less damage. They have their place.

[hanso612]

Big ATV and agressive lugs shine in many areas and uses.But off trail use in zone one is not one of them. Yes, big machines are safer and more reliable. The lug tires go flat significantly less than the old style balloon tires. Tons of damage gets done when an ATV gets stuck and has to be extracted by trucks that wouldn't happen if the ATV didn't get stuck in the first place- and these powerfull four wheelers get stuck less often. And yes in the vast majority of cases the damage is driver related.

That being said I still see the ATV getting bigger and more truck like every year and this can only make the damage worse. In our area and most of the arrowhead there is little topsoil and most trails go through sensitive areas with surface water everywhere because the bedrock is at the surface. There are few highspeed gravel trails and the vast majority of them are privately made and not mantained by any forest service. They go from deer camp to deer stand and from shooting lane to logging road often going from private land to county tax forfeit, to state land, to potlatch and diamond match land and back to private. There are few ATV parks, hill climbs, and race coarses set up. Nothing like the gravel areas of the north metro and zone two.

No one organization regulates these trails and most never see a CO. So it is up to the users to buy the least damaging machine and use it in the least damaging way and if the manufactures keep making bigger machines we can't make the best choices.

I don't see it happening until we abandon the between the wheel well atttitude. Hans