Live bait and cut bait Qs

[mainbutter]

I'm planning on trying out fishing with some live bait and cut bait, probably on the Cannon River, and maybe a few local ponds/lakes.

I've never fished with any kind of bait in MN other than worms before, and I was hoping that since it seems all you catfishermen/women use live and cut bait(as opposed to artificials) for your fishing, you could give me some tips on what to use and what I can catch(I'm after just whatever's around, be it catfish or otherwise)

1, bait rules/regs) So the 2008 fishing regs state that it is illegal to use whole or parts of game fish for bait. What is the definition of "game fish"?

2, Bullheads) I finally stumbled across a place with some bullheads today, so that was exciting catching my first bullhead. What are these guys good for? What I've gathered from reading these forums is that they're used as live bait for flatheads, right? I don't think we have flatheads on the Cannon, would the be good cut bait? Maybe for channel catfish? Anyone ever catch something other than catfish on bullheads?

3, Any other bait fish) What else should I look into using for either live bait or cut bait, for river fishing? Which can I try to catch on rod/reel? Which need to be trapped/bought at a bait shop?

Thanks for any advice!

[Lowblazah]

Click here for your answers

[mainbutter]

I read the entirety of that thread already before I made this one, and while it was informative, I still would be interested in a little more in-depth advice about live/cut bait(especially bait I can catch on rod-and-reel)

[AceintheHole]

Bullheads work get for flatheads. By law they can only be 7" or shorter to be used as bait. Suckers, shad, creek chubs will work for cut bait. Circle hooks for cut bait and J style or straight hooks for livebait. If you are catching bullheads for bait try to set the hook as soon as possible to avoid hurting the fish and making it worthless for bait.

[Lowblazah]

OK Let me try to answer your more specific questions.

1) Gamefish in MN are catfish, trout, salmon, Walleye, Sunfish, Crappies, northerns, bass and Musky (I know I'm missing some...I'm searching the dnr's HSOforum for a more specific answer)

2) Live bullheads are great for Flatheads. Its possible to also catch an occasional Channel or walleye on them too. They are quite messy when you cut them as they bleed like a stuck pig. The few times I have tried, I havent had any luck with using them as cut bait.

3) all chubs, suckers, and bullheads can be caught on a hook and line or a by means of a seine. I prefer waders and a seine...its quicker.

Hope this helps...

[Mr Special]

Fresh "still bleeding" cut bullheads is a pretty good bait for channel cats. I used to fish the cannon alot when i was younger and have use cut bullheads with good success. The key to using bullheads is Fresh. I've tried freezing them and thawing it out with no success at all. I've also caught channel cats on smaller 4"-5" live bullheads as well.

However I would rather use suckers for cut bait. I've used then fresh or frozen/thawed with great success. You can catch a few suckers, fillet them, cut to size, freeze them in trip size bags and always have bait avaliable.

Now ya got me thinking and I just might have to take a trip down that way sometime.

Good luck hope this helps

[SteveD]

I use bullheads for cut bait with good results. They are very bloody and leave a good scent trail. I know I have seen a number of posts that don't recommend bullheads for cut bait but that has not been my experience. Cut bait is cut bait, I don't think the type of fish matters much. The bloodier the better. I don't keep cut bait on the hook for very long - 15 minutes tops. You are trying to leave a good scent trail and after about 15 minutes it is time for fresh scent.

I try to cut up the bait as I need it to keep it as fresh as possible. If you cut it up ahead of time then I recommend keeping it on ice. If I cut it up ahead of time I keep it in a tupperware container in ice in a cooler.

I keep all the bullheads I catch and like to use the small ones for cut bait. Run a sharp fillet knife down the side to open them up, cut off the head and tail with a scissors and you have a perfect piece of bloody cut bait.

One tip for making cut bait especially when cutting up larger size fish like sheepshead and larger suckers. I like to run a sharp fillet knife down the side to make a nice bloody fillet and then use a scissors to cut up the pieces. I have a Game Shears that I bought at Cabela's that is perfect for making cut bait. It cuts right through bone and scales with little effort. Sometimes a knife has trouble with scales and bones and when you start hacking away with a sharp knife it can get a little unsafe - use a bigger scissors or a game shears and you will be amazed at how easy it makes the job.

[SteveD]

 Originally Posted By: mainbutter

I'm planning on trying out fishing with some live bait and cut bait, probably on the Cannon River, and maybe a few local ponds/lakes.

I've never fished with any kind of bait in MN other than worms before, and I was hoping that since it seems all you catfishermen/women use live and cut bait(as opposed to artificials) for your fishing, you could give me some tips on what to use and what I can catch(I'm after just whatever's around, be it catfish or otherwise)

1, bait rules/regs) So the 2008 fishing regs state that it is illegal to use whole or parts of game fish for bait. What is the definition of "game fish"?

Thanks for any advice!

The answer to your question is really not what are game fish but rather what are rough fish?

Page 3 of the 2008 Minnesota Fishing Regulations defines Rough Fish as - Carp, buffalo, sucker, sheepshead, bowfin, cisco, gar, goldeye, and bullhead.

It is legal to use rough fish for cut bait except for carp. When using cut bait always remember the general regulation on Page 8 of the 2008 Minnesota Fishing regulation which states: Using whole or parts of game fish, goldfish, or carp for bait is unlawful. I normally use bullheads, sheepshead, and suckers for cut bait. Suckers are the easiest to get because they are available at any bait shop.

[hanso612]

Mainbutter, where it gets tricky is transporting bait and it's a big grey area they are bouncing around the water cooler at the state.

In your area there are lakes and ponds on and off of the infested water list. The Cannon river is on the list. So you can still use bullheads for bait you caught at the dam if you put them on a hook and toss them back out at the dam.

You could get sited( still a contentious hot issue) if you put the bait in the bucket,put it in your car and drive to the bridge north of town-not because its illegal(yet) to transport minnows but becuse the bullhead you just caught is from an infested water.

What's keeping you from saying you caught the bullhead from the pond is just a matter of morals.

So it gets cloudy if a guy pulls up at the landing at Blysby with a bunch of bullheads and runs into a CO who has no way of knowing where the bullheads came from. It could be yours from the dam or one of Steve's from a safe lake.

As more and more waters get on the exotic list collecting bait safely and legaly is going to get tough. Proving where it came from tougher. So if you've been following the threads on this issue the easy thing to do is outlaw transport of bait that doesn't have a certifivate of quarenteen or something like it. Keeping those reciepts from being forged or reused will result in another cascading set of rules. And I've said my piece on that and won't go into that here.

Wisconsin is already moving this way.

When talking with some people from the DNR today off the record I asked the same question that started my rant a few days ago"what are you doing to protect the harvest and use of live bait" and I got an answer of "maybe it's something we don't want to do" refering to VHS I'm sure. But the writting is on the wall.

Welcome to Minnesota fishing, nothing is ever as clear as it seems.

[mainbutter]

Is it legal to use the bullheads I catch in lyman lakes downstream in the cannon? I was assuming that since lyman flows into the cannon, it would be fine for me to use downstream a quarter mile or so.. but if not I'll just end up getting something from a bait shop or maybe trying out chicken livers or other bait that has been suggested to me.

[DTro]

Mainbutter, all the infested waters are clearly listed in the regs. If the water is infested you cannot take bait from there unless you have a permit/license.

[mainbutter]

yeah I didn't think they listed this pond/stream on campus that flows into the cannon as being infested.. The only rice county water on the infested list is "Cannon, Cannon R. (from Wells to the confluence with the Straight R.), Wells" and "Cedar". I can use non-infested bait and transport it fish with in "infested waters", right??

edit: I just looked up Lyman(on-campus stream/pond I mentioned) on the DNR webpage to double check, and it looks like it is considered just fine to catch bait there, so that's good.

[DTro]

 Originally Posted By: mainbutter

I can use non-infested bait and transport it fish with in "infested waters", right??

yep, just can't do it the other way around

[rockingroy]

Question: Is there a limit to what size sucker you can use for cut bait? i.e.; Can I catch a 14" sucker or larger on hook and line and use it for cut bait legally? I know a sucker is only considered a minnow up to 12" and that you can't use game fish as cut bait, but I'm not sure if a sucker is considered a game fish. Any clarification would be appreciated.

[Grant]

Don't think there would be, so long as a sucker over 12" isn't transported live. Sucker species are considered rough fish, and the DNR has only prohibited specific species; Carp and goldfish.