What lcd monitor?

[nluchau]

I am planning on purchasing an LCD Monitor and am undecided on the widescreen or regular. I have heard of images being distorted on the widescreen so thats why I'd like to ask here to see who is using one for viewing images and you like it.

My computer is 2 years old and has onboard video. Does my video card need to be able to support widescreen or is there a regular display setting I just need to change it to in order for photos to look "normal".

Thanks for any input.

Nick

[nluchau]

I think I have made my decision. Thanks!

[Steve Foss]

Sorry there wasn't help for you here, nluchau. On my part, it's technical stuff I don't know much about.

[Dbl]

All I can say is be careful about wide gaummet displays. If using as a photo imaging monitor they don't play well with photos and colors.

In terms of image quality for photos these are the lcd panel types with the top being the best and the bottom the worst:

IPS

PVA

MVA

TN

Keep in mind most lcd's under $400 will be TN. Sounds like your graphics card is relatively current so you should have no worries on the resolution that it can set. The graphics card drivers will do the heavy lifting for you on this one. You will want to make sure you are running the latest version of the drivers for your card.

[Steve Foss]

Yep, just as I feared, it all sounds like Greek to me!

But I'll remember that so when it comes time to switch to LCD I'll know a little bit more what I'm doing.

[Dbl]

I'm looking at upgrading my 19" lcd and you have to get into the $800 to $1000 range to get a monitor that is capable for quality display in image work. The really good ones are in the $5000 range.

I guess Samsung has a 22" TN panel lcd that has 8 bit capability, might be a good value. There are a few PVA screens that are in the $400 to $500 range that are decent as well.

[jonny_redhorse]

I picked up a 22" last year at Best buy in Duluth for about 300+ bucks and an quite happy with it...I know it "stretches" the images a bit and at first it was somewhat strange but I got used to it...I know I could set the compression and whatever to get it smaller but I kinda like it now........really makes for somenice scenery shots as a background...color on it is good clarity is good....no doubt something better will come along in a year or 2 and maybe even go to a 24"

not sure what those blue streaks and blobs are in this pic but the actual pic on my monitor doesn't have those...camera must have something to do with it...light area on the screen right side are from light coming in from a window by the monitor

[nluchau]

Thanks for the replies. I am currently building a pc for my in-laws and had purchased a Samsung 906BW 19" 2ms(GTG). I decided to hook up that monitor to my pc and needed to update the video card drivers. After I did that I was able to get the optimized settings of 1440x900. It color looks outstanding, the pictures look great too (its not distorted at all). That lcd however looks small on my desk so I'd like to get a 22". I am looking at possibly purchasing a Samsung 2253BW 22" 2ms(GTG). According to the specs of this one my video card will work with this one too.

Dbl - I'm not too familiar with those terms,IPS,PVA,MVA etc... Can you elaborate on them? I don't want a monitor just for doing photography but when I view my pictures I don't want them distorted.

Johnny, It shouldn't stretch the pics at all, perhaps your resolution setting is off??

Nick

[Dbl]

Nick here is a basic run down on the types and what they are good for. This information comes from a web site called AnandTech, you've probably heard of it if you are building a computer.

It is a small section that I pasted close to verbatium on lcd's, though I edited and left out some of the technical specs. It does give a good break down of the panel types and is one of the easier to understand information sources on screens. For anyone looking at Lcd's this is really one of many very good sites that can open your eyes to what is out there.

I would have just provided a link but he does some commercial business as well. He has some very clear and good information that I feel is beneficial to others here, so thank you and full credit goes to AnandTech.

 Quote:

When you're looking to buy an LCD, you must take into account their many parameters. Some LCDs are better than others for certain purposes. For instance, ones with a fast response time and low input lag are ideal for games. LCDs with high contrast are great for gaming too, but are even more suitable for movies. You will have to find one (or even two) that can accommodate all of your needs.

Color depth, or bit depth, is one major factor in choosing an LCD. LCDs that offer true 8-bit color depth will provide a more contiguous grayscale with no dithering artifacts. They are better especially in the darker shades of color. 6-bit LCDs tend to experience artifacts in darker colors, although more recent ones that implement an algorithm called Hi-FRC (high frame rate control) have made the artifacts virtually invisible to the human eyes. TN panels are physically incapable of producing 256 levels of gray (true 8-bit), so naturally, they must employ Hi-FRC. TN panels also happen to be low in contrast, so this gives 6-bit panels altogether a bad connotation. On the other hand, "true 8-bit" LCDs are almost always equipped with higher contrast panels and wide viewing angles. Keep in mind that color depth is a factor independent of panel technology, at least for VA and IPS. A VA panel is not always 8-bit!

All desktop LCDs are based on a-Si (amorphous silicon) TFT (thin film transistor) technology. We effectively have three major classes of TFTs: TN, VA (MVA/PVA), and S-IPS. Each of these main classes has its own subclasses, but the differences tend to be minor. We will first discuss the most primitive TFT technology, twisted nematic (TN).

TN displays are known for their excellent response time, but also poor viewing angle. The vertical viewing angle can be especially limited, making the use of portrait mode (pivot) difficult. Most people sit right in front of their screen without moving, so the problem may be insignificant. TNs tend to produce a less uniform brightness output than other panels, so looking at large areas of a light color can be uncomfortable at any angle. When you look at a TN from below, the image will appear almost fully inverted.

Despite their viewing angle problems, TN panels make great gaming displays. Modern TNs with no speed acceleration technology reach an 18-25 ms response time, the time it takes for one crystal to transition from one color to another color (all transitions take a slightly different amount of time, especially when different color pairs are involved). LCDs with slow response time exhibit effects of ghosting, a double image lagging behind the main image, in moderate to very fast motion, and stuttering in instances of slow motion. TNs often also have the least input lag, a delay in which the LCD's image is a couple frames behind what's being sent.

Next up are the VA (vertical alignment) panels: MVA (multidomain vertical alignment) and PVA (patterned vertical alignment). In actuality, both have very similar characteristics even though they operate by different means. Typical VAs offer around twice the maximum brightness of the average TN panel. They are also famous for their high dynamic range and low black level. Response time, with RTC (response time compensation, a crystal acceleration technology) is right up there with TN panels that aren't paired with the same tech. Their input lag, partly caused by RTC, tends to be the worst of the three most popular panels. The total image delay (again, mainly input lag) can get up to 70 ms in the worst cases with most large VA-based screens averaging around 30-50 ms. It's usually not as much as an issue for smaller VA panels, although one, the Acer AL2051W, reaches 34 ms on average.

MVA and PVA panels are generally economical (MVA the cheaper of the two), but are still less present on the market than TNs. Their viewing angle is dramatically better, although slightly yellowish tinting is noticeable at certain angles. VA panels with RTC are generally a good choice for just about anything, if you can find one at the size and price you desire. Unfortunately, their input lag could eliminate the choice altogether for you (especially when it comes to big screens).

Sharp has a line of panels named ASV (Advanced Super View), named for its wide viewing angle. This is also a VA technology but currently, at least in the US market, it is only used in TVs. It has been reputed to deliver excellent image quality and response time.

Lastly, S-IPS panels are the choice of the professionals. They boast near-perfect viewing angles, and often offer better color reproduction than VA panels. Response time, with RTC, is right in the ballpark of the VA panels with RTC. This panel type is probably the sweet spot for having good colors and low response, as well as having a medium input lag time. Their image delay tends to be slightly worse than TNs (that average 15 ms or so). In a few cases they can go up to 30 ms but most IPS panels hang in there well enough, not reaching the magnitude of a VA panel.

IPS panels suffer more from SDE (screen door effect), a phenomenon in which your eyes are able to visualize all the individual pixels on the screen. In this way, they can cause more eye strain. This isn't an issue for the majority of users, and may only happen when working with text or other light-background material. Their brightness is typically somewhere between that of TNs and VAs, but variants such as AS-IPS can offer white levels of up to 470 nits and lifelike, vibrant colors. In most cases however, this maximum brightness does not indicate a usable value. Their grayscale reproduction must be sacrificed at somewhere over 300 nits. Unfortunately their availability is extremely limited, and prices are soaring. It is expected that they will soon disappear into a pro-only market carrying a hefty premium with their price tags.

LCD manufacturers offer two types of glass: anti-glare and glossy. Anti-glare LCDs account for more than 90% of the desktop market. These coatings reduce the glare that you may be used to from old CRTs, but they do it as the cost of dynamic range, clarity, and color vibrance. Glossy coatings increase dynamic range by a good amount but can be frustrating to use if bright lights happen to be shining right at the screen. They exhibit an excessive amount of glare in these conditions, so they should be used in rather dim but consistently lit environments for the best results. Glossy panels tend to crush darker details and exaggerate midtones.

Summing it up;

 Quote:

TN panels-vast majority of the market.

Gamers, general use (Word/Excel) who don't mind a poorer viewing angle. Less suitable for movies and poor for photo editing.

VA, PVA, MVA-

Gamers, general use (Word/Excel) who want a more stable viewing angle. OK for photo editing, although beware of color shifting. Not bad for movies, but not always great due to color shift. Good value, and the least Quality Control problems of all panels.

IPS-

Photo editors and pro's will crave this type of panel. IPS-type panels are suitable and generally better for anything else too, including gaming and general use. Some people may prefer an S-PVA for higher dynamic range but an IPS panel, due to its viewing angle characteristics, probably has a higher contrast (ability of the LCD to reliably reproduce tones and nuances). Tends to be very expensive although benefits can be visible to normal users and prone to quality control problems: read reviews!

Your Samsung 906BW is a TN panel, the other a Samsung 2253 I believe is also a TN panel. Samsung makes the panels for many Dell's, Ezio's, a few Acer's, NEC, and Sony just to mention a few.

One I'm looking at is a ViewSonic VP2130b 21 inch 8 ms S-PVA panel (made by Samsung) around $630. I need pro results and this gives me a good balance of most of the things I need.

More information than you wanted to know, but this is a board that has photographers that might want to be aware of what is on the screen in front of them is highly dependant on what they are viewing on!

[nluchau]

Thanks for breaking those terms down for me. I have never heard of AnandTech before. I normally go to Tom's Hardware. I think for what I need a monitor for the TN screen will be just fine for me. I can't justify spending over $400 on an lcd monitor. I'm not huge into photography but I love taking pictures and viewing them on a good display.

I think I'll probably go with the Samsung one I mentioned earlier. Thanks for all the information, it has been helpful.

Nick

[Dbl]

No problem on the info, I just happened to be doing some research myself on screens and had the info handy.

I currently run a Samsung and have been very happy with its performance. The one you mentioned looks like it would make a good all-purpose display. Sounds like a TN panel will work just fine for you.

[buzzsaw]

I switched to a Dell 24' Ultrasharp about six months ago and didn't do my due diligence! It arrived at my house and I was setting it up and then did I realize that my (at the time) three year old computer did NOT have the correct graphics card to drive this monitor nor a DVI plug in to maximize the picture (I think I said that right). So I was a bit bummed and went out and had a custom computer system built for my needs... yee haw! I digress... anyways, you asked a very good question and I suspect if you have an older computer it may not be capable of maximizing todays very nice monitors... I'd write down all of your computers technical info and call one of the help lines of the monitor company you are looking to buy from to ask if they will work well together... hopefully they will be able to help.

In a way its like switching your OS from XP to Vista... you'll want to make sure all of your components and after market software are compatible with Vista or you'll be doing more shopping yet. FYI.. CS3 is the only version of Photoshop that is compatible with Vista (not sure if Elements is or not).

Fun fun!