Kitchen Countertops...a few questions

[herm]

OK, we've begun looking into replacing our laminate countertops with granite or manufactured stone. I found one thread from a few months back that helped. Here, though, are some questions. Any help is appreciated.

1. What specifics should I make sure are included in any estimates we get?

2. Any recommendations on brands of sinks/faucets to get or avoid? Similarly, we would like to get away from stainless steel, but one company said porcelain and granite don't always bond well. Really?

3. How hard is it to remove existing tops by yourself? (Is there any market for used countertops?) Special note: My home improvement skills are minimal....my wife's advice to me is always 3 simple words - hire a professional.

Thanks for any help.

[sparcebag]

I'll start backwards

Look under the counter tops in each cab in the corners a diagonal 1 x corner brace,the top should be screwed on through them,from the bottom up,remove screws thats it.

No brands just look and pick whats best for you,However, in my opinion a sink mounted from below the counter top is great!No trim ring to let water through,easy wiping & cleaning.

specifics??UMM splash rail,It goes on the wall up 4-8 inches to protect moisture from wall,other than that its a pretty cut & dried job,ask for product warrenty and workmanship guarantee,dont pay in full till your satisfied, Make sure a contact Tele.number is obtained and try it before full PMT.

[polarsusd81]

Good tips sparce. Another thing to ask about is seaming. Some materials are very difficult to seam, others are much easier. That kinda depends on the layout of your kitchen more than anything. The typical galley kitchen shouldn't need any seems, though L and U shaped will obviously have them. Also, for stone countertops, if you do have seams, be sure you select personally the pieces if at all possible to get the best coloration as possible as that is a big variable.

[mr walleye]

Ask about stains on the granite or manufactured stone. some are better than others.

also stick with name brands on the faucets (DELTA, MOEN, ECT.)and

make sure the valve body is brass and not plastic.

also keep in mind that with porcelain and some other materials glasses will break if you drop them in the sink. and not with stainless. if you have small kids stainless might be the way to go.

[Redlantern]

Find out who is responsible for drilling the holes for the faucet and mounting the sink, if it's an undermount. I've run into problems with this in the past. Countertop gets delivered and installed and they had the wrong specs for the faucet. Holes too small or too large. Not good either way. Make sure they have the faucet and the sink so they know what size to drill and that the hardware under the faucet that fastens it to the countertop does not overlap the undermount sink.

[dakotakid31]

If you are going to spend the money on the upscale top dont cheapen it up with a moen or delta. KWC,ROHL,GROHE,HANSGROHE,JADO,KOHLER. Any good granite company will just need the specs of the sink(all the company's we work with do the install of the sink) and the number and placement of holes(faucet,soap dispenser,air switch)-if they dont know to drill 1 3/8" holes for the faucet they should not be installing counter tops. I know you wanted to get away from SS. But take a look at the polished SS from blanco,elkay,kohler. They look great with granite or other manufactured stone tops.

[rocky]

Herm,

I sell for and manage a fabrication facility for granite and quartz countertops about 10 minutes from you and the best suggestion I have is to stop at a fabricator with your plan to discuss all your options.

1) Make sure you have all your dimensions and note where the sinks, and cooktops opening are. also note areas that require backsplash

2) As far as sinks, most fab shops will sell a brand of stainless steel undermount sinks. Alot of the times, it will be brands that you have never heard of. The sinks that shops sell are typicaaly sold direct to the fabricators and not to the box stores so they can add a mark-up. Porcelian will bond just fine with granite. We use a mechanical fastener bolted to the granite as well as silicone to get a solid bond. We have never had a sink fall yet. Most everyone will mount an undermount sink for you. The main reason we do is because we do not want the plumber cracking the granite when mounting them.

3) Removal of existing tops is pretty simple. Most are just glued down with maybe a couple of screws. We have seen some that have been secured with construction adhesive and these require a little more work. Some companies offer tearout services (we do) while others will not touch it due to liability reasons. No market for used tops though. Hope this helps! email me if you want to ask me any more specific questions. gmkieke at charter dot net

[sparcebag]

In almost 30 years of doing this type work I've never seen a laminate counter top glued,just unscrew it herm

[mr walleye]

Dakotakid whats wrong with MOEN?

I have a MOEN Trianna in my kitchen and love it.

it looks great and if I ever need a part for it.

[Though my last MOEN was 10 years old with no problems so I don't think I will have a need for parts]

I can get them the same day at Menard's or Home Depot.

[dakotakid31]

 Originally Posted By: mr walleye

Dakotakid whats wrong with MOEN?

I have a MOEN Trianna in my kitchen and love it.

it looks great and if I ever need a part for it.

[Though my last MOEN was 10 years old with no problems so I don't think I will have a need for parts]

I can get them the same day at Menard's or Home Depot.

Before you get to offended i have a moen also,but i dont have a high end kitchen. Compare the head,hose and body of say a KWC to that Trinna and you will see the difference in a hurry. I know yours was around the $500 mark but it is a plain boring design again no offence nice faucet it just isnt very uniqe(sp?)If your going to have a high end kitchen why not get fixtures that are high end. Thier is no moen or delta that is high end. Like i said i am way way to cheap to spend even $500 (and i can get them for cost) on a faucet but i dont have the fancy kitchen.

[bgmny]

I started a post about granite countertops a couple months ago and got some good info. I went into it pretty blind and learned alot in the process. First thing to do is measure your countertops and make a rough design with measurements included and fax or E-mail it to several places for bids. Looking at a showroom is the only way to understand what you really want. The actual granite isn't that expensive, it's the custom edging, backsplash, new sink, and new fixtures that start to take its toll. I would go with a place that specializes in granite. The big box store granite that we saw was only 3/4" thick with another 3/4" added to the edge to give it the thick appearance. The granite we got was all 1 1/4" thick. Hope this helps!

[Farmboy1]

I am a general contractor by trade and if I were doing it this is what I would look for.

1. Fabricator to do all templating, verify this is in the base price. Some guys will charge extra for another trip.

2. If you are going with a sink other then an integral bowl, give them the sink and faucet while they are cutting the stone. If they screw it up then it is their problem.

3. If going with natural stone, and I can't stress this enough, DO NOT BUY FROM ANYWHERE THAT YOU CANNOT LOOK AT THE ACTUAL PIECE OF STONE YOU ARE BUYING. Most places will send you to a wholesale house (Cold Spring granite has a good one) where you can look at the actual stone. Being a natural product there are major differences in grains, veins, and coloring based on where it was removed from the quarry. Don't pick from a 2" x 2" sample.

4. Remember with natural products comes additional work down the road. I think they recomend to reseal it at 3 months, 6 months, and every year after that. Not a big deal to some, major deal to other people.

5. Verify edge detail in bids. Try to get bids apples to apples. Some guys want to get in the door and then start to nickle and dime you on stuff like this. Make sure it does not happen by doing your homework before hand. I always stress it is not always the lowest bid that is the best.

Good Luck.

[herm]

Thanks so much for all this info. It helps a ton. Now one more basic question: Is there any huge quality difference between manufactured stone and granite? As we've talked with some places (from big box to small shops) we've heard different answers. Our assessment so far is that granite looks nicer/has more character but might - stress MIGHT - chip/scratch easier than manufactured stone. And the latter generally costs more, they say.

Again, I can't stress enough my appreciation for your help.

[rocky]

Herm,

Take a key and run it across granite and then run it across engineered quartz, you will then see quickly that quartz scratches easier. Quartz is advertised as scratch "resistant" not scratch "proof". Basically what happens is that it is scratching the polyester resin that is used to make the quartz.

About the only thing that can scratch granite is another piece of granite or something harder than granite likes diamonds. That is why diamond tipped blades and pads are used in the fabrication process.

As far as chipping, granite will chip easier than quartz. Once every few of months, we will get a call that a small granite quartz piece has fell out on one of the edges. This usually happens the first month or two after the granite is installed and has settled. We simply put the chip back in and color match as needed. Very rarely do we get a call on a chip farther out than that.

Granite does tend to run a little higher than quartz, however, some shops (us included) stock some popular colors that they buy in bulk and the remnants match and they ultimately sold cheaper.

I would advise to get opinions from fabrication shops that fabricate and install both products like us and not someone who farms it out. Alot of the stores that farm it out have salespeople that sell multiple products and are not as well schooled on stone applications, they basically go by the book and not on personal experience. Call me and I would be happy to answer any more questions you have; heck I would even come over to look at your project being you are so close providing you tell me where the fish are biting 320-250-0218

[herm]

Hey Rocky, Thanks!

I'll call you yet this week.

Of course, I'm best at knowing where the fish WERE biting (where I wasn't yesterday) ... but I'm sure we can work something out! Again, I'll call. Thanks.

[reddog]

Diamond blades and bits are used in the fabrication of the quartz also. I key my Cambria all the time in a sales presentation to my customers. Most times, the only thing that is visible when I key it is residue from the key, which readily cleans off.

No, its not scratch proof, nothing is.

Frankly, I dont care what my customer chooses, If they want Granite, thats what they get, if they want Quartz. so be it. About the only thing I can guarantee to be better with the quartz(Cambria) is the fabrication. ( assuming it comes out of the factory fabrication plant, which mine does) Templating is done electronically with a PhotoTop digital camera format. With PhotoTop, Digital pictures are taken of the job using specially designed tape, with black and white dots on it, and placards with black and white dots, that are formatted to the camera. The photos, usually a minimum of 35, are taken back and uploaded into a computer program. 6 million calculations are done for each picture, to give a digital template of the job, which is then sent to the C&C equipment for fabrication. Doesnt matter if the wall is curved, bowed, out of square, PhotoTop catches it. The seamwork is impeccable.

Criteria for a Cambria seam, is the thickness of a razor blade apart, (for the seam adhesive) and a business card thickness or less in lippage.

Seam on left side of sink, in the light.

Plus, all colors ( I believe to be 30) are the same cost, so are the 6 edges.

When you compare, make sure you use comparable edge treatments also. While an ogee edge isn't an upcharge with Cambria, it can add a considerable amount to a comparable quartz product or a granite bid.

[blarkey]

For what if heard form people that do granite and manufactured stone is that the manufactured stone is by far better and won't crack as easy as granite. I would go with a silestone tops

[vikzilla]

earthstone by wilsonart, I put it it my kitchn last year and ocouldn't be happier.