Cold weather feet, cold weather hands for shooters

[Steve Foss]

Most of this stuff is applicable to hunters, anglers, bird watchers, etc, etc, etc, but since it's a photo sharing board . . . well . . . you get the idea.

I'm just going to concentrate on hands and feet, and there's plenty of room for other perspective here, so chime in!

Hands: I always put on a light pair of synthetic gloves for shooting. I dislike the neoprene gloves, as well as some of the so-called "pro" shooters cold-weather gloves because they simply are too thick for me to feel the camera controls well enough. I've done fine with those wool-feel, one-size-fits-all knit gloves from the "dollar" store, and most currently am using lightweight knit gloves from Gander that cost about $6 for two pair. They either go inside heavy choppers if I'm sitting for long periods in cold weather, or if not, they go into my pockets, and most importantly, in my pockets are always a couple of sets of dry chemical hand warmers. DC hand warmers are GGG (God's greatest gift) to photographers, for obvious reasons, and can be put in coat pockets or inside mittens if there's enough room. No photographer in winter can avoid exposing hands, even in the nice light gloves, to cold, but you don't need to have your hands out of your pockets or mittens all the time, and those hand warmers make it easy to thaw the brutal ice chunks that your fingers can turn into.

Feet: Whatever your footgear, there are two important rules. 1. NO COTTON SOCKS! 2. Leave room for your foot to move.

1. Cotton holds moisture against your foot, and that means a cold foot in cold weather. If you're walking, your feet are sweating, and they're actually sweating sometimes even if you're not walking. Cotton keeps that moisture against your skin, a sure recipe for cold feet eventually. I recommend to all my ice fishing and photography clients that they wear a light liner sock of polypro or sheer merino wool or silk against their foot, which wicks moisture away from the skin and retains insulating ability, followed by either a medium weight wool or wool-synthetic blend sock and, if the weather is cold enough, a heavy wool or wool-synthetic blend outer sock. So that's potentially three layers of sock. For running around in a vehicle and getting in and out frequently, the insulation needs are less stern, and the two-layer deal is enough. If one is doing a lot of walking and sitting out in the cold weather, however, the three-sock layer is best.

2. However, if you don't have footwear large enough inside, it's better to wear a single layer of sock than to try to pack two or three layers of sock into a too-small boot. Impeding circulation is a good way to guarantee cold feet.

Well, that's my $.02!

[finnbay]

Good info, Steve. I've spent many a cold day both in and outside of the BWCA. Sorel pacs have always been my boot of choice because they have allowed what you are talking about as to layers and movement allowance. I have always worn my Sorels loose fitting because the lessons of tightly sqeezed feet were learned early. Weight was always something we talked about on those trips because it is the one drawback to Sorels. One trip 25 years ago, a buddy of mine brought just a pair of pack liners and some old rubber button overshoes - "to try out". His feet stayed warm all day and he didn't have to slug out to his tip ups when it popped. Unfortunately, none of us were bright enough to come up with a marketable solution like Patti Steger did with her mukluks. Unless you are in very wet conditions, or you need support over a long walk, I think this is the best footwear you can have to wear over your sock formula.

[Steve Foss]

Ken, I totally agree that the principles Patti got from the Arctic natives for their mukluks are the best there are. Plenty of movement allowed with those moosehide outers with wool/felt liners and insoles. And light as a feather.

And I also agree that, as long as total waterproofing and strong instep support (as in long hikes) aren't needed, it's the best footwear on the market. They can be almost completely waterproofed with the right type of sprays, and I've fished for two solid days and two overnights in deep slush in -20 in those muks, and while water eventually came in, my feet were still toasty because of the wool liners (just any Pac boot liners) and the wool socks I was wearing. Wool, as we all know, insulates wonderfully when wet.

I do, however, have a high arch, so making long treks in the muks (my longest in them was over 10 miles) is NOT recommended for folks like me.

Also, the cost is quite high for them, and now they won't re-dip the soles when the rubber wears out, so once that happens and they lose that rubber over time, you either have to just be OK with water getting in easier, or apply your own rubberized layer or buy a new pair.

And that's too bad. I've had this pair for five years, and the rubber is wearing off. I'd gladly pay to have them re-dipped, but as it stands now, when they go through this winter I'll be chucking them in the corner and not buying another pair because I can't afford another pair. I'd happily keep trumpeting to the world the great utility of these muks, but if the company won't support them, what's the point?

[MN Shutterbug]

OK, I believe I'm OK in the hand and pinky dept., but my feet may be another story. I have some Gortex Rockies with 600 grams of thinsulate insulation. They are warm, but they are also a little snug fitting with just my cotton socks. When I bought them, I never took into consideration that I may want to add more or heavier socks down the road. Wool socks are on my Christmas list.

Ken, it sounds like you would recommend sorels if it wasn't for their weight. Do you have any other suggestions?

[Steve Foss]

X-T, after a few more posts I'm just going to quit asking for your shoe size!

I've got a great pair of wonderfully warm winter pac-style boots (Irish Setters) that I rarely wore because I had three sets of winter boots already when I got them as a gift. Toasty, they are. Fit your feet, they could. Take them away with you, you might!

[finnbay]

Steve, I guess I was unaware that they weren't redipping any more. That's too bad. Our formula for daytripping or camping in the BWCA was to ski in (possible most of the time) with ski boots, then wear the pacs around camp until we skiied out. Pacs made up a good share of the weight on the trip (especially day trips when we carried packs on our back) and I wish I had my muks twenty years ago to use like that. Used as camp boots, they should last a long time. They are pricey. I have a pair of the canvas top basics and they still are a little more than double what a good pair of Sorels cost. Surprised that someone hasn't come up with a viable alternative at a lower cost.

[finnbay]

Xt, I still have two sets of Sorels. I'll never be without a pair. I use 'em with snowshoes (muks wouldn't hold up to that) and for kickin' around the yard and will still prefer them if I think standin' on the ice is going to be wet. I would not buy a cheap pair, though. Irish Setter is a good brand, too. I picked an off brand up one time on sale for about $25 and they didn't last the winter before the seams all came apart. My old Sorels are fifteen years old with a couple of patches but still are very usable.

I'll wear my muks down to the bog on our trip, but the pacs will be in the back of the car (unless there's not enough room for stfcatfish to ride inside).

[enclak]

I agree with the others, great information. Usually the worst thing in the winter is the wind, normally the temperatures aren't actually that bad, but the ongoing Minnesota winds always make things miserable outside. I'm actually pretty warm-blooded myself, so the cold doesn't bother me as bad as it does some people.

One somewhat off-topic question for you, Steve (if you get the time):

Any advice on using a camera in the winter time, outside? I've got a Canon Rebel XT (otherwise known as a '350D'). The manual said not to use it below 32'F (which is like most of our winter), and my 8 Gb Seagate CF card didn't say anything about temperature (I've read CF cards are far more sensitive to the cold than the cameras are.) It's just a real bummer not being able to take pictures and practice in the winter time, but I do not want to jeopardize the expensive equipment.

[Steve Foss]

enclak, look on this very board for a thread about cold weather camera/lens care. It had been stickied to the top until I unstickied it today, so you may have to look back a page or so to find it, but it's full of good ways to keep your gear functioning in the cold.

[finnbay]

enclak,

Steve may beat me to the punch here if he's watching in, but with a little care you can use your camera in some pretty cold temps. There was a thread not too long ago on this, but basically, keep your batteries warm and you camera inside your coat when not shooting (tough with a 600 mm I know). Bottom line, Steve and I have shot skiing together at temps below 0 and windchills that were really nasty. Canon will tell you (I know, I called 'em) not to use them below 40 degrees but that's just for there own protection IMO.

[mmeyer]

Great tips for us cold blooded people! Thanks. I found something for my hands last year when I was getting ready for muzzleloader season. They are mittens with a thin liner glove that you can wear alone. The best part is there is a zipper on the mitten by the trigger finger so you can stick that puppy out when you need to shoot and stick it back in when you don't. I put in hand warmers also. They really saved me when it was really cold out hunting and I have tried them this year out shooting photos.

Thanks again for the tips.

Mike

[Steve Foss]

No prob, MM.

I should also add couple other tips. It seems stupid to say that if you keep your head warm you'll keep your feet and hands warm, but it's true. The vast majority of body heat is lost through all the holes in your head (and no, I don't just mean Finns! ), and the more heat you can keep in, the better off your hands and feet will be.

So in cold weather wear a hat you can pull down over your ears. Even a baseball style cap is OK as long as you have a hood you can pull up over it. When shooting, especially on a sunny day, it's nice to have a cap with a brim, and the baseball cap with a hoody sweatshirt will keep your head a lot warmer than no cover at all.

[finnbay]

Quote:

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The vast majority of body heat is lost through all the holes in your head (and no, I don't just mean Finns!

),

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Hey! Now, now. There's a reason why us Finns have so many holes in our heads! It's left over from where our hair used to be! All the more reason to wear something warm on top of the dome!

[MN Shutterbug]

Steve, are the hand warmers you're referring to, the ones that sell for around a buck, and once opened, activate and put out heat for around 8 hours? Or, are you talking about something more sophisticated? Also, if the cheap ones, what brand do you use? Just like everything, there has to be some that are better than others?

Thanks much for the tips.

[Paul]

I spend all day outside year round and I can offer a few suggestions.

#1) Get some really good dry skin hand lotion. YOur going to need it after a day or two in the cold using your bare hands. If you are not used to it, or even if you are (like myself) you may still have the problem (like myself) of cracking skin on your finger tips. It really hurts when your finger tips are so cracked you can;t button your pants without writing in pain.

#2.) Wear lots of thin layers. To work I were on a daily basis: Under Armour nylon/silk long underwear bottoms, covered with a loose pair of jeans. I wear a short Sleeved tee shirt under a nice heavy loose fitting pullover hoodie seatshirt. I then use a Carhart Heavy-Weight zip up sweat shirt with hood, cover that with the Carhart Extremes, jacket, (which is completely windproof, and water proof).

3.) Carry Extra socks and extra hat with you. You will perspire out your head and if your hat gets wet from walking, hiking etc you head is cold. In the event your shoes and socks get wet a dry pair will at least get you back to your vehicle.

4.) If driving to location: Try not to wear your boots in the vehicle, wear some slippers or tennis shoes and put on boots when you arrive. IF your feet sweat before you get there you will not be there long. Or Drive with the heat off.

5.) Gloves, I think these were coverd in earlier posts. ON really cold days -20 to -40 I will wear a handwarmer around my waist that looks like a long tube sock, you can take your hands out of your existing gloves and place both hands in side and use eahc other to warm themselves or throw a disposable hand warmer in side (if you dont mind blowing a buck everytime you hands get cold.)

6.) Bare SKin: Should be covered when it is windy or below zero. Frost bite may only hurt for a few days but after you get bit once you feel it worse next year and your tolerance goes down. I will wear a nylon breatable baklava that wraps around neck and covers cheeks, nose, mouth and throat. It has room for breathing both through mouth and nose. IF you are wearing Glasses, Breathing through your nose will help prevent fogging of your glasses.

7.) Carry 2 of everyting in your truck, underseat, ect. If is much easier to go back to car and get dry or replacement than to give up a good hike because you dropped your gloves in the river when the ice broke and you tried to save yoru camera and said the heck with your gloves.

I hoped this helps people who are other wise not used to being in the cold. I have spent many unrecoverable days of my life stading in the -20 with -40 windchill in North Dakota were there is nothing between Fargo and the North Pole but a barbed wire fence which washed away with the '97 flood.

[finnbay]

All good tips. Three and four especially cover territory not yet talked about here. Thanks Paul!