Small Mouth Cutoff????????????????????????????????????

[Cabela10]

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And it might eliminate dead fish at tournament weigh sights, which has been getting such bad publicity lately.

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Have you seen dead bass at weigh sites? I personally haven't seen any dead fish after a weigh-in. I believe this to be a myth.

[RK]

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RK, I read your post with great interest. I have read much of Mr.Pyzers work, along with Dr.Ridgeway and Mr.Shuters, these men are true pioneers in the understanding of smallmouth bass.

In your post you mentioned the vulnerability of fall smallmouth, I to have seen way to many stringers of big bass destined to be chopped up.

But my question is at what point in the season do you feel it unfair or dangerous to the fishery to CPR these fish, I don't mean harvest, definitely not harvest. If you are not fishing too deep to cause bladder problems or using methods that may cause hooking mortality, do you see this as a problem?

Some of my best memories in a boat have been in the fall chasing big smallies and something I look forward to all year, not that I wouldn't give it up in a heartbeat, IF I believed there was harm being done....P.S. You, Chuck, and I should go fishing.

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Hey Dan-o

I've read quite a bit of Ridgeway's research too. He's done some amazing stuff with smallies.

From what I've read, smallies are active right up until about ice up, and then pretty much shut it down after that. One of the pieces Pyzer did for Stange a few years back was basically about when to leave smallmouth alone... I'll have to try to dig it out. If I can't find it, I'll call Gord. Haven't talked to him in a while anyhow.

A lot of the concern for fall and winter smallmouths actually has to do with the effect it can have eventual spawners. According to some of the research Ridgeway has done, at least in some northern populations, only 30% of the mature males actually spawn. What's interesting (freaking fascinating actually) is that the eventual spawners are predetermined the year before by some unknown mechanism. But they feed more than the freeloaders, and are more fit going into winter. If one of those spawners is removed, caught after they've gone dormant and stopped feeding, or transported a long ways from their wintering area, another male won't take their place. What's more, big bass - the big bull males - build nests and spawn earlier than smaller males. So if larger bass are removed during the fall (or caught off their beds in the spring) the later spawning males - younger, smaller, and less experienced at nest building and guarding - are the ones on whom the year class is depending. Smallmouth fry MUST reach 2.5 inches by fall, or they don't survive the first winter. So a few days' growing season is critical. Early spawning, larger males have a better chance of having their offspring reach that 2.5" size.

I love fishing smallies in the fall too, and from what I've read and heard from biologists, it's not detrimental to do so as long as you aren't moving the fish away from their wintering habitat. Summer smallies can return to their home ranges from quite a distance, say, after having been released during a tournament, and be none the worse for wear, but in late fall, they spend energy looking for home rather than feeding and storing energy for a period of winter dormancy.

All in all, catching them off the beds in the spring is likely far more detrimental (even if a nest-guarding male is returned to the nest in 2 minutes, they still abandon the nest more than half the time). Unless of course you're talking about catching them out of water deep enough to cause swim bladder problems, or something like that.

This discussion sort of has me thinking about a couple other questions along the same lines. I'll maybe call Gord this weekend and report back.

And yeah, the three of us need to get together. Been way too long. The family spent a weekend at Craven's a couple weeks ago, and we spent an afternoon swimming on Long Lake point - brought back some memories... I'm actually working on a project with Charlie, Scott and Marty, so I'll be up that way some this fall. I'll track you down

Cheers,

Rob Kimm

[DaveC]

Leave it to a "guide" to take a great post and use it to bash tournaments. At no time have I ever heard of bass tournaments being against the early caught and release season. I have however met many guides that are more than happy to have a smallmouth shore launch for there clients (good for them).

I was enjoying the great information about the habits of smallmouths. It only takes one or two haters to ruin a great post.

[ocf1]

Guide, huh, please explain.

[Deitz Dittrich]

Dave- might agree, I thought that comment was maybe a tad harsh... I have thoughts of dusting the 2 comments and let them lie, but I would like to give him a chance to defend himself.

I really dont think this is a guide /tournament person issue.. as many of my friends who are guides, are also tournament fishermen... When smallies are concerned, I too would support a big fish tournament type format, or... like RK says, leave em as is.. Largies seem to reproduce with much more success.

[DaveC]

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Sledneck,

that would turn the tournaments into a big-fish only format, that would be SWEET!

And it might eliminate dead fish at tournament weigh sights, which has been getting such bad publicity lately.

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[Boedigheimer]

Whoa! Didn't expect that response!

Bobby and Dave, I apologize for sending the wrong message here. I am definitely NOT against tournaments in any way shape or form. I haved fished tournaments, hope to fish lots more and learn a ton while doing so. Its very clear to me that competition drives the industry.

I have never seen dead bass after any tournament that I have fished, my statements came after reading about it in a couple of publications, not a myth, just what I have read. I geuss I shouldn't make comments about things I have not personally witnessed, once again, I apologize.

And just because I am a guide it doesn't classify me as a 'hater'. The truth is, my need to be on the water, the cost of gasoline, and a fondness for fishing with new people is the reason I guide.

P.S. Deitz, thanks for giving me a chance to defend myself.

[ocf1]

Thanks for clarifing, I have neither fished or lived in minnesota very long BUT I have not heard anthing about smallmouth decline. This would leave me to think this is working and we shouldnt be worrying. I am not against tournaments, i absolutely love them, but you would think that to somepeople that SM are their Favorite meat. Its like eating what your favorite meat is. If it isnt depleting the resource, go for it! Im all for eating fish. I think that sometimes we as humans get TO defensive and dont want anything but increase in population in our favorite lakes, even if its a great fishery already. Theres a point where people will want to eat the fish, and after all thats how fishing came about.

Just some thoughts, I know some of you will find this offensive, but go ahead and eat this thing apart.

Zach.

[primetime49]

ocf1,We started 4 fish no cull with reentry tournaments this year to make sure smaller fish were immediatly returned and with 3 oppurtunitys to bring in fish for each boat in a day hopefully no fish was boat bound for a whole day.

did it work yes,in 2 tournaments one team each time got 1st and 3rd and another got 2nd and 4th.

watching any type of bass tournament this year i only saw one dead bass total from any type of rules.This is from 7 total tournaments;seems that bass fishermen are very carefull with these fish.

Walleye tourneys even as early as June we have seen 75 to 90 percent mortality from all tourneys.These walleyes are left floating in lake here and a lot of controversy comes from it from everybody and it gets directed at all species of fishermen.