falling through...

[rap]

well it's time to start hitting the early ice which can be a dangerous thing as everyone knows... just in case someone would fall through i thought we could start a thread on tips on how to get out of the water after falling in... anyone fall through ever and find something helpful on how to get out? i carry two big nails in my pockets to grip the ice, whistle around my neck(when i remember!), and carry a life jacket in my trap(i probably should have it on!)... anyone know who makes those picks that are made to help you get out of the ice? anyone have any tips when falling through on foot or vehicle???

[Crappie Kid]

If you dont have anything like ice picks or a lifevest always remember to turn on your back and kick like a backfloat to get back on the ice. It is easier to get out this way. But first let's use our heads and don't venture on the ice too early.

[Greg Clusiau]

I've fallen through a few times back in my old trapping days. I was young and it must of been sheer adrenalin that had me flying out of that hole in a mili-second. The next thing I knew, I was standing on the ice, next to a big hole. I doubt that I would be able to do that again.

A few years back, I had an actual life or death situation looking me in the face when my son-in-law went down in Black Bay on Rainy Lake. It was late-ice and when he went to check out a tip-up (that had disappeared) he went through. I watched, as if in slow motion. He was wearing a float-coat (camo duck hunting jacket that doubles as a life vest). It kept him from going all the way under but the extreme coldness of the water took the breath out of him. I had to holler at him to get his attention. So don't think your safe just because you have a life vest on. When I had his attention, I tossed a rope with a hook on the end of it, which luckily landed about a foot away. I had to holler at him to grab the rope (again, the attention thing). Luckily I was wearing ice
cleats because I was able to lay back on the ice and pull for all I was worth, while he kicked his feet. He weighs 225 pounds and I 160 pounds. Once he was out of the ice, listening to my instructions, he rolled away from the hole and was finally safe.

If it wasn't for a few outdoor articles that I wrote on this exact scenario, I'm not sure if I would of got him out that easy, and believe me, it wasn't easy at all. He was **** near in shock from the cold water.

During the first ice period, or late, rotten ice like we were on, all I can say is: if you're bound and determined to go fishing, #1 - go with a partner, #2 - bring a length of rope, #3 - wear some type of floatation vest/jacket, #4 - wear ice picks (he wasn't wearing any and from what I witnessed, they wouldn't have helped because of his state), #5 - when trying to get out, kick your feet, like your swimming, #6 - when out, roll away from the danger spot, #7 - get off the lake as soon as possible and change into some warm clothes.

We, by the way, barely made it off the lake because all the ice went to hell while we were fishing. It was close.

------------------
Jaw Breaker Guide Service
Phone: 218 778-0087
[email protected]
http://fishtec.com/guide.htm

[Steve Foss]

Wise words, Greg.

I made my own ice spikes by cutting two 10-inch lengths of 3/4 inch wooden dowel. Drill a hole in each end of both. Cut the heads off two 16-penny spikes. Drive them back up into the holes, one into each dowell, with the sharp end sticking out about an inch. In the remaining hole in each dowel, screw in an eye hook. Tie clothesline through the eyehooks long enough to thread through your sleeves so the dowels dangle out the cuffs.

Wearing these is a hassle, but it cost about $4 to make them. Luckily, I haven't had to use them yet. I'd hate to have to test my life insurance. It might prove I really AM worth more dead than alive to my family.

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Steve Foss
Superior, Wis.
[email protected]

[Guest]

I don't recommend ever driving on the ice, if it can be avoided, putting a vehicle through the ice is a very serious matter, complete with a whole set of complications, and expenses, that no-one really needs to have happen. It does a body good to take a little walk, portables pull fairly well by hand, unless there is a depth of new fallen snow, then call a buddy to go with and help pull. I would never be the first to drive out, leave that to a resort owner's plow truck, if a one ton truck with a plow and tow-rig can drive on it, then I would consider following, also, slush holes and pressure ridges can be very dangerous.

As far as self rescue devices, a 50-100' length of rope tied around the upper chest, and dragged behind you is a good idea for venturing on early ice, like you mentioned, a loud signal whistle is better than trying to yell for help while unexpectedly bathing in near freezing water. There are some commercial ice-grips available, or purchase some barn spikes (big nails) from the hardware store, and some 1 1/2" dia dowel, cut the dowel 1/2" shorter than the lenth of the spikes drill a hole just slightly larger than the diameter of the nail lenthwise, insert the nail so the pointed tip protrudes and epoxy. then drill a smaller hole through the head end, and triple knot a lenth of sash cord though each, run the cord up one sleeve over your back and down the other sleeve of your jacket, and the homemade ice-grippers are at the ready as you are venturing across untested ice, don't even think about looking foolish with these dangling at the ready, it just shows that you are smart, you're thinking about getting out of an unforeseen cold dip as soon as possible. I also like to stop and drill a hole occasionally, to measure the ice thickness for reassurance, or at least kick the snow out of the way and verify by eyeballing a crack in the ice. Some prefer to probe with a chisel, perhaps an even better method. More importantly, dont chance ice that just isn't ready, while it is said that the early bird gets the worm, the iceangler that ventures out too early, may get an ice bath or wind up dead, there isn't a fish swimming in Minnesota that is worth that, wait a little bit and there will still be plently of excellent early ice action. As a rule of thumb, I like a good 3-4" of good solid hard clear ice before I venture out, that means several nights of low teens or single digit temps, with the days not rising above freezing, but use your best judgement, local ice conditions may vary, even after a long spell of cold temps. I am seldom the first guy out, but I don't mind waiting an extra day our two for safety sake, I am simply not going to take a chance for a couple of fish.

Like you mentioned, WEARING a PFD on early ice is a good idea, wear it under your jacket, where it will provide added bouyancy and insulation for your bodies core, both which my save your life.

Should you happen to go through the ice, DO NOT PANIC! you will want to, unless you are a member of the local polar bear club, you will immediatly be extremely uncomfortable, relax, even out your breathing, form a plan and put it in action FAST!, swim if neccesary to the edge of the ice, remember your ice-claws, while kicking like a swimmer with your feet reach out and imbed the claws into the ice, attempt to drag yourself horizontally across the ice untill you are several feet away from the broken ice, as your prone position will more evenly distribute your weight, and hopefully prevent a reoccurance of the breakthrough. Now your clothing perhaps is entirely soaked, if the air temperature is low, and worse if there is wind, you are still not out of danger, try to establish your original trail and follow this back to shore, don't be tempted to set a new course across the ice, as another dip could spell the end, get back to the shelter of your vehicle or a nearby house with obvious signs of someone home. If the vehicle is your closest haven, hopefully you can retrieve your keys and start the engine, remove all wet clothing, change into the extra set you keep for just in case, warm up, drive home, and consider yourself to be the luckiest b@st@r& alive!

Every year there are tragic events on the early ice, after that, do not let down your guard, as pressure ridges and slush holes, (oh yeah, watch out for skimmed over spear holes as well) claim lives later in the season. Worst of all, is the late ice season, ice conditions can degrade and become very hazardous extremely rapidly. Once ice is "honeycombed" and mushy, just stay off it, go home and haul out your open water gear, as that season is just a week or two away at that point.

It is always best to get out with a buddy, or at least let someone know where you are going. The important thing is to get out of the water as quickly as possible, the cold water immediately begins chilling the body, as hypothermia sets in, the victim will lose coordination and grip strength, after a few minutes, a self rescue is nearly impossible, hopefully they have found the whistle, begin signalling with a series of three distinct loud blasts on the whistle, a universal distress signal, cross your legs and pull them close to the chest to reduce surface area and slow cooling, this may only buy you a few seconds, but that may be all the time you need, continue attempting to signal with the whistle, hopefully you will be spotted soon after going in.

To attempt to rescue someone who has fallen through the ice, do not be tempted to approach the broken ice, call or yell for additional help immediately, throw a rope, or reach out with a tree branch or other object, if the victim is unable to grasp, and there are enough rescuers, form a human chain in the prone position and attempt to slide the person from the water onto the ice.

DISCLAIMER; the above is just random ramblings of an ice angler with a healthy respect for thin ice and fear of near freezing water, the above is by no means a comprehensive ice rescue plan. Always use your own best judgement when encountering frozen water, particularly when attempting a rescue, many times in water rescue situations, the victim survives and a rescuer drowns, know your limitations and abilities before attempting a rescue. Sometimes the greatest aid a witness can render for a victim it to call for help, sooner rather than later. There is no such thing as "safe" ice!

Parents, PLEASE! always ensure that children are well supervised near water, liquid or frozen, one gallon or fifty million.

Parents of children and teenagers with snowmobiles and ATVs, PLEASE! talk with them about the dangers of operating on thin ice.

[Cyberfish]

I guess if you insist on venturing out on thin ice, you could get one of those survival suits.
It would keep you warm and dry and afloat when you break through, giving you plenty of time to figure out how to get out, or wait for someone to fish ya out.

My stratedgy this year is to fish the river in my boat, until the ice on the lakes is at least 8 inches thick.

Cyb

[nunzio]

As Coldone pointed out DON"T PANIC!! I you panic and start thrashing around two things will happen.
1)You will end up with a larger hole with more broken ice,
2)You will exhaust yourself. The cold water is doing everything it can to sap your strenght, don't help it.

You need to keep your head, especially if you are alone.
If you go out on early ice be prepared and be carefull.

-nunzio

[Guest]

A easy way to store a safety rope is pick up one of them cheap electrical cord reels ($4-7?).

Tie the rope off securely to the reel and wind up the rope and tie a large loop on the other end so you have a fast way to secure the rope around you or a stationary object. At the reel end of the spool you can also add a couple of smaller loops to work as hand holds for the victim to loop around their hands.

The weight of the reel and the rope will allow it to be thrown easily if needed. The worst thing is to find out your rescue rope is all balled up and worthless when needed, the reel prevents this very well.

Seconds count, this tool is cheap and easy to carry and store.

------------------
Backwater Eddy..><sUMo>

Backwater Guiding
"Ed on the RED"
(701)-281-2300
[email protected]
http://ed-carlson.fishingbuddy.com

[Guest]

Another danger of the ice, is the lack of common sense of others. Late last January I was on a Carver County lake, walking out to punch a few holes. I got out to my spot, punched a few holes, then realized I left the bait back in the car. I went trudging back across the lake, I was pretty much sticking to my original trail. There was a lot of brush on the ice, either marking spots or spear holes, so I made sure to stay away. The next thing I know I am in the water, instinct must have taken over as the next thing I remember I was on the ice. I scooted on my belly for about ten feet, then slowly stood up. When I turned around to look where I fell, funny if it wasn't a perfectly square hole that I made. Some joker moved his spear house and didn't mark the gaping hole in the ice. There had been a dusting of snow the night before, so there was no way to tell this trap was there. If any of you guys spearfish, PLEASE mark your holes clearly when you move your house.

[Guest]

I've fallen through twice. the first time tring to help a guy I was fishing with to get out. It was late ice. While tring to pull him out the ice under me gave way. I told him he was now on his own. after haveing the ice break 3 times tring to get out I got to where it held. Floating even with the ice. (my mickeys made this easy) I rolled on to the ice and away from the hole. My buddy followed suit and we high tailed it to the truck. Our layered clothing made us quite bouyant. We were wet only from our arm pits down. The second time was on the lake I live on I was 200 yrds from shore checked the ice 3 times on the way out. Suddenly I was going down. I threw my auger, pole, vex, and minnow bucket out ahead of me. I caught myself with my arms, to my amazment the the ice all around me was solid. I could see 3 guys about 300yrds off to my right, to far away to hear me if I yelled. So I pushed myself up and out of the hole. I stood back and looked at the hole in the ice. It was just big enough for me to fit in. To small to be a spearing hole, to deep of water to be blamed on a spring. I grabbed my gear and ran for home. The ice is never " safe "

[rap]

i bought some "pick-o-lifes" last week for 9 dollars. they are nice because the points have covers over them that retract when you apply pressure, so you don't need to worry about those things tearing your clothes up...

[Hookmaster]

I fell through two winters ago on late ice, Mar. 2, just west of Minneapolis. Even though this was late ice calendar-wise, the ice was still over two feet thick. There was the “solid” ice, then 3-4 inches of slush on top, then a 1-inch crust of ice, then the remaining couple of inches of snow. It was the eighth day of warm weather (mid-forties) so a lot of the snow had melted. I had drilled many holes searching for crappie and had broken through the crust layer several times. A few of the times my foot went further down and I thought it was an old hole. I was moving to a new hole and stepped behind my Otter to reposition it and I broke through the crust layer and kept on going. This was over 22 feet of water. It was the best adrenaline rush I’ve had in years. I fell forward and to the side so my upper body caught the edge of the hole and I rolled out. I stood up and stared at the black hole for a while. I took my hand auger and checked how big the hole was and it was about 2 ½ feet in diameter. Even though the flasher had a lot of fish on it, I figured I had dodged a bullet and gathered my stuff and went in. I ruled out a spring being that depth of water, so I think it was either from a school of carp or my main opinion is that it was a drain hole for all of the water on top of the ice. This area was next to a snowmobile trail that crossed the lake. I think the water collected there because it couldn’t spread out further, so once the water found a crack to drain into the lake it open up quickly. I have seen freshly drilled 8-inch holes open up to a 5-gallon bucket size over 3-4 hours after draining an area of water on top of the ice. I’ve used up 4 or 5 of my nine lives now.

[icemaster]

Coldone is right about driving on the ice. it is dangerous. a couple years back my uncle drove his truck on what he thought was 18 inches of ice and parked near the shore. before he knew it his truck was in the lake and he was walking. he went through hell getting it out and refuses to drive on the ice any more.
not a good thing

[This message has been edited by icemaster (edited 12-01-2002).]

[Cyberfish]

I would only do it if there was well used roads, like on red lake, where its too far to walk.

Cyb

[Guest]

I fell through 2 feet of ice (softspot)over 25' of water while pulling my portable on a 12' rope around my waist. I bounced up enough to get my hip on the edge and pull myself out. Just as I got out the icefishing house filled the hole completely! Later I found it was an area with springs and carp. Two combinations that will keep me away forever while on the ice. If you ever fish LongLake in NewBrighton, MN. Please Please stay away from the NW corner of the main lake. Every year a car and snowmobile goes through and often some poor unsuspecing soul on x-country skiis. I called the city and they just ho-hummed about putting some kind of sign at the public access. Someone's going to lose a life there, if not already. I almost became a statistic. No kidding..