Dogs killed by traps

[bennybear]

I have heard several horror stories about dogs being killed by conibear traps and cable snares. Has anyone had any success avoiding these things?

One of my dogs was nearly killed by a kill snare last winter, and was already unconscious when I found him.

I am just thankfull it was not a conibear as he would have been killed outright. I know racoon trappers put conibears on trails and fence openings and use 5 gallon buckets with conibears inside. I have friends that have had dogs killed by conibears. I would just avoid hunting during trapping season but it runs from mid October until late March for coons and year around for Coyotes.

[Ryan Becklund]

To my knowledge snaring is only legal when the loop is half submerged which would be for beaver but I could be wrong. I have had my lab get into a conibear in a bucket and it was not a pretty sight. Luckily he had a big mellon and only got his nose in it. I think traping is one of the best methods...really only methods ....to get the varmits that kill the pheasants and the ducks so it is something as hunters we just need to be careful about.

I am sorry to hear about your dog. Hope he is well!

[bennybear]

Hey thats good news, I have a big headed male lab myself. Thats the first dog I've heard of surviving a conibear. The dogs getting killed are mostly GSP's, pointers, and smaller labs. After the first time my dog was caught in a snare I checked the regs and they are legal. They were not tagged like the law says though. After my dog got caught the second time and nearly died, I just quite hunting all together.

A couple of weeks ago my wife heard a dog barking in the woods and there was a female chocolate lab caughtin a snare right in front of her back legs. I don't know how long she was there. She was dehydrated and looked really sore but I'm sure she'll be ok. Her owner was glad to get her back.

Slayer, I catfish down near Morton and Franklin. Do you ever fish Flatheads?

[Ryan Becklund]

Yes I fish flatheads. used to quite often but past couple years just a couple times a year. Do you know Duane Mertens?

I have talked to a couple of the fire dept members from danube...u one of them?

[Bassboy1645]

a 220 connibear shouldnt catch big dogs....the 330's are illegal to use on land...If ur certain that its a 330 that catches ur dog or If you find one I suggest you contact the DNR and give them the tag info on it or report it if its not tagged. Dont mess with it though because its illegal to mess with traps unless authorized by a co or the owner of the trap.

[gorrilla]

I haven't trapped for years so excuse my lack of clarity on this one, but I thought that land snares weren't legal in the the Southern MN trapping zone... Only the north.

If I'm wrong, let me know and quote the pages of the rules to clarify...

[Ryan Becklund]

Thats what I thought also....would be nice to clarify.

[FlyingV]

Snares are legal statewide now, from Dec 1st to March 31st with some other restrictions. You can read them on page 52 of the Hunting Regulations Book. And, they can be set on dry land for all fur bearing animals. There are height restrictions for the loop though, to to prevent deer from getting caught.

I hate to see a dog get caught in any type of trap. But traps are a very necessary tool for wildlife management and their use needs to be defended as much as our right to bear arms.

That said, trappers also need to use good judgement on where they set their traps, whether they have the right or not. And dog owners, need to use good judgement on how far away they let their dogs roam. Many counties have leash laws, laws ignored by many dog owners...Most dogs, left alone will always end up where they don't belong. That is just their nature.

As for 220 conibears killing medium to large dogs immediately or even quickly, I doubt it would happen. I trapped some raccoons this fall about 200 feet behind my cabin where I have a deer feeder. I watched from my window as 2 raccoons actually got caught in the traps. They put up quite a struggle for about 5 minutes before they actually stopped moving much, then they kicked for awhile. I wasn't really pleased with this as I always thought that death was immediate using these traps. I still believe in their use though.

When I'm hunting, my dogs are never more then a minute away from me. I know where they are all the time.

Hunters with dogs should take the time to check out all traps at a local sporting goods store and see how they operate, so they are ready when it happens. And buy a multi-tool like a Leatherman and have it on you. It may come in handy if your dog gets caught in a snare.

[gorrilla]

My previous post was incorrect due to reading the snaring rules incorrectly. Sorry for getting all whipped up again...

I just hate decent trappers getting all the blame in these situations. According to page 53 of this year's regs, only submerged water sets are legal in the Farmland zone. From December 1 to March 31 though, snares can be set on land there except on public land, road rights of way, or in fence lines along road rights of way. So if someone is getting their dog caught in snares, why aren't they communicating with the landowner and hearing there is a trapper allowed on the land as well. Often times its someone who has a dog that isn't supervised or a hound that is on property they don't have permission on.

Legal trappers aren't the problems, its (CONTACT ADMIN PLEASE) like usual. Funny how everyone jumps to blame the trappers first though.

All you guys are doing is ruining the credibility of ALL outdoor sports...

Just because someone in orange shoots a cow during November, should we say all hunters are too blame?

Obviously its just the dumb poacher who did the act right.?.?

Why drag down all the good sportsmen along the way?

Edited by gorrilla (04/20/07 07:15 PM)

[foxhunter]

garrila, snares are legal on land in the southwest zone after dec 1. before that they can only be set as a waterset. if you want to reread the regs heres a link.http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/rlp/regulations/hunting/2006/full_regs.pdf

[bennybear]

I don't want to get into a debate here. The two times my dog was snared happened out on large sloughts with "navagatable water access", actually ice access bordered by private land which I had permission to hunt. The landowner had not given permission to set them out in the cattails.

I am interested mostly in finding someone that has had some success in training a dog to avoid traps. When the fur prices were high years ago and traps were all over you could train a dog to avoid a legholds relatively well. Mostly fox traps. I'm not sure if the dog avoided the scent of the trap, the fox urine or the odor of dug up dirt but they would only get caught once then would not go near another trap.

[bennybear]

Slayer,

Is that the same Duane M that used to have a diesel shop with his brother several years ago in Olivia? I know a few guys from DFD, but I am not a member. A good bunch of guys for sure.

[Ryan Becklund]

yep same one

[Johnny_Namakan]

Holy cow gorilla! Take a couple deep breaths. Don't start saying "all of you are ruing the credibility of all outdoor sports". That's talk. The post was started by someone asking how to avoid these things and what to do if caught in one, and everybody's reply was civil and legitimate. Have you ever heard the phrase " a few bad apples can spoil the whole bunch."? that's because it's true. Bad news travels much faster than good news, so it's up to the sportsmen that have the privilege, not the RIGHT, to trap to do so in a responsible manner to protect that privelege. Nobody bad mouthed trappers so take a step back buddy! You are right by saying it's the (Contact Us Please) that cause the problem, but the thing is, there are too many (Contact Us Please) out there. During my travels in the woods I run into more of the (Contact Us Please) than the ethical hunters/trappers so that's of definite concern to me and many others.

[walleye101]

Johnny,

I'm sure gorrila is still worked up over the rather lenthy discussion on this topic on the adjacent Hunting Forum, Comments to the DNR

I do not intend to resume that whole debate here, but since this is the Hunting Dog Forum it is in everyone's best interest to be knowledgable about this subject. As both a trapper and dog owner I have some knowledge and perspective from both sides of this issue.

Hunters that hunt with dogs know it is not as simple as "properly supervising your dog". Anyone who runs hounds knows that there are many times that they will be working well out of your sight when they are hunting properly. Same goes for how many good bird dogs hunt, specifically pointing breeds.

Those who hunt dogs need to be aware of the danger in some of these legal sets. Do not be fooled into thinking your dog is too large to be caught and killed in a 220. How the trap is used or the kind of set made is the issue. The 220 is a very selective coon set when used as an open trail set. These sets are of no interest to dogs since no bait or scent is used. A 220 is only 7 inches high and even with a stablizer stake they will only sit 9-10 inches high. A hunting dog, even small breeds like beagles will go right over the top without even knowing they are there.

The set to be concerned about is the baited cubbie set. These generally consist of a small wood box or plastic bucket with a 220 set in the opening. These are generally baited with meat, fish, scent or some combination. Obviously any hunting dog will have enough nose to detect and home in on these sets from quite a distance down wind. The bait is the key ingredient here. The same trap that a dog will easily pass over on a blind trail set is the only thing between him and a tasty treat and they will not hesitate to stick their head in.

If you think your dog is too large here is a test you can try at home. Take a cardboard box and cut a 7X7 inch square hole in the side. Place a nice chunk of meat inside and set it upwind in your yard. Let fido out and see how long it takes for him to find the snack. Most full size labs and large hounds will have no problem slipping their heads through the 7x7 opening.

I explain this not to scare you from hunting your dogs, but to be well aware and informed on what to look out for, and not to be complacent in thinking your big dogs are safe from this.

[gorrilla]

Johnny(buddy...) and 101,

You guys must think I'm sitting here with high blood pressure slapping keys with steam coming out of my ears...

For the record, I used to trap when I was younger and had more time, I own a shorthair who loves to work the extremes as far as range goes, and often have much better things to do than type on here, believe it or not.

I just get really sick of one sided discussions on this site where dog owners or other people only look at things from their perspective. Nobody wants to lose a dog to a trap ever. The responsibility of that never happening isn't just on the trapper though.

Do many trappers need better education on how, when, and where to make a body grip set? I'm sure...

Do dog owners need to be aware of how, when, and where they might encounter a body grip set? Yes...

Is it much easier for people to start restricting use of certain traps than to bother educating dog owners and trappers???? In some narrow-minded viewpoints, seemingly so...

Is the taking away of trappers use of effective trapping tools infringing on their right/ability to trap??? Yes.

Just because land is public does it mean it is for the sole use of dog owners and it must be kept free of all hazards to dogs 12 months a year??? Some must think this...

Is there a better way to prevent/reduce dog deaths while allowing trapping to take place effectively???

YES, its just all too common for dog owners (even outdoorsmen) to shoot themselves in the foot by infringing on other sportsmen's sports and opt to restrict and limit rather than exert the extra effort needed to educate everyone involved. I can see I'm outnumbered on this topic by people who disagree with me, but that doesn't make your viewpoints the right or only one available...

[jparrucci]

I guess what I want to know more than anything, is when and where to look out for traps! I hunt pheasants ever week thoughout the season. I hunt almost entirely public land in the western and southern part of the state. We work thick cover, cattails, open grass fields, the edge of the water when it is near freeze up. What places should I try to avoid when I am working my dog looking for pheasants? My brittany works relatively close to me, but when we are in thick in the cattails, he is sometimes out of sight. Are there areas are should specifically avoid?

[walleye101]

gorrila,

There is no one on this topic bashing trappers or calling for trapping bans. Only concerned dog owners asking some questions and genuinely looking for some useful advice. If you read my previous post that is exactly what I was trying to provide. Non-trappers do not know the difference between a blind trail set and baited cubbie. They need to know what to look out for. It is only a one sided topic if no one provides any useful information from the other side.

You are the one always talking about educating trappers and hunters. Here is your chance to step up to the plate and practice what you preach.

[gorrilla]

Walleye 101, just like the other forums, posts, etc. I don't appreciate continual sarcasm or taunts either. I will not attempt to address broad challenges on "educating" people. This is almost getting sickening dealing with you, but I'll type it again...

I highly recommend all trappers, hunters, and dog owners to take a trapper education course. It is not just to learn to be a better trapper, but to understand trapping and what one can encounter when on public land or relatively open access private land.

If you don't think (some)people on this site are bashing trapping, blaming trappers for all dog deaths due to lack of ownership responsibility, or could care less if another body grip was ever legally used again, then you are walking around with blinders on...

If a guy who trapped until he was 16 (twenty years ago) can help address individual questions about trapping, then by all means fire away. If your just trying to get me fired up and argue, then just unplug your keyboard...