Icing Catfish!!!

[Guest]

Just thought I'd start a topic on pulling up a few cats through the ice. I've done ok in the past when targeting cats and they sure put up a fight. A lot of people overlook the potential of some great fishing.

So, anyone else hunt for these bad boys during the hard water season?

Another question, can someone keep catfish during the winter months to take home and eat? Or is there a season for them? I'm not a big catfisherman and I'm not up to date on all the rules and regulations for cats.

Good Fishin,
Matt

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Catch-N Tackle
MarCum

[Dennis Steele]

OoH Cold cats!!
I am really looking forward to icing some kitties this upcoming season.
What a blast to fight a whiskered little devil through a small hole in the ice.

We are in the process of organizing a get together on the ice for cats this year.Every one is invited.Stay tunned for dates and details....

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Minnesota River Guided Fishing
"fishhead"
[email protected]
www.mnriverguidedfishing.com

[Guest]

I used white leadhead jigs tipped with a fathead minnow. Bounce it off the bottom a few times causing silt and debris, then hold it about 6 inches off bottom. Look for suspended cats too.

I like to fish lakes or rivers where you have an inlet/slow current leading into the main lake. Fish the nearest hole/drop-off from the inlet and you'll see some cats stacked up off the edge near the bottom. This holds true especially for large resovoirs where you have a drop-off close to a dam/wall.

A lot of lakes are stocked with cats too and they can be relatively easy to locate. A lot of these lakes that are moderate in depth, max of 30-40 feet, have deep holes somehere near the main basin, a good place to look. I've found that the cats hold tight to the edges, but that might not be true for all lakes, maybe just the ones I fished.

I don't have a lot of experience with cats but this is what I can share from my past experiences through the ice.

Anyone else?

Good Fishin,
Matt

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Catch-N Tackle
MarCum

[This message has been edited by MJ5 (edited 11-05-2003).]

[EBass]

Now you're talking - ice time kitties! What would one use for bait? Cut sucker per usual or ...???

[Flashman]

I know I have to go with you guys this winter for Cats on the Ice. The doctor tells me I fish too much, got some tendenitous (sp) I told him it didn't bother me when I was fishing every other day but since I haven't wet a line since early Sept, I think it's a sign of withdrawl.

I'll keep my eyes open for the kitty ice gathering.

[Crawlerman]

We talked about it last year, but never ended up doing it, eh? I think you mentioned something about a "golden" lake?

I also know Tanners lake is stocked with them (I've caught a few of them during the summer season) as well as Silver (in N. St Paul)

I wasn't able to make it to the ice cat thing last year on the horseshoe chain, but maybe we could plan a metro meet specifically to target ice cats?

Hope to possilby see you at Cabelas on the 14th.

[Guest]

Crawlerman,

Yeah, Golden Lake has some cats in it, and they can be caught quite easily during the hard water season. Not big in size though, both the lake and the fish.

I think a Metro event geared towards cats could be an option. Find a lake and host it and post it when the time comes. I think that would be a fun day on the ice and something new for a lot of people.

I'll be at the Nov 14 meeting, see you there!

Good Fishin,
Matt

[email protected]
Catch-N Tackle
MarCum

[Dennis Steele]

A metro cat gathering would be cool too.I'll be there
But we will definately be having one on the "Shoe" this season.There just isn't a lake that compares to that action.

[Guest]

The shoe sounds like a good time. I plan on being there.

Good Fishin,
Matt

[email protected]
Catch-N Tackle
MarCum

[Wiskers]

Well if it's a winter cat gathering and there are cats to be had throught the ice count me in.. In 10 years of catting I have not been able to hook a cat through the ice up here.. I think it gets just too darn cold.. or else they are scared of me LOL LOL .. I will be keeping an eye out for the details.. I think Flashman has a room with my name on the door.

Is it summer yet.... that "Pro" looks VERY uncomfortable in my back yard with snow on the tarp....sigh sigh.. Maybe I should just load it up and head for the Metro, there has to be open water down there somewhere?????

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Wiskers Guiding Service
Red River & Minnesota River,for Channel Cats, Flatheads & Walleyes
Crookston, MN
[email protected]

218-280-0442

[Guest]

Cats are a blast through the ice, challenging at times for sure. I go for them about as often as I do for anything else in the winter.

It is relatively easy to find huge schools of cats on rivers. I can locate there likely location without drilling a hole or breaking out the electronics, there that predictable. Getting them to bite, that's a whole different thing. Some schools are so thick and massive in size that a jig will not hit the bottom without first bouncing off a few cats. Schools 11' thick and 30 yards long are not difficult to find in some areas.

I do not promote or disclose these areas to many as they are very vulnerable to exploitation. If an unscrupulous angler or group of anglers got over such a school they could snag thousands of cats, not catch cats, but snag them. And they could do it all winter long tell they were eradicated from that location. So I keep my mouth shut for the cats well being. Not all would do it, but I have learned my lesson the hard way as to those who will. I had several e-mails on where to locate cats in the winter for spearing. I shudder to think of the outcome of that if it ever caught on!

For the record, don't ask me about spearing cats..or let me see you doing it!

For straight out angling fun cats are tough to beat. Yet I am very torn about promoting it.

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BACKWATER GUIDING
701-281-2300
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><,sUMo,>

[This message has been edited by Backwater Eddy (edited 11-12-2003).]

[Dennis Steele]

Cats are difficult to catch through the ice on the MN River.I have heard of a few of these wintering holes where guys have seen (on the camera)hundreds of cats stacked like cord wood and not one willing to bite.Yet you fish a lake and the bite can awsome.I don't know why the lake cats are more willing to bite.
We watched them on the camera on the shoe last year.Sometimes they would come in to a bait and taste the bait with the side of thier body before turning to take the bait.It was interesting to see them take the bait too.Some would just slide up underneath the bait, pause inches away, and then gently suck it in.Others would just dart right up,slam it and take off all in one motion.You can get a good handle on feeding cats by watching them with a camera.This year I am going to get one of those new Marcum 560 cameras.Can't wait to play with that toy!I should be able to answer a few whats and whys with the better lighting system,direction, and temp displays that it has.Plus I won't get a cramp trying to twist the cord in my finger tips to turn it!
OOOH I just can't wait to chase some cold cats this winter.

I should have the Cold Cats Gathering dates set by the end of this weekend.

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Minnesota River Guided Fishing
"fishhead"
[email protected]
www.mnriverguidedfishing.com

[Guest]

Sounds good Dennis, going to be a fun time icing those kitties.

Good Fishin,
Matt

[email protected]
Catch-N Tackle
MarCum

[Guest]

I got some great news on the spearing thing that got me so worked up.

I got a clarification from the MN DNR on the regs on spearing/snagging in MN for cats. Spearing or snagging of catfish is a No-No, not legal anywhere in MN including the border waters and their tributaries. I was very happy to see that!

Now I am on ND's case to get this clarified. On the Red I think it may be a No-No, but inland I am not sure just yet on that? Most I asked were unsure so they were checking with the big boys in Bismarck to see if it got overlooked or not in the new spearing bill. We will have to wait and see on that one?

Hey Dennis, if your fingers get tired eyeballing them Kitty's you might need that new Aqua-Vu remote unit, the Mo-Pod. That deal is very cool! Up-Down..left-Right you name it, all on a mini remote control you can tape to that kitty jigging stick. Ya it's pretty high on my wish list now, Ya-U-bet!

With the warmer weather we may need to be thinking less ice and more warm water discharge areas on power plants for some kitty action. They could be doing well about now? Ya never know?

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BACKWATER GUIDING
701-281-2300
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><,sUMo,>

[Guest]

Well, I spoke too soon. There has been a correction on what I was first told by the DNR.

I'm sorry to spoil your day but I looked further at the winter spearing regs and they do include catfish as a legal fish for spearing. I thought it only included northern, whitefish, and rough fish. It
escaped me because I've never seen anyone spear a catfish on an inland water. So it is legal and may become a concern.

On lakes spearing catfish would be almost imposable to do, but on rivers, that would be a disaster if it caught on.

If this remains to be the case I think us Catfisherman may need to petition the state to alter this? What do you think guys?

I very strongly feel this needs to be addressed before it does become a problem. Can you imagine with todays technology the havoc to flatheads and channel catfish this could cause?

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BACKWATER GUIDING
701-281-2300
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><,sUMo,>

[fiskyknut]

I don't see much to worry about as far as Catfish stocks being depleted by wintertime spearing.

Minnesota regs are pretty clear as to snagging, spearing, and bowfishing.

Pg.15- "It is unlawful to take a fish by snagging", this would indeed include Catfish of any species.

Pg.51 covers the Mn-Nd border waters and states...."Spearing from a fishhouse or darkhouse is unlawful", and also states...."Rough fish, except Burbot [eelpout] may be taken by spearing or archery May 1 through December 31". Catfish are Gamefish in Mn. so taking a Catfish by these means here would be unlawful.

Pg.52 deals with archery and spearing May 1 thru December 31, and basically states that only 'Rough fish' are legal to take. Taking a Catfish in this timeframe, and with these methods would again be unlawful.

Pg.53 gets into the winter darkhouse spearing regs and states...."Northern Pike, Rough fish, Catfish, and Whitefish may be taken by darkhouse spearing Dec. 1 thru Feb. 15". So it does appear to be legal on the other waters of the state to take Catfish. How many actually get taken thru a winter?

I fish the Roseau river, a Red river trib, occasionally thru the winter and this river has a few of those wintering spots where the Catfish pile into thick. I don't see anyone spearing these areas. I do hear of a Catfish now and then being taken by spearers who are targeting Pike.

North Dakotas regs seem pretty clear too as far as the spearing/snagging of catfish during winter. Dark house spear fishing is legal Dec. 1 through Feb. 28.

Pg.15- "Northern Pike and nongame fish will be the only legal species for darkhouse spear fishing". In ND Channel Catfish are also consider a game fish so taking one would be unlawful.

Pg.6- "Snagging fish is illegal except for Paddlefish as provided in section 17". Intentional snagging of any fish outside of Paddlefish appears to be unlawful.

For the bow and spear season that runs May 1 to Nov.30.

Pg.14-"Game fish may not be taken with bow or spears"

The underwater spearfishing season is allowing the taking of Catfish in ND though. I'm not sure about the other Catfish waters in ND, but in all my years fishing the Red river I have never seen an underwater spear fisherman!

Does anyone know any folks who intentionally target Catfish while winter spearfishing in Minnesota?

fiskyknut

[Guest]

I recently had several e-mails asking about catfish spearing. That is what caught my attention and raised cause for concern. Apparently a few are thinking spearing, or why ask how or where to do it?

So I e-mailed a regional MN DNR CO to get the scoop on spearing catfish. First look he said "No they are not allowed to be speared in MN". But he soon e-mailed me back and said after further research he found he was mistaken. This was the CO's response.

"I'm sorry to spoil your day but I looked further at the winter spearing regs and they do include catfish as a legal fish for spearing. I thought it only included northern, whitefish, and rough fish. It
escaped me because I've never seen anyone spear a catfish on an inland water. So it is legal and may become a concern."

If you wish to contact him personally fiskyknut I can e-mail you his name and e-mail address to verify this.

Personally I view spearing on lakes as not likely a big concern. As that opportunity would be a rare one because of the catfish's wintering habitat preferences.

Although spearing on the tributary rivers is another thing all together and one of a much greater concern if practiced.

In MN a line of sight across the mouth of the tributary designates the boundary between border waters, and inland waters. That would mean that all MN tributary rivers, as inland waters, would be open for spearing of catfish.

In ND once you pass the first vehicular bridge on a tributary it is considered inland waters. So there in is the cause for concern and clarification on the ND side.

If indeed when all said and done spearing is legal for catfish, I find it very concerning.

I am basing this on my most recent correspondence with the MN DNR. If they reinterpret the law some how the concern may be mute point.

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BACKWATER GUIDING
701-281-2300
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><,sUMo,>

[Dennis Steele]

That never even occured to me!
The last thing we need is a bunch of yokels going out and slaughtering cats with big forks.
I Doubt that it would be too difficult to change the laws on this since I have never seen this practice and I don't think there would be much opposition.
How do we get started?

[fiskyknut]

Easy now!....Contact some DNR guy? Why would I need to contact him for any verification when its all right there in black and white in the regs. The spearing/snagging questions you wondered about look to be in the regs from what I saw, so I figured I'd point them out, it was not meant as any kinda hostile post their Ed....Sorry.

I am familiar with the regs as to the tribs and their bounderies. Yes it is legal to spear Catfish on the Mn side tribs the way it's worded in the regs at this time, and I don't see this as a concern, nobody, or a very few at best target them. I don't see a concern with Nd tribs at all due to the fact that Catfish are already not allowed to be taken by spear anywhere in the state according to the reg booklet. With the possible exception of all the ND underwater catfish spearfisherman out there!

I am basing this on my interpretation of what I read in the regulation pamphlets.

I don't see where there is any great concern as to winter spearing of Catfish doing any damage, perhaps if masses started doing it. I just don't think there are too many folks out there targeting them, and as reluctant as they bite on some rivers I'd bet they won't decoy very well either!

I do not do any spearfishing myself, Catfish, underwater, or otherwise.

Regards....Fisky

[Guest]

No hostility meant or perceived fiskyknut. I just wished to supply my source if you were curious.

Decoying would not be a factor, nor would visibility. They are stacked like loges in areas very small. I hesitate getting into it any further because I do not want to help those who would do it, do it even more effectively.

If you know the wintering habits of catfish on rivers it really becomes a case of just being able to hit fish in a barrel. And how hard would that be to hit fish stacked up 12' thick straight below you? Not much need for a decoy under those conditions.

It is all about vulnerability of a species. They are extremely vulnerable at that time. I feel they should be protected from potential exploitation.

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BACKWATER GUIDING
701-281-2300
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><,sUMo,>

[This message has been edited by Backwater Eddy (edited 11-15-2003).]

[fiskyknut]

Well I'm not anti spearing I guess. I know a few spots on the Red, Red lake, and Roseau rivers where they winter en mass as you speak of. I don't think they'd be quite that easy to spear, and fish in a barrel may not be an accurate analogy. Have you done any spearfishing? I am totally against any fish resource exploitation, especially on the watersheds I fish, but I really don't have a problem with folks who enjoy regulated and lawful winter spearfishing. Again I know of no one who targets these fish on these 3 rivers, but realize some folks may do it, and that some may exploit. If exploitation of the fish was to become a factor, I'd be one of the first to complain. Just don't see it happening. If a few were to exploit, then they should be dealt with, but not at the expense of others who may perhaps enjoy spearfishing of one type or another.

fiskyknut

[Guest]

If folks harvest fish that are not in a vulnerable position legally, I have no qualms with it. Responsible spearing still has daily bag limits to fallow.

But a channel catfish 1 only over 24" regulation may be kinda difficult to do while spearing? That may be the tool needed to shut catfish spearing down on the tributaries of the Red and it's tributaries?

I view this particular threat of exploitation outside of any responsible harvest because of the vulnerability.

From the feedback I am getting across the region, I am not the only one who can see this as a real threat to wintering catfish populations.

On the Red itself is is very likely spearing of catfish is not allowed just because of the 24" regulation. Still waiting of a clarification for that from the NDG&F. The MN tributaries do appear to be an issue of concern. And very possibly the inland tributaries in ND as well.

My personal view is no catfish should be speared. My personal experience tells me if there are loopholes in game laws, people will use them. So if the demand on catfish spearing is not one of huge popularity now, I say shut the door on that loophole now before it becomes a problem that can't be fixed.

------------------
BACKWATER GUIDING
701-281-2300
[email protected]
><,sUMo,>

[fiskyknut]

I reckon any fish targeted by spearing of one sort or another could be considered vulnerable depending on ones views of spearfishing in general.

I can see the 1/24 issue as a concern. Lotw has a 30 to 40 inch slot on Pike, and I'm sure a slot fish or 20 are hit buy a spear thru the winter. The Pike fishery seems to be going strong even with the number of spearfishers on the lake.

I'm not so sure about their vulnerability, and it leading to total exploitation. I think the majority of folks abide by gamelaws. Those who don't should pay, not the law abiding folks who enjoy such things.

That loophole you mention is not a lophole, it is the law in Mn. as for now. Have we seen any exploitation within this law as it stands? Why should we assume it will happen at a later date?

Ed I remember the heated posts from a few years back when ND open up Pike spearing. You seemed quite against this too then.

Again I don't spear at all, and it personally would'nt bother me one bit if Mn. said no Catfish or all fish for that matter, but I think if folks want to they should be able to, as long as there is attention given to the health of the fishery regarding the rules that govern harvest, whether it be a spear harvest or hook and line fishing.

Seems that more and more of outdoor peoples rights and/or priveledges are being taken away everyday.

[This message has been edited by Rick (edited 11-15-2003).]

[Guest]

Your correct I was personally against spearing in ND. I Still am against it state wide. Never speared, and I likely never will. That is my choice I guess?

My views on spearing inland waters are separate from my concerns on exploitation of catfish wintering populations.

A "loophole" is just an overlooked threat or opportunity. Regulations are constantly upgraded to reflect impact from technology and/or trends. Often what was not perceived as a direct threat in the past may become one today due to changing circumstance. Altering the regulations to protect the resource is part of the ever changing environment of modern game management.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I apologize to the rest on this tread if I hi-jacked it with my concerns on exploitation of wintering catfish populations.

I have nothing against legal angling for cats through the ice. I think most know this? Catfish are very high on my list of favorite species to angle for under the ice. They are challenging to catch and brawl like a champ. Whats not to like about that?

Thanks,

Ed Carlson

[This message has been edited by Backwater Eddy (edited 11-16-2003).]

[Dennis Steele]

My first days on ice were in a spear house.I grew up with it,so I can understand how people would want to preserve thier rights to do that.I also grew up keeping the "BIG" fish too.Throw the little one back and that 12lb walleye on the stringer.
We have come a long way and have learned that that does nothing to preserve our fisheries.
I don't think I would like to see a dark house on my river with a stack of cats sitting outside the door with big holes in them.Its not a problem right now, I have never seen anyone do it.But I am fairly certain that some one reading these post will be looking for those wintering holes this winter.It doens't take long for a practice to become popular.And in my opinion this practice is not good for our fishery.Catfishing has grown in popualrity exponentially in the last few years and I can see that if some people knew that spearing cats was legal they would take full advantage of it.THey are just too concentrated at this time.We have seasons to protect our fish when they are vulnerable.These cats are at the most vulnerable when they are lying nearly dormant stacked up thick.They should be protected.That doesn't mean that we are on the side of PETA,that just means we are responsible outdoorsmen looking to preserve our rights to fish and preserve our fish populations for the future.PETA would have one more reason to try to stop all our fun if spearing cats became a common practice.Its good to stop things that would damage our sport to preserve our sport.