Evinrude/Johnson/Bow Mount Questions

[eyepatrol]

I'm wondering whether anyone knows if Evinrude will come out with kicker motors in the near future? Has there been any press resleases regarding them? I can't find anything on their site.

Also, to my understanding, Evinrude and Johnson are, in some respects, siblings to each other with the exception of some things. Anyone know if Johnson makes a motor similar to the E-tec?

Reason why I ask these questions is two-fold: First, I've heard good things about the E-tec, but I really hate to mix motor brands between the main motor and the kicker motor; Secondly, if Johnson makes a motor similar to the E-tec, then I would consider their motors since they make kicker motors.

And maybe since I'm on the topic of trolling motors I should bring up one more thought/subject. What are the thoughts on fishing with a 70lb or 80lb Powerdrive bowmount in windy, 2' - 3' waves? Will a 70 or 80lb thrust motor do the job in those conditions on a 18'-6" fiberglass boat? Will the batteries get worn down before a full day of use is put in? I'm trying to determine if I really need a kicker motor or not. If a 70 or 80lb thrust bow mount can handle the wind and waves and troll the boat sufficiently, then perhaps I wouldn't need to spend the $3K on a new kicker motor.

Thanks!!

[Shorelunch]

I believe Evinrude will be introducing their E-TEC kickers in '07 models. That will then be the end of the Johnson (4 stroke) brand who was/is owned by BRP/Evinrude. Evinrude will no longer be affiliated with either 4 stroke or carb technology - only E-TEC's.

[SteveWilson]

Well the 4 stroke Johnson kickers are Suzuki's, I don't know what of Johnson is made by Johnson - maybe the 2 strokes. Anyhow, I've also heard that Evinrude will come out with E-tec kickers. It would be really nice to have a fuel injected kicker motor, maybe we'll finally have a motor that runs well at just off idle.

[eyepatrol]

Thanks for the info guys. I've heard some good things about the E-tecs and it certainly would be nice if they came out with kicker motors in case I (or anyone for that matter) wants to buy a boat with an Evi on it and match the motors.

Would either of you have an opinion as to the need for a kicker motor? I wonder if a 70lb or 80lb Minnkota can pull a 18'-6" boat in high winds and rough waves (2'-3' waves). If I could get by without a kicker motor and save $3K or $4K, I'm all for it!

[Mille Lacs Guy]

I thought that Johnson/BRP still made the 4 strokes under 40 horse power or something like that and Suzuki used to make the bigger 4 strokes before they were discontinued. I could be wrong but I thought that's what I heard.

[SteveWilson]

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... wants to buy a boat with an Evi on it and match the motors.

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Well the Johnson kicker does match up paint wise with the Evinrude ETec. You can get the Johnson 9.9HP in Evinrude Blue and of course you can get the ETecs in White (which is the same color as Johnson). They just won't have the same company name but they will match (looks good too). I was thinking of removing my Johnson 140HP 4 stroke (A nice motor BTW) and puting on a 175HP ETec but the $$$$ were a bit much. Just be aware that if you go the Johnson kicker route you will need to put a power tilt/trim box on the back which adds bucks. If I were to do it again I would probably go with the Yamaha T8. If you're holding off on a kicker I would wait until they come out with a kicker that has EFI. The carb motors just don't idle all that well.

[delmuts]

for trolling it will depend on the speed also( more speed, more batt. drain). a 70-80 will run a long time, but i'm not certain about all day. i would talk to a dealer, or call minnkota and ask them . but from what i have seen and read, many have kicker motors for trolling.

[eyepatrol]

Thanks for all the info guys. It sure is nice to be able to ask questions on a site like this and get first-hand experience responses!

As for the E-tec/Johnson kicker combo, I'd have to agree that since they are nearly the same in color, I wouldn't have a problem putting the two on. I may be weird, but I just don't like to mix other motor brands on my boat....just a personal preference.

Delmuts...thanks for the info. One thing a friend of mine had mentioned too was trolling cranks. If I wanted to troll cranks in high wind and waves, a bow mount might not get the job done. And trolling cranks in rod holders and especially with boards is something I want to learn and get into next year. So getting a kicker motor is something I'll be doing. Along with the added reliability of getting back to the dock if I'm miles out on a lake and the main motor breaks down.

Everyone's responses are greatly appreciated!

[PerchJerker]

Your bowmount will not work to troll cranks in wind and waves, and your 150 / 175 main motor will be too fast for spring and fall unless you use some other tricks / techniques to slow it down. I use my kicker for all of my crankbait fishing, and for less than half of my livebait fishing.

Yam T-8s and Merc Pro Kickers are the top of the heap when it comes to kicker motors. Other motors that do not have the bigger gear case will also work as kickers, I used a Merc 9.9 4-stroke for years without a complaint. Evinrude and Johnson kicker-sized motors have a reputation for running poorly at low speeds, but my tournament partner has a Evinrude 8 that doesn't skip a beat. Couldn't tell you anything about small suzukis and hondas other than I don't see or hear much about them.

I've heard that as the Evinrude line becomes all E-tecs the Johnson line is going to become all 2-stroke and sold overseas, the way Mariner is now??? I don't know if that's got any truth to it or not. One thing to think about with an E-Tec kicker if such a thing ever exists is how does it get it's oil - internal resevoir, seperate resevoir in the boat, or pre-mixed gas. I like being able to run my 4-stroke kickers off my main fuel tank and not mess with any oil for them.

I'm still dying to see what rig you're going to finally go with basscatcher Keep on shopping

[eyepatrol]

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I'm still dying to see what rig you're going to finally go with basscatcher

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It's been a whirlwind experience, let me tell ya! The first and only boat I ever bought, I just took my buddies advice and went out and bought it. Now that I'm married with children, it's been much more complicated (but would be much easier if I weren't married).

We've really settled on the Stratos. As for a motor, well that part is up in the air a little yet as I haven't looked into them all too much. I do know about the Optimax though since I had one on my previous boat, but I'm keeping my options open, trying to keep an open mind about things. Johnson makes some 4-stroke kickers which I wish I knew more about. I've heard and read a few times on this site that their 2-strokes don't function very well, but I haven't heard alot about their 4-strokes. Bottom line is that we'll end up with a DI 2-stroke of some kind, likely Mercury or Evinrude and a 4-stroke for the kicker.

Things are slowly starting to come together though. At least we got the boat nailed down. As for electronics, that's a little up in the air except I know for certain I want the Lowrance X102C on the bow and I'm leaning heavily towards the Lowrance LCX-25C with GPS+WAAS on the console. No navionics or mapping capability though....I just don't need anything like that for the lakes I fish.

On-board battery charger, Minnkota 70lb Powerdrive w/ AP and CP, dual fuel line hook-up, 4 pedestal seats, carpeted floors, sun top, bow cushions, Richter anchors, traveling cover, trailer with surge breaks, swing tongue and spare tire....that's about what we'll have along with some sort of motors. Wife said we're keeping the boat for 10 years minimum, so I better make darn sure I (we) get what I (we) want.

It's been a lot of fun learning about the various boat brands and models along with the various motor brands and models. I've been really tempted to jump right in and get a boat because not having one has been mentally tough on me , but I'm glad we're taking the time and effort to research everything so that we make the most informed choice we possibly can.

[PerchJerker]

At least it's gotta be better than shopping for a new car

[eyepatrol]

Yeah, we just got done doing that a month ago. Actually, slightly used.

[aanderud]

basscatcher,

I had similar questions about getting either a kicker or a bow-mount. I have an 1850 sportfish. The full windshield gets a lot of wind and stuff, and the 50 lb unit that was on it when I bought it was definitely too wimpy for it.

After using a new 60 inch 80 lb ap/us for the better part of 2 months, I have no complaints. In fact, I've been very impressed with longevity and power that is available out of the unit.

Any time the waves hit 2 feet or bigger, I use my 125 merc outboard to troll if going against the waves. If I'm going sideways or with the wind, or any time the waves are smaller than that, I use the bow mount. I never have to turn it higher than 7-8 on the 1-10 scale, because if I do then the waves are big enough to tame my outboard to under .8 mph. I have used the trolling motor in some 2+ footers to just hover and verticle jig. The autopilot is great for that, and the 2+ foot waves give you great jigging action

I emailed MinnKota and asked if they would be coming out with a 100+ lb thrust 36 volt unit in autopilot/powerdrive form factor (they have a maxxum, but I don't like cable steer). They said they were but they had no date. The other option is the Motorguide 109 lb unit with "digital" steering (non cable steer) but it has no auto pilot -- I absolutely love the autopilot feature though, and would take smaller autopilot over larger non-ap.

In the long run, I just got sick of waiting on MinnKota to upsize their stuff and I bought the biggest 24 v they had - 80 lbs. I have not been disappointed, but I also haven't tried trolling cranks. I doubt that one could go all night on a 24 volt unit going 2+ mph with cranks. I'm thinking one would be better off with 36v 100+ lb electric unit than with my loud 2-stroke engine - more relaxing/quiet/etc.

At slower speeds (1.5 mph or less) I have fished it for 10 hours or more with no noticeable drop in power. This with walmart batteries, not the "blue top" suped up expensive hogs...who knows, I might get fewer seasons out of them, but then again they only cost 1/3 as much....doubt that the blue tops will give 3x the lifetime in seasons.

Anyway, I think you'll be happy with a large autopilot unit, I have been very happy with mine. If I start trolling cranks for extended periods of time, I will maybe invest in a yammy T8 - 4 stroke goodness, electric tilt, remote throttle controls, etc. I looked at a used one with all the features, extra long shaft and all at an marine dealer 2 months ago, less than 5 hours on the unit and could have had it installed for 1700 bucks...that's a steal I think. So there's good deals to be found. I just haven't trolled cranks in over 10 years so I thought I'd feed my live bait trolling needs first.

[eyepatrol]

aanderud...that's great info! Thanks much for sharing. I think the 80lb PD will serve our boat well when we get it. My previous 17'-3" boat had a 48lb thrust on it (recommended by the dealer I bought it from) and that was just too small. I don't want to make that mistake again, which is main reason I'm going 80lb. Better to have too much power than not enough!

As for the remote throttle controls on the Yamaha T8....what's that all about? I've heard others mention remote throttle controls and now you, but I've never heard of it before. Very curious!

[PerchJerker]

Remote controls are for kickers that are tied to the big motor for steering. The electric start, F-N-R shifting, and throttle is mounted at the console just like your big motor, and you steer by turning your big motor.

The other options are to have your kicker operate as a tiller controlled motor, or to have a removable steering link with the main motor.

Another accessory is a Trollmaster, which is a throttle control only that connects to your kicker and can be located anywhere in the boat. They offer much more precise throttle adjustments than the typical F-N-R shifters and throttles. You can also use Trollmasters on tiller controlled kickers but they are mostly used for remote controlled kickers. Cabelas and other places carry Trollmasters, there's 2 models and they sell for $250 or less. I would say they are a must-have if you troll cranks a lot and have a remote controlled kicker.