Pro Dog training?

[Dahitman44]

I have been thinking about having my dog trained professionally.

Long story short a friend of miine will give me $1,500 worth of pro training for CHEAP. Good deal, I know.

I know the trainer and I hear he is very good.

Is that a good way to go???

Also, he keeps the dog for like two months and I wonder if that will hurt our attachment, plus the kids will miss him. He will also fall behind in "potty" training. He has not had an accident in his kennel (just a sleepiing crate style) for weeks. he will be housed in a regular boarding style indoor/outdoor kennel.

HELP? what do I do?

[LABS4ME]

If I remember right, you had posted that your dog is 3 months old in another thread.... to early to go to a pro unless you are trying to make a trial dog.... and even then they are not recieving formal lessons at 3 months. Keep up the foundation work and obedience work and keep socializing him big time. Generally they go to a pro after their adult teeth are all in.

While most people can bring a dog to the level of performance that they desire on their own, it takes a fair amount of time committment on your part. Haphazard training will do nothing but confuse the dog and further frustrate you. A pro will generally get more polish into your dog in 2 months than you would get in a half a year. I'm not kidding myself with my current pup. With my schedule at work I would be doing a great diservice to her by trying to commit the time to training her. She went to the pro 2 weeks ago. I'm going to see where she sits in 3 months before deciding if we are going to forge further into her finish work. She was 7 months almost to the day when she went. There is great satisfaction in finishing your own hunting dog, but if you are not up to the task or do not know where to begin, a pro will do wonders for you and your dog.

Good LUck!

Ken

[duckbuster]

LABS has made some very good points. I will chime in on what he has to say.

If you are looking at a gun dog only then I would try to determine what it is you want done. By doing this you can determine how long you will need to leave the dog with your pro. An example would be, if you want ONLY obedience or ONLY the force fetch to be completed or you ONLY want the dog thru the double "T" (which would provide the base for a handling dog) then a 6-8 week stint would probably suffice.

If you want all of the above done then you will need to think about leaving the dog for longer than a 3 month period.

I always try to talk my friends into a minimum stay of 3 months. By doing this you give the dog and trainer a better chance of completing what is started and what you want to get accomplished.

At this point I would tell you to work on the obedience end of things real hard, with introduction to a bird until the dogs puppy teeth fall out. At that time I would then send him to your pro for what you want done.

If you are thinking of trialing the dog and you are a novice at the training game then I would be thinking on a much longer stay with your pro.

I wouldn't worry at all about the dog forgetting who you are or your kids. I believe our dog has been with the pro nearly 50% of our ownership of her. The one comment that he has made and has been made by other people we train with is that they have never seen a dog love its owners as much as she loves my 10 year old daughter (who is on the owner registration) and me. Our dog is just about 3 1/2 years old and has gone south the past 3 winter for 4 1/2 months at a time. On top of that she has spent a couple of weeks here or a month there during the summer months. She has never forgotten us or her home.

GOOOD LUCK with your decision and with your FRIEND!!!!!

[BLACKJACK]

What is your goal, a good hunting dog or a field trial dog?

What do you hunt the most, ducks, pheasants, grouse? And most importantly, how much time do you have to spend training the dog? If you can't commit 1/2 hour day/ 3-4 hours a week to training, then off to the trainer it should go. If you want to do the field trial thing, then you better send it to a trainer. If you just want a hunting dog (a "meat dog") and you have a little time, you can do the training. Its actually fun and if you have kids you can get them involved.

I personally would not send my 'friend' off to a trainer for months at a time. I'm not worried about them forgetting me, the nice thing about dogs is that they're always happy to see you (compare that with women, some day you're the best thing since sliced bread and other days you're dumber than dirt, but I digress). No, my dogs are also companions and I'm not going to send my friend off to doggie jail to be locked up for 23 hours a day. Of course my standards aren't that high, I just need some obedience and a meat dog that will hunt up and retrieve some birds, I don't need a dog that will run out 175 yards, do two circles, then run right another 60 yards to find the bird. That type of training takes alot of time and isn't necessary for the type of hunting I do. To each his own.

Good luck and enjoy the pup.

[Dahitman44]

LABS4 --

Yeah, my pup is almost 3.5 months and my trainer said that was the earliest he would take them. He does obediance traing as well as hunting.

I think that is a little early. Plus he is not a fan of us visiting.

Thoughts?

[Dahitman44]

Duck --

All very good points. I think it will be the toughest on my twin six-year-old boys. They will miss him.

How often can I visit the dog without messing things up?

[Dahitman44]

Black jack --

Another good point. I have a lot to think about.

I also have a problem with Doggie jail.

[Eric Wettschreck]

I don't understand why the trainer doesn't want you to visit. I'm no pro by any means, but the few trainers I know stress visits from the owners while they are in "Doggie jail."

[LABS4ME]

1st off I still stand by my statement that 3 months is way too early. Save your money and bring him in when he is through his teething stage.

2nd a lot of trainers do not want you to have contact with the dog especially in the arly stages of formal training, especially during the force. It goes much smoother if the dog remains focused on what is being taught to them. The less the dog is distarcted the quicker and smoother the training goes. With that said, some trainers will be open to you doing the training side be side of your dog. This is going to require an even greater time committment and flexibility on your part, but it is offered with some pros.

3rd the "doggie jail" statement is made by those who are uninformed and not uneducated as to what a true training operation is. The majority of pros would be rather P.O.'d reading this statement... in fact Dahitman, tell the pro where you are taking your dog that you are putting him in "doggie jail" and see what kind of dialogue you open up with him. This is their job and they are passionate about what they do. As with most people, slamming someone's occupation will usually go over like a lead balloon. They do not sit around for 23 hours a day. Most pros will have your dog out for 2-4 training sessions a day for 10-30 minutes a session depending on what they are covering. This is probably 2-4 times more work than the average dog gets. They also teach them manners and how to be focused and attentive. They learn that they MUST obey. Half a$$ed is not good enough. You don't learn all this laying in the kitchen waiting for something to fall from the counter, or sleeping on the couch chewing on a rawhide. As far as "jail" goes, the kennel where my pup is at is air conditioned and has an air exchanger, they are fed Eukanuba and any special requirements will be met for each dog. These are not hillbillies raising coon hounds in barrels, feeding them meat scraps, but rather, they are true PROFESSIONALS who care deeply about dogs. Are there a few bad seeds?... sure, but that would be your fault if you didn't do your research and placed your dog with one of these guys. The trainer I am using socializes each dog and has fun time with each dog every day...

We as a society have elevated our dogs to the status of humans. While I love each of my dogs and enjoy spending as much time with them as possible, I know that they are animals and that they are very adaptable. We send our kids off to boot camp without hesitation but we squirm when we think of sending a DOG out to be propoerly trained. We'd rather excuse poor performance and shotty manners because of OUR inability to enforce commands and dedicate the time needed to train rather than seperate from our "friend" for a short amount of time to make them good citizens and/or field companions. I've trained more dogs in the last 20 years than most guys will in 2 life times. I myself, even took in dogs to be trained during the late 80's and early 90's. These dogs lived as if they were one of my dogs. I sent them home knowing they were further along than they ever would have been without my help. I took pride in what I accomplished with each and every dog I laid my hand over. I know those same feelings reside in the majority of trainers. If I could somehow shake out the time, I would train my latest pup myself. This is the 1st time that I've sent a dog off to a pro for the full spectrum of training. I've used a pro in the past only to work through specific issues, but I know what level of performance that I need and demand from my dogs and unfortunatley at the point I am at in my life with my business and personal duties, I cannot begin to kid myself that I will provide the amount of training time needed to bring her along at a reasonable timetable. I'd be doing a greater disservice to her by NOT sending her off to achieve what her abilities will allow. The amount of time they will be gone is a blip in their entire life... but the enjoyment you recieve will immediatley be given and paid back over their entire life.

Again in closing as I've stated in both posts, do the work and training yourself if possible. You will enjoy the fruits of your labor. If you absolutley cannot find the time or have no resources or ability to do the trianing yourself, do both of you a favor and send him off to be "schooled" properly.

Good Luck!

Ken

[duckbuster]

LABS, I couldn't agree more.

My father-in-law has had a Lab by his side for the past 40 years. Never did a dam thing with any of them. They were either naturally nice or total screw ups. 3 have been pretty descent, 2 have been total misfits.

He worked 45 years at his job so that he could put all 5 kids thru school but yet he calls me out for sending my dog away. He believes that I am being cruel and mean to the dog.

This is how I present it to him now a days. I tell him he spent a lot of money educating his kids. My dog is an extension of my family and all I'm doing is futhering the education of my dog. I alone can not do this so I send her to the instructor/teacher.

LABS is 100% correct when he states that dogs on the truck get more training than the average owner can give a dog.

I agree with both LABS & BLACKJACK when they mention the rewards of training your own dog. Keep this in mind when doing this, there is a huge difference between training a Gun dog & a trial/hunt test dog.

Weigh all of your options and ask yourself some pointed question as to what you truely want to accomplish. Once you have your answer go after it with everything you can give!!!

GOOD LUCK & HAVE FUN!!!!!!!!!!

[BLACKJACK]

Quote:

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This is how I present it to him now a days. I tell him he spent a lot of money educating his kids. My dog is an extension of my family and all I'm doing is futhering the education of my dog. I alone can not do this so I send her to the instructor/teacher.

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Good point, I never thought of it that way!!

Labs, I'd be willing to bet that air conditioned kennels are the exception. Most that I've seen are basically many chainlink dog kennels side by side, with dog houses/indoor sleeping pads.

dahitmant, you still haven't said how much and what type of hunting you do, what your goal is, a gun dog or field trial dog. No matter what, there is no such thing as a free lunch! The more time you spend training your dog, the happier (discipline around the house and in the duck blind, on the pheasant field, etc) you will be with them.

Good luck!! Enjoy your pup!! They grow old too fast!!!