Hot off the press

[OUTDOORNUT]

not to worry b.c., that was already mentioned last year when a couple of stars missed the Chase!

[JohnMickish]

Sounds like they are going to add a road coarse race for the Busch guys in Canada, after getting rid of them a few years ago.

Limit, if 95% of the drivers aren't good at road coarses (I think you are pretty close on your statement) then don't you think those 95% arent the best drivers out there and shouldn't win the cup? Check the recent history of cup champs, all are good to great on road coarses. Hmmm, I see a trend here.......

A great driver can drive a car on any type of track, on any kind of surface, be it dirt, concrete or asphalt, turning left, right or turning right during a left hand turn.

[LMITOUT]

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don't you think those 95% arent the best drivers out there and shouldn't win the cup?

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No. That's the point I'm trying to get across. Just because those other 5% are good to great on the road courses doesn't mean they deserve to win the cup. Why? Because it's just two races out of 26. Not the breadth of the schedule by any means. It's the other 24 races where the benchmark is made for the season, and hence why I support the reason why the road courses shouldn't be in the chase.

[JohnMickish]

But those same guys also happen to be great at the other 26 races, making them the best. Good to great at 26 out of 26 races. Take guys like Big E, Stewart and Gordon. All have road wins as well as flat, banked, concrete and cookie tracks. Great drivers and champions.

We've pretty much beat this to death here by now. I'm just going to say for the record I like road coarses because it separates race car drivers from stock car drivers.

[LMITOUT]

National

Association for

Stock

Car

Auto

Racing

The name says it all....

[lawdog]

LMITOUT, you are ignoring the fact that one road race can't win them the championship, its not like its giving them something. If you aren't good enough to run on them, then you aren't good enough to be Cup champ. Improve your skills and you can be the champ, that's exactly why we NEED one in the chase.

[LMITOUT]

Again I disagree.

If you aren't good enough to run a road race doesn't mean anything in becoming the Cup Champ. Said it above a few times already, but I'll say it again....road tracks have such little impact on the rest of the season, so why then should one have a place in determining the champion? Still haven't heard a valid answer to that and still waiting.....

It IS giving those 5% an advantage. How anyone can disagree with that is beyond me. Everyone knows which drivers are better at road racing and after those few it's a huge drop off. To place a road race in the final 10 would be giving those 5% an advantage, whereas the rest of the tracks are more even par for everyone. Sure, some excel at Bristol better than others and some better at Miami, etc., but not by the margin that you see at a road course at this present time.

[LMITOUT]

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I dont believe that when you race there is such a thing as a throw away race.

Not to argue,but I have been to many different tracks in 14 states and talked to alot of teams and drivers and have never heard anyone say that they had a throw away race.

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Hmmmm. Daytona post-race Kyle Bush says, and I quote, "We knew that Sears Point and this week were going to be a mulligan week."

So, as I said before, teams know their weak tracks and just hope to get out of these races with the least amount of damage to their points.

Local yocals are going to race their guts out every night, but they aren't in the same situation as a Nascar cup team either...not by a long shot. Apples and oranges. If the local yocals drove road courses they'd have mulligans too. Driving 3/8 mile oval tracks every weekend they have no reason to have a throwaway race.

[JohnMickish]

Funny how those that are good are road racing also happen to be cup champs, and those that suck at it don't win the big trophy. Maybe those two races have more impact than you think. I don't know how those people that want the road coarses taken off the schedule can't see that.

[LMITOUT]

Well obviously it's a coincidence because the points are thrown out and they are given new points at the start of the Chase. No road course in the final 10 races so it has no bearing on determining the champion. geez.....Hello?? It's not that tough to figure out.

Oh that's right...they're not driving STOCK CARS anymore and NASCAR is changing their name too. ROFL.

As they say on PA and Dubay...>BOOOOX!

[JohnMickish]

Check the champions BEFORE the change too. Go back as far as you want to, all the champs where good in the twisties. It just goes to prove that the championship caliber drivers can do more than just turn left.

Another thought here, since there are 4 plate races at two tracks (Daytona and Dega) that are so very different with Daytona being a handling track and Dega being all body and engine, would it be safe to say that if the two road coarses have no place in NASCAR racing they the same could be said for either Daytona or Dega? It's only two races. So lets throw Daytona out too since 95% of the teams there have no chance of winning and it's just a dump shoot to finish the darn thing. It dosent have that big of an impact on the points so lets throw it out.

[lawdog]

Let me some up the argument against road races:

"I'm not good enough to win if I have to drive all the types of tracks we race, please get rid of some so I can win..."

[LMITOUT]

That would be about 38 of the 43 drivers. The ones that do best at road courses have open wheel experience and this isn't Cart, F1, or Indy...it's NASCAR. Majority rules and NASCAR knows it. It's like trying to put a square peg in a round hole and they know better than to force this issue, hence why there are only two of these type of races. More or less a side show to the remainder of the circuit schedule.

To sum up the argument for road races:

"Myself and about four others are really the only competition at this type of track so lets leave them in so I can get an easy win."

[harvey lee]

You pretty much summed it up Lawdog.Kind of like the fantasy leaque,if I could only get rid of the tracks I dont do well at.Boy could one do well. or,the catfish fish that I dont get a hook into.Boy would I catch bigger and more if I hooked them all.

Its kind of iroinic when the guys are not doing well and they say only if and the guys that are doing well say wait until the next race no matter where it is.We use to hate racing flat tracks only because we couldnt or were not smart enough chassis wise to find the right set-up.When we finally figured it out we then wanted to race them all the time.

[NAPAFISH]

Quote:

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Check the champions BEFORE the change too. Go back as far as you want to, all the champs where good in the twisties. It just goes to prove that the

championship caliber

drivers can do more than just turn left.

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Past Champs

Bobby Labonte- Not really competitive

Dale Jarrett- Same story

Matt Kenseth- Never a threat that I have seen

Kurt Busch-above average but never considered a big threat

Ill spot you Gordon and Stewart

[JohnMickish]

Kenseth is much better than his finishes, same for Busch. Stewart, Gordon and Dale Sr., very very good at it.

There have been more champs that are good at it than those that suck, which proves both of my points.

For the record, in Kenseths title year at Sears Point he started 4th and fisnished 15th, at the Glen he started 7th and finished 8th. Can't really say no real threat, not a winner but not bad to get two top tens. Isn't that what wins titles?

Busch sat on the pole led laps and had a top ten fishish this year, not to bad, eh'?

If you are not great at road coarses you still have a chance at the title so why get rid of them and if you are good at them you stand a better chance of winning the title.

[JohnMickish]

I didn't write this so don't yell at me, it came from one of the writers at yahoo.

I kind of like the elimination idea.

Five ways to change the chase for the better.

Keep the field at 10 drivers.

Only the best of the best in any sport deserve a chance to win the overall championship. Yes, leagues such as the NBA and NHL have postseasons so large that teams hovering right around -- and sometimes below -- .500 can make it into the playoffs.

But NASCAR shouldn't head that way. Only the 10 drivers who have managed to overcome every blown tire, every brush with the wall and every failing part deserve to run for the championship.

2. Place a premium on winning, such as a 50-point bonus.

Some believe that any driver who wins a race should automatically qualify for the Chase. That theory has flaws because victories come in all shapes and forms.

One driver could steal a win by stretching a tank of gas, or a road-course ringer who only drives two events a year might pull one out. That shouldn't qualify them for championship consideration.

Consistency still needs to be rewarded. If the Green Bay Packers lose more games than they win during a season, they shouldn't make the playoffs just because one of those victories came against the Super Bowl champions.

But if NASCAR gave bonuses for winning, then Jeff Gordon gets in last year based on the 150 extra points he received for winning three times.

3. Make it a real playoff.

As it stands, all 10 drivers race for 10 races and no one is eliminated from contention.

But in reality, half of those drivers don't stand a chance to win the title after the third or fourth event because they've already fallen so far behind in the points.

The 2004 Chase had a dramatic, dream ending for NASCAR, with five drivers mathematically eligible to win the title when they headed to the finale. But last year wasn't nearly as exciting, with Tony Stewart simply needing a decent top-15 run to wrap it up.

So cut the field in half after the first five races. Those bottom five are out of contention, racing only for the monetary difference between the sixth-place payout and 10th-place earnings.

That format also keeps the excitement level over the middle stretch of the Chase, where interest has been waning the past two years. But if drivers are facing elimination after the fifth race, more people will pay attention.

4. Give the Chase drivers their own points system.

Yes, it will be confusing to follow for the fans in the stands. But the current scoring system, based on an entire 43-car field, isn't really fair.

All it takes is for one or two Chase drivers to be caught in a non-Chase drivers' accident to end a championship run. It happened to Jeremy Mayfield, Ryan Newman and Stewart during the Chase opener in 2004, and to defending champion Kurt Busch last season.

They all got points for finishing very low in the field, had to play catch-up the rest of the season and never contended.

So score points on a sliding scale to the Chase drivers only, 20 points to the top finisher down to two points to the lowest. It keeps everyone from falling too far behind and gives them a chance to get back into contention in just one week.

5. Change the schedule to offer a wider variety of tracks -- including a road course -- that test the skill sets of every driver.

Start with the final qualifying race by moving it to California Speedway, giving NASCAR the increased interest it wants in the Los Angeles market. Then open the Chase the next weekend under the lights in Richmond, Va., a short track that always produces dramatic finishes.

Then go to Darlington, NASCAR's oldest superspeedway, which is a bear to master but a test to a driver's true talent. After that comes the high speeds of Charlotte, then Talladega for an anything-goes restrictor plate race.

Next is Martinsville for another short track, followed by Kansas City, the road course in Sonoma, Calif., and another fast race in Atlanta.

Then close out the season with Texas and Homestead, Fla. in a schedule that offers a little bit of everything and hits many of NASCAR's best markets.