Interesting footnote to 2005 season

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

Just watching the Sox Pride video again and I just noticed an interesting fact for the World Series Champion (I never get tired of saying that) Chicago White Sox season. Everybody probably knows that the Sox were the 5th team in history to go wire to wire and win the World Series but here is an interesting fact that points to their "small ball" or "smart ball" as Ozzie calls it. The Sox won the first game of the season 1-0 over the Indians, they also won the first game of the second half of the season after the All-Star break 1-0 over the Indians and they won the last game of the World Series 1-0. Kind of cool!

YOU CAN PUT IT ON THE BOARD...YES!

[IFallsRon]

I heard that the Sox were going to schedule all their home games this year during the day, hoping that there'd be fewer muggings, beatings, shootings around the park.

[friendlyfisher]

Funny, I heard the same thing. But as it turns out, half their fielders would still be hungover, if upright at all. So they decided to have a more night heavy schedual

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

And if the Twinkies keep up the "break neck pace" at which they are improving their 3rd place team for next year, they will be scheduling all their games on the JV field at Bemidji State College!

The "big dogs" reside at 35th and Sheilds on the southside of Chicago and yes in the baddest part of town. All the Chicago "quiche eaters reside about 8 miles north of here up in "boys town".

You know what they say, if you can't run with the big dogs...stay on the porch! YOU CAN PUT IT ON THE BOARD...YES!

[friendlyfisher]

I can always count on a good (bias or talk) reply from you windy. I am looking forward to the start of the b-ball season.

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

Thanks Friendly,

I could not dissapoint all my FM buddies up there in Twinkie-Land. The truth is, I can't pass up a shot this year while I still have crowing rights to baseball. Who knows what next year brings so I got to take my shots now. You never know if you will be "crowing" or "eating crow" next year so you got to run with the ball while you have it. Glad I did not dissapoint and as usual...YOU CAN PUT IT ON THE BOARD...YES! Windy

[friendlyfisher]

I agree, it would be fun to be in your shoes for the past couple months. THe only problem with being in your shoes is that I would have to be a sox fan and I dont think I could handle that. And you better get thoose shots in now cause it could be a nother 75+ years till you win again.

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

Friendly,

Amen to that my fishing brother! That's why Kenny Williams has been so agressive this off season, adding Thome, Macoviak and signing a bunch of arb elig players to long term contracts. We will have to see how this pans out, but you got to admit that the Pale Hose are looking good and the Injuns would have to be second with the Twinks a distant third, right? We won't even talk about the Kitties.

YOU CAN PUT IT ON THE BOARD...YES!

[friendlyfisher]

Yeah Chicago looks like the easy team to pick to win the Central. But as we all know anything can happen, if a couple key players like a starting pitcher or two go down, you will have problems. Last year everything was nice and calm(not counting the near collapse) and they went start to finnish in first place. Well when you have a team with a bunch of new guys that can play you can also have ego conflicts, especially when you start loosing a couple in a row. As a twins fan, i like our starting rotation and I am feeling ok with the team on the field. I think we are better than we where last year. What fan does'nt say that every year, right? I am mainly hoping the bears dont win the superbowl, then i will really be depressed.

by the way windy, You have to admit that Santana is better than any pitcher on your team, right? Dont give me any crazzy stats that you may dig up, or tell me who has more rings. Just tell me if you would pick him over any pitch on your team.

friendly,

[Commanche Jim]

Santana hasn't proven anything to me, other than a great REGULAR SEASON pitcher. Oswalt and Clements were great during the regular season........Not in the World Series. All Sox pitchers shined. I would take Garcia, Buehrle, Garland, or Contreras over Santana any day of the week.

[buzzsaw]

Quote:

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I would take Garcia, Buehrle, Garland, or Contreras over Santana any day of the week.

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Go home and take your medication, when you wake up... hopefully you will feel better. If your still in this state of whatever you want to call it... just re-think through as your quote is absolutely positively the most ridiculous thing I've read on this forum.

[fishyguy]

Quote:

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Santana hasn't proven anything to me, other than a great REGULAR SEASON pitcher. Oswalt and Clements were great during the regular season........Not in the World Series. All Sox pitchers shined. I would take Garcia, Buehrle, Garland, or Contreras over Santana any day of the week.

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W L ERA GS CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB SO

1 0 0.75 2 0 0 12.0 14 1 1 0 4 12

D. Jeter

A. Rodriguez

J. Posada

G. Sheffield

B. Williams

H. Matsui

M. Cairo

J. Olerud

R. Sierra

K. Lofton

The above stat line is Johan's from the 2004 Playoffs. The names above is the lineup he did this against. Below you will find the stat line from your four starters in the 2005 Playoffs. Your team may have done better but let us look at the individual stats here since there was a comparison mentioned.

W L ERA GS CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB SO

3 1 3.09 4 1 0 32.0 26 11 11 2 2 14

3 0 2.14 3 1 0 21.0 15 5 5 3 8 13

1 0 2.25 2 1 0 16.0 11 6 4 2 3 11

2 0 3.47 3 1 1 23.1 20 9 9 2 1 12

Nice stats for sure, but...

[friendlyfisher]

THanks for having my back with thoose stats, fishy

He just has diareha of the mouth.

Santana is golden

[Commanche Jim]

Fishguy,

Did you forget Santana's performances the previous 2 playoffs?

2002 Divisional Series

0-0 6.00 ERA 3 IP 3 Hits 2 Earned Runs 2 Walks

2002 LCS

0-1 10.80 ERA 3 IP 4 Hits 4 Earned Runs

2003 Divisional Series

0-1 7.04 ERA 7.2 IP 9 Hits 6 Earned Runs

And you guys would take him over our starters in the playoffs?

The stats you gave were only for the 2004 Divisional Series against a team who didn't even get to the World Series.

And wow, the Yankees only had 3 guys hitting over .278 in that series, and 5 guys hitting below .222......tough lineup.

D. Jeter NYY SS 4 19 3 6 1 0 1 4 1 4 1 .316

A. Rodriguez NYY 3B 4 19 3 8 3 0 1 3 2 1 2 .421

J. Posada NYY C 4 18 2 4 0 0 0 0 0 6 0 .222

G. Sheffield NYY RF 4 18 2 4 1 0 1 2 3 1 0 .222

B. Williams NYY CF 4 18 2 5 1 0 1 3 1 2 0 .278

H. Matsui NYY LF 4 17 3 7 1 0 1 3 3 4 0 .412

M. Cairo NYY 2B 4 14 3 3 1 0 0 1 2 5 0 .214

J. Olerud NYY 1B 4 14 2 3 2 0 0 0 1 2 0 .214

R. Sierra NYY DH 3 12 1 2 0 0 1 3 2 3 1 .167

K. Lofton NYY CF 1 4 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 .250

[Willy]

When are you going to realize that there is NO pitcher better than Santana in all of baseball right now.

You would rather have all your guys than him...fine.

I'll bet if you asked Ozzie Guillen or Kenny Williams though, their answer would differ from yours.

[rundrave]

I think windy has some quote he always says about stats and how meaningless they are, hopefully he will chime in and remind me of what it is.

Anyways heres an intersting stat I found on ESPN, Average Game Score, for the 2005 regular season.

this AGS stat = Start with 50 points. Add 1 point for each out recorded, (3 points per inning). Add 2 points for each inning completed after the 4th. Add 1 point for each strikeout. Subtract 2 points for each hit allowed. Subtract 4 points for each earned run allowed. Subtract 2 points for each unearned run allowed. Subtract 1 point for each walk.

RK____PLAYER________ TEAM___K/BB____K/9____WPCT____AGS____WHIP

1_____Johan_Santana__Min____5.29____9.25____0.696____ 62.8____0.97

4_____Mark_Buehrle___CWS____3.73____5.67____0.667____55.4____1.18

8_____Jose_Contreras_CWS____2.05____6.77____0.682____54.2____1.23

9_____Jon_Garland____CWS____2.45____4.68____0.643____53.8____1.17

11____Freddy_Garcia__CWS____2.43____5.76____0.636____53.3____1.25

Santana just happend to be #1 in the AL, and ahead of all of the sox. If anything it shows, best over all pitcher, hands down santana is better than any ace on the sox.

[Commanche Jim]

Those are great regular season stats.

All I said is that I'd take any of our guys in the PLAYOFFS over Santana. He's proved to be "Unstable" at best in the playoffs.

Unfortunately, you guys may have a tough time proving me wrong about his playoff history, unless he gets traded.

The White Sox's starting pitchers went seven innings in all four games. In the last 50 years, only three other teams got at least seven innings from their starters in each of the first four games of the World Series: 1963 Dodgers (Koufax, Podres, Drysdale, Koufax), 1992 Braves (Glavine, Smoltz, Avery, Glavine) and 2003 Yankees (Wells, Pettitte, Mussina, Clemens).

[Cicada]

Ok, Commanchie Jim, I'll put aside my Twins fan sour grapes for a second and give the Sox pitching staff kudos for going seven in all the games. They did have to show up and pick the ball up and throw it. But, then again, they were playing Houston and if I remember correctly, Houston was one of the worst if not the worst offensive teams to get to the World Series. They could have made Loshe look like a superstar.

[joe_stack20]

Santana was the number pitcher in regular season......How could you honestly not want him???? Its ok to admit he is better than any of the Sox pitchers. Numbers dont lie. Congrats on the WS title.....but honestly just use some sense. Its sickening listening to a Fan of a WS team talking about how good his team is. Well your team was number 1, last year. but you by far did not have the number 1 pitcher. HANDS DOWN!!!! We Did!

[joe_stack20]

One more thing, I bet anything that you would be more than willing trade our Bullpen for yours? Your not too strong there

[fishyguy]

Quote:

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Those are great regular season stats.

All I said is that I'd take any of our guys in the PLAYOFFS over Santana.

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Jim,

Above you state you were only referring to the playoffs. Below you will see the copy and paste of your original statement. If you meant that, you did not say it. I do believe "any day of the week" happens during the regular season, spring training and the playoffs. Speaking of spring training, anyone remember the first MLB hitter Johan faced in the major league camp. It was Griffey in his prime and he went down swinging in 3. Just signs of what was to come.

"I would take Garcia, Buehrle, Garland, or Contreras over Santana any day of the week. "

I will be back soon. I am not done with this yet.

[fishyguy]

Quote:

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Fishguy,

Did you forget Santana's performances the previous 2 playoffs?

2002 Divisional Series

0-0 6.00 ERA 3 IP 3 Hits 2 Earned Runs 2 Walks

2002 LCS

0-1 10.80 ERA 3 IP 4 Hits 4 Earned Runs

2003 Divisional Series

0-1 7.04 ERA 7.2 IP 9 Hits 6 Earned Runs

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No I didn't forget. But if we are talking about who we would rather have today I thought we could talk recent history. Did you forget Johan stats for 2002 playoffs were from the bullpen? I thought we were talking starting pitching.

Quote:

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And you guys would take him over our starters in the playoffs?

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Yep. So would each and every GM in baseball.

Quote:

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The stats you gave were only for the 2004 Divisional Series against a team who didn't even get to the World Series.

And wow, the Yankees only had 3 guys hitting over .278 in that series, and 5 guys hitting below .222......tough lineup.

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I am pretty sure the playoff stats for your team was against teams that did not make the World Series save the stats from the WS itself against a team that hits as well as my co-ed softball team.

Quote:

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D. Jeter NYY SS 4 19 3 6 1 0 1 4 1 4 1 .316

A. Rodriguez NYY 3B 4 19 3 8 3 0 1 3 2 1 2 .421

J. Posada NYY C 4 18 2 4 0 0 0 0 0 6 0 .222

G. Sheffield NYY RF 4 18 2 4 1 0 1 2 3 1 0 .222

B. Williams NYY CF 4 18 2 5 1 0 1 3 1 2 0 .278

H. Matsui NYY LF 4 17 3 7 1 0 1 3 3 4 0 .412

M. Cairo NYY 2B 4 14 3 3 1 0 0 1 2 5 0 .214

J. Olerud NYY 1B 4 14 2 3 2 0 0 0 1 2 0 .214

R. Sierra NYY DH 3 12 1 2 0 0 1 3 2 3 1 .167

K. Lofton NYY CF 1 4 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 .250

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I don't get it you talk about how this lineup can't hit. If we are going to discuss the quality of their bats shouldn't we go with that entire years stats. Otherwise wouldn't what you just posted be a testament to our pitching.

The regular season highlights for these players were

Jeter .292 23 HR

ARod .286 36 HR

Posada .272 21 HR

Sheffield .290 36 HR

Williams .262 22 HR

Matsui .298 31 HR

Cairo .292 6 HR

Olerud .259 9 HR

Sierra .244 17 HR

Lofton .275 3 HR

[rundrave]

fishyguy, dont take the bait, he will debate all day to no success just painting pretty pictures with stats that will always favor the sox, he just wants to get his world series licks in while he can, and kick us while were down

in other words dont waste your time he will never be satisfied.

He will get a few refreshers this year again though when Santana will own the sox just like he did last year.

Did I mention Cy Young count: Santana 1, entire sox staff ZERO

[fishyguy]

Thanks run, but I'm good. I enjoy taking his bait as I know he would never be able to set the hook on this one. I know what Jim is all about and have fun with it.

[joe_stack20]

What he said is just plain stupid. Since he won the WS...he thinks his pitchins staff is the best, when in fact its the bats that won it.. Dude you need to stop and smell the roses.